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Electronic Parking Brake potential issue

19K views 30 replies 20 participants last post by  OBDad 
#1 ·
I think the electronic parking brake is whiz-bang neat. However, I got into a situation this past weekend that scared me. I was down a dirt road dropping my kayak off for a solo float down 7 miles of river. The "road" runs paralell to the river right at the edge and "parking" is across the road on a steep hill. I backed up the hillside into one of the pull-offs, put the brake on (duh, I was parked on a steep hill pointint toward the river just across the road), got out and did my thing. When I went to move the car, I got in, started the car, tried to drive off, but the brake was on. Oh, that's right, the seat belt has to be fastened before the electronic parking brake will release. So, I reach up and the seat belt won't pull out. It's retractor is locked. I panic. I try the passenger side. No go. I finally presume that they're locked because I'm on too steep of a hill and it thinks I need my seat belt not to extend for my safety.

Here I sit, can't drive away because I put the parking brake on because I was parked on a steep hill and I can't get the parking brake off because I can't get the seat belt fastened because I'm parked on a steep hill. You see the circular logic here?

What's the solution? Don't park on a steep hill? Don't use the parking break when you're parked on a steep hill? Fasten the seat belt behind you when you're driving on a steep hill? Stay home and watch TV instead of going out into the wild to do all the things Subaru advertises that they're made for?

Other solutions or ideas?

Oh, I got out of the situation by just putting it into drive and powering down the hill, sliding the rear tires until I was more level and the seat belt would release.

When I say "steep hill," I mean so steep that the 170 hp would not pull me any farther up the hill (45 degrees or more).

Thanks for listening,
Denver
 
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#4 ·
ah-ha

Thanks. I figured user error was involved somehow. I had pushed the button to no avail. Given that I was about 11 road miles from civilization, I paniced a bit. I must not have been holding the brake when I pushed the button. I tested it at lunch and it worked fine. Gosh ... there's even a label RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE BUTTON that explains it. I'll try not to panic next time.
 
#20 ·
Thanks. I figured user error was involved somehow. I had pushed the button to no avail. Given that I was about 11 road miles from civilization, I paniced a bit. I must not have been holding the brake when I pushed the button. I tested it at lunch and it worked fine. Gosh ... there's even a label RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE BUTTON that explains it. I'll try not to panic next time.

Ummmm...You push the button to engage the parking brake.
You PULL the handle to disengage the parking brake (while pressing on the brake pedal).

Maybe you were confused when you posted the above statement, but then again, maybe not. If you were pressing the e-brake button, I am not surprised that the brake did not release. This is sort of like shifting to Drive and wondering why the car will not go into Reverse.
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
#5 ·
The electrci brake uses the same procedures that you use on a manual parking brake. Press the brake pedal before you engage the or disengage the parking brake.


And yes i've gotten caught in the seat belts a few times on steep hills, its slightly annoying.


For homework re-read the owners manual, then submit a ten page book report :)



nipper
 
#6 ·
Brake

Can't wait to read about the first poor soul that has to crank the brake off with 250 turns.. hope it's not me

Think about this, if your battery dies. Or if you get towed, don't most cars have a way to release the brake that the tow truck drivers can do easily from outside the car?
 
#7 ·
Re: Brake

schipperke said:
Can't wait to read about the first poor soul that has to crank the brake off with 250 turns.. hope it's not me

Think about this, if your battery dies. Or if you get towed, don't most cars have a way to release the brake that the tow truck drivers can do easily from outside the car?
It would be under "towing" in the owners manual i magine. Usually jumping the battery to just energize the necassary circuit will get it to releaxe.


nipper
 
#8 ·
Re: Brake

schipperke said:
Can't wait to read about the first poor soul that has to crank the brake off with 250 turns.. hope it's not me

Think about this, if your battery dies. Or if you get towed, don't most cars have a way to release the brake that the tow truck drivers can do easily from outside the car?
They put the dolly wheels under the rear tires if towing on the ground or just drag them up on to a flatbed. no need to release the brake. If you have ever watched any of those repo man shows, they will drag a car for a couple of blocks if they have to to get to a safe place to make a better hook up.
 
#9 ·
Re: ah-ha

Denver1911 said:
Thanks. I figured user error was involved somehow. I had pushed the button to no avail. Given that I was about 11 road miles from civilization, I paniced a bit. I must not have been holding the brake when I pushed the button. I tested it at lunch and it worked fine. Gosh ... there's even a label RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE BUTTON that explains it. I'll try not to panic next time.
HAHA, that happened to me too!!! I was parked on a steep hill and just did not understand WHY the brake would not release. gotta press the brake in while pulling the e-brake lever :) I never felt so dumb because the instructions were right there! LOL!!!
 
#10 ·
I park on a down slope to the house and I use the hand brake all the time. However, now it has been replace with the electronic parking brake. In the manual on page 7-34 and 7-35 it is called an Electronic parking brake. On page 7-36 the manual mention Emergency Brake. Which years ago I call the hand brake. The manual speak of wear and tear on using the system and not to use it except in an emergency.

Than would it be correct to say that using the electronic hand brake while underway it become an emergency brake and when parking it is an electronic hand brake? If you use it underway you will wear brake parts (as stated on page 7-36) where if parking you would not wear out brake parts (as stated on page 7-36) by using it?
 
#11 ·
Sir Sawgrass said:
I park on a down slope to the house and I use the hand brake all the time. However, now it has been replace with the electronic parking brake. In the manual on page 7-34 and 7-35 it is called an Electronic parking brake. On page 7-36 the manual mention Emergency Brake. Which years ago I call the hand brake. The manual speak of wear and tear on using the system and not to use it except in an emergency.

Than would it be correct to say that using the electronic hand brake while underway it become an emergency brake and when parking it is an electronic hand brake? If you use it underway you will wear brake parts (as stated on page 7-36) where if parking you would not wear out brake parts (as stated on page 7-36) by using it?
Sounds like a lawyer and a contract.

Before 4 wheel disc brakes there was a handbrake or foot brake that was a parking brake. It used the service brake shoes to hold the car in place (back in ancient times there were dedicated brake shoes for a true emergency brake).

After 4 wheel dicsc, there was a small drum in the center of the rotor, so in essence we are back to a fully independent brake system (shoes drums cables).

The manual isnt helping clairify things. Neither brake system is great at stopping the car, but will hold the car when parked and protect the transmission.

The last thing you should worry about is applying the parking brake or emergency brake while the car is moving if needed. brake parts are much cheaper then body parts or medical bills.


nipper
 
#12 ·
Subaru is just saying that the electronic parking could be used in an emergency to slow the car if the brake pedal doesn't work. Damage might occur, but in an complete brake failure emergency you won't care. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I imagine it's essentially an independent fail safe backup emergency brake system in addition to its more pedestrian life as a parking brake to protect the transmission and prevent a parked car from rolling.
 
#13 ·
nipper said:

Before 4 wheel disc brakes there was a handbrake or foot brake that was a parking brake. It used the service brake shoes to hold the car in place (back in ancient times there were dedicated brake shoes for a true emergency brake).
Just to clarify so nobody gets hurt or hurts somebody, cable operated parking brakes were never designed to be 'emergency' brakes. They were and still are just 'parking' brakes, despite the fact that manufactures, dealers and some mechanics inappropriately use that term. There is no doubt that they will slow the car down, but an actual emergency brake is comparable to service brakes in operation.
The only hydraulic brake system that I know of with an 'emergency' brake is a Lucas-Girling system that incorporates an external chamber with an internal diaphragm and spring similar to that in air brake systems. It uses pressurized fluid to release the spring and thus the brake and is operated by a hand valve similar to that of an air brake park valve. Those of you who have operated a larger uhaul type vehicle may have seen this.
James
 
#14 ·
highest_vision said:


Just to clarify so nobody gets hurt or hurts somebody, cable operated parking brakes were never designed to be 'emergency' brakes. They were and still are just 'parking' brakes, despite the fact that manufactures, dealers and some mechanics inappropriately use that term. There is no doubt that they will slow the car down, but an actual emergency brake is comparable to service brakes in operation.
The only hydraulic brake system that I know of with an 'emergency' brake is a Lucas-Girling system that incorporates an external chamber with an internal diaphragm and spring similar to that in air brake systems. It uses pressurized fluid to release the spring and thus the brake and is operated by a hand valve similar to that of an air brake park valve. Those of you who have operated a larger uhaul type vehicle may have seen this.
James
In the sense of automobile terminology, it is called either an emergency brake or parking brake (though I have not seen it called an emergency brake in while). It came from the early days of hydraulic brakes, when the hoses cylinders and other associated parts were relativley fragile. The first brakes were mechanical brakes, so the cable system was trusted more they the hydraulic system.

I havent heard of a brake failure on a modern car that left it unstopable in a long time.

nipper
 
#15 ·
You are correct that people use the terms interchangeably, but it is incorrect to do so. My first car was one of which you speak of. Our use of the terms won't change physics and that is what led to the change. The laws are very specific on this and state the requirements for secondary brake function. I don't know that any laws specifically state functional requirements for emergency brakes as they are not specified. Only parking brakes have functional specifications. However, these laws only go back to the early 1970s, so like you said they except early single circuit hydraulic braking systems, and they specifically exempt later single circuit systems.
I guess, to be short, there aren't any (legal) emergency brake systems per DOT.
James
 
#16 ·
nipper said:


Sounds like a lawyer and a contract.

Before 4 wheel disc brakes there was a handbrake or foot brake that was a parking brake. It used the service brake shoes to hold the car in place (back in ancient times there were dedicated brake shoes for a true emergency brake).

After 4 wheel dicsc, there was a small drum in the center of the rotor, so in essence we are back to a fully independent brake system (shoes drums cables).

The manual isnt helping clairify things. Neither brake system is great at stopping the car, but will hold the car when parked and protect the transmission.

The last thing you should worry about is applying the parking brake or emergency brake while the car is moving if needed. brake parts are much cheaper then body parts or medical bills.


nipper

After reading the posts here, I understand the wear on brake parts are from using it underway in case of trying to avoiding an accident, not from parking.



My thanks to nipper, nagarjuna, highest_visionall.
 
#18 ·
I have intermittent failures of the electronic brake a few times a month. I just carry around a good set of wheel chocks and forget about it since the problem can't be replicated on demand. :rolleyes:

Thankfully, it never leaves me stranded. For some reason it will always release, but sometimes after releasing the brake the brake indicator light flashes continuously so I know it's not going to cooperate come time to park. Then I just find the most level spot I can find, leave it in gear and put down wheel chocks. Kind of embarrassing to have to do to a year old car, but about par for the course for my OB.
 
#23 ·
Electronic Brake Failure or Malfunction




Seriously, several times a month? I just bought a 2015 Outback premium 2.5i, which I love, but saw today that the owners manual (7-41) is replete with dire warnings about potential electronic brake system failure, dangers, and need for chocks -- none of which the sales guy mentioned in his otherwise thorough session on internal controls and features. Are others experiencing such frequent or even infrequent brake failure issues? We plan on taking our OB to the very hilly BVI when we retire there in a year or 2, and are not interested in cliff diving with it into the Caribbean.
 
#19 ·
when i was a kid i had a car with leaky brake cylinders. couple of times i didn't refill the brake fluid in time and the car would surprise me with no brakes. so, being the dumb kid that i was, i kept driving by using the hand brake as my braking system.

one of many dumb things i've done.

sometimes i wonder how i made it this far.
 
#22 ·
Hummm..
On my OB with the parking brake set if I put the car in gear and step on the gas the parking brake will release on it's own

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QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";} </style> <![endif]--> The electronic parking brake system has an automatic release function.
The parking brake will be automatically released by depressing the accelerator pedal. However, the automatic release function does not operate under the following conditions.

Any door (other than the trunk lid or rear gate) is open.

The driver’s seat belt is not fastened.
And yes the seat belt has to be fastened.. This can be a gotcha:eek:
 
#25 ·
I haven't had any problems with my '12 or '14 but I'd still prefer a handbrake.
Cars are getting to electronically technical and problems are getting to be more common.
For something as simple and necessary as a parking brake I say keep it simple and purely mechanical.

John
 
#28 ·
I don't know how true this is. I was just reading up on the E-brake, and a UK site says you need to go to a dealer to have a tech back off the rear calipers to replace the pads.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/Electronic-parking-brake-explained
Electronic parking brake tech - Automotive Service Professional

And some of them seem to auto apply when the car is off, or the battery dies.
It's true, unfortunately, unless you have a way to apply Subaru Select Monitor commands. Pretty crazy. The mechanical parts of replacement is very, very straightforward looking at the repair manual:

It's true that you need to remove the caliper assembly on the rears first. You then pop off the brake rotors, which double as parking brake drums (the inside of the rotors). From there on mechanically it's pretty much the same as any drum brake job to replace the shoes.

Now here's where the DIYer likely would run into trouble: The factory repair manual does indicate a Subaru Select Monitor tool needs to be leveraged to invoke "Parking Brake Removal Mode" which releases the cable tension prior to doing the job. Then there's a "Break-in Parking Brake Drive Mode" to apply after installation, and then there's an adjustment that needs to happen before finally applying "Force Sensor Calibration Mode". Yikes. Well, chances are you'll never need to replace the brake shoes for the parking brake though.

I've seen threads for using a OBD-II to USB cable and some laptop software that has SSM mode but I'm not sure how viable it is for something like this.
 
#27 ·
Mine never "auto-applied."

I did like the pulsing they do when used as an actual emergency brake. It Scared the crap out of me though the first time I did it. Basically the E-brake has an "anti-lock" feature when being used as an emergency brake.

Personally I prefer a good old hand brake, which I now have on the FXT.>:)
 
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