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2014 Outback Limited rust

11K views 28 replies 21 participants last post by  pcray1231 
#1 ·
I want to upload a few photos of my 2014 Outback rust on exhaust pipes and muffler.
I was surprised to find some rusty spots on the floor of my garage, but when I looked under the car I was even more surprised to see the source. I brought it the local dealer (Mitchell Subaru, Canton CT).
Dealer's technician said with the smile that they are seeing it every day and the best way to address it is to contact Subaru direct.
I contacted them, sent them my photos and after few conversations I'd been told, that the state I am living is a problem (Connecticut in this matter). Subaru explained that states like CT, MA, NY using road treatment during the winter that cause corrosion (really?).
I replied that this is my 4-th Subaru and I never seen anything like this.
I asked them if those states are not that good for Subaru, what the good ones?
Isn't it that in those states Subaru advertizing most actively? Wow.

I went to the different dealership last Saturday, just to get a different opinion. They confirmed me that Subaru will not deal with the rust like this until it will rust through. Then if it still under warranty they may do something. Tech said, sorry I understand, but I can't help, I work for Subaru.
 

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#2 ·
Looks pretty normal for harsh, salty, sandy winter roads. It's just steel pipe and relatively cheap to replace when needed. I'd be more concerned with body components.
 
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#4 ·
That looks like a lot more than the expected surface rust on the (supposedly 409 grade stainless steel) exhaust that most OEMs use. I live in downstate IL and my exhaust does not look that bad. I regularly wash the OB in the winter to hopefully avoid such damage. A few more years of exposure to ice melt products used in CT and you will have to replace your exhaust.
 
#5 ·
My 2012 isn't has heavy on the piping! Oddly, our exhaust are stainless, which isn't totally rust proof, it only resists unless you drop down to like 304 or whatever it is. My Borla on my GMC looked similar, but that was after 8 or 9 years.


I also see lots of salt residue on the frame and such, and I'd be running the car through a wash that does a undercarriage wash/spray during the winter. That or climb down with a pressurized nozzle and give it a good rinsing. The past few winters have been colder than normal and I'll swear they're dumping for salt and brine on the roads than they have in years past, which might be what your seeing.
 
#7 ·
My 02 F-150 has way more rust underneath -- on the exhaust system (pipes-muffler etc.) ( and everywhere else under there) --and all is well -- it has 75k on it -- Methinks you may be a little over concerned -- that is unless Subaru makes their exaust systems less durable than Fords' -- I think Subaru will make stuff better than FORD . I hope I am right, as I have a new Outback 2.5 limited on order -- due next week.
Notice there is no rust anywhere else under there. The exhaust system heats up and cools down in radical temp swings-- the steel that they use nowadays in exhaust systems is much better than used in past times
Just my opinion -- please don't be offended.
This is one great website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#10 ·
From the photos, it appears the stainless steel coating on the carbon steel pipe was worn off by the abrasive effects of sand, rocks, saline solution and other traction improvement substances applied to a winter road. In other words, the stainless was abraded off by a constant blast of 60 mph sand.
Pretty sure no exhaust pipe can withstand that abuse without rusting. This appears to be a normal wear item does not appear to be a warranty claim to me.
A clearer picture of what happened might be gleaned from a photo of the opposite side of the pipe.
 
#12 ·
As this past winter was long and required a lot of sand and salting, that will have an impact of protective finishes.....looks fairly normal for a N.E. Car. Also, it makes a huge difference as to whether or not you car is housed in a garage because of moisture interacting with the accumulated salts.
 
#13 ·
After reading your post, I went out and looked under my 2014 Limited, and it looks similar. I'm blown away at how rusty this 1 year old car is. I also looked under my wife's 2008 Honda Accord, and there was no rust anywhere. I've included pictures of the Outback. We live in Northern Virginia, which doesn't exactly match up with their theory that the problem is isolated to CT, MA, NY. Looks like I'll be heading to the dealer about this shortly...
 

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#14 ·
Again, I'm not seeing a problem here. As someone else said, it looks bad but that's all it is..cosmetic.
 
#15 ·
I believe that Subaru has tried to 'cut corners' for some of their more recent model-years. It seems they are using lower-quality stainless for the exhaust system and using lower-quality coatings (paint) on the undercarrage.

Only time will tell if these modern Subarus will last 15+ years without falling apart.

I replaced cat-back exhaust system on a 2000 Dodge truck and the removed pipes have been sitting in my back yard for 15 years.... The pipes in my back yard do not look nearly as rusty as the above photos on a 1-year old Subaru.
 
#16 ·
I live in a very snowy area where much salt is used on the roads. I also park my car indoors in an unheated garage. I make it a point of getting the undercarriage (only) treated annually at Krown just before winter.

I had a look underneath yesterday as part of my annual inspection and noted that things look pretty good after two brutal winters. I also noted that a couple of bolts which had clearly been missed by Krown were corroded big time but everything else looked good.

Interestingly, my exhaust pipes look much less corroded than the Op's which I found odd - I would have expected to see much the same as the Op's. Perhaps a bad batch?
 
#17 ·
So some states like to use magnesium chloride and/or calcium chloride as they can be more effective for snow removal, but from a corrosion point of view, they are much worse than sodium chloride (rock salt - pretty rare nowadays, I imagine) - the main issue is the deliquescence point of those salts - they form and stay as a brine down to really low relative humidities, which is bad news from a corrosion point of view. I haven't lived in the snow belt for many years (grew up in MA) but even down here, always get an undercarriage wash after snow storms to clean things off.


did a quick search and it looks like that might be the case
Mechanics blame winter road treatment for damage to cars - WFSB 3 Connecticut
 
#18 ·
DrD's post reminds me of an interesting anecdote a friend shared with me this week. He lives in a rural area on a dirt road. He noticed a truck spraying the road with calcium hydroxide last fall and also noticed one of his neighbours following the truck as it passed by. It turns out that the municipality where he lives uses this solution as a binding agent on dirt roads(!). CaOH is very caustic and if you drive over it when still wet, it can cause some brutal damage to unprotected metal surfaces. I'm told his neighbour's brake lines corroded through within a couple of weeks of the incident, and this was a car that was less than one year old!

Perhaps the Op drove on a road that had recently been treated in some similar fashion without realizing it thus causing the premature corrosion.
 
#19 ·
They might have got something on their car that caused the issue (I am betting it was calcium chloride), but it's unlikely calcium hydroxide would do it (Ca(OH)2) - it's caustic, but not that bad - pH of a saturated solution is around 12.6 - it's actually the primary component of the pore solution in concrete. (steel does very well in alkaline solutions - it's aluminum that has issues in that neck of the woods... that's why you can use carbon steel as reinforcing bar in concrete - it does great until the concrete carbonates (pH drops down to a little over 8 due to interaction with atmospheric CO2) or chloride reaches the reinforcement, then it's pretty much all over and you get substantial cracking due to corrosion of the rebar.


Odds are they were using calcium chloride as a dust mitigation material for the dirt road (since that's another use for it) - calcium hydroxide would just be a dust (it's not very hygroscopic, whereas calcium chloride is)
 
#20 ·
All my cars looked like that after a year or two (I live just north of Boston). Mostly its surface rust on the piping and it will take years to eat through the metal. Most likely it will first rust out from inside the piping from condensation and not from this surface rust, but I usually never keep them long enough to see what happens. The only car I had to replace exhaust on was my old 06 FX35 - after about 7 years of New England roads. I just make it a habit to power wash the bottom of the car after each major snow storm to wash away the salt. I also touch thigs up in the summer with rust inhibitor sprays, etc.
 
#22 ·
More rusting problems found.

The new finding is on rear door struts. Talked to the dealer and the answer was as usual. It still works, you need to talk to Subaru.

Here is Subaru reply:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> Hi,
As I mentioned, surface rust is not considered a defect/not covered under warranty. Corrosion would be considered a defect. The retailer has confirmed they inspected the undercarriage of your car and it was surface rust. If you think it needs another inspection, definitely take it back to your retailer.


Kind regards,
M.
Customer/Retailer Services
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#24 ·
The new finding is on rear door struts. Talked to the dealer and the answer was as usual. It still works, you need to talk to Subaru.

Here is Subaru reply:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> Hi,
As I mentioned, surface rust is not considered a defect/not covered under warranty. Corrosion would be considered a defect. The retailer has confirmed they inspected the undercarriage of your car and it was surface rust. If you think it needs another inspection, definitely take it back to your retailer. Manufacturers aren't obliged to replace something that is working properly under warranty, just because it looks bad.


Kind regards,
M.
Customer/Retailer Services
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You must live very close to the ocean. A friend of mine who lives in a coastal town says he has to spray silicone lubricant on ANY metal exposed to the air outside to keep surface rust from occurring. He even has to spray aluminum because even though it doesn't rust, it corrodes in ocean air.
 
#23 ·
is there any sort of lubricant or rust prevention or spray of something of the sort to apply underneath that wont affect anything negatively? im totally ignorant on the subject, someone else mentioned spraying wd-40 on everything thats getting rusty but im hesitant to spray anything without knowing the effect on moving and/or heating parts.....
 
#25 ·
The reason Subaru, and allot of other manufacturers don't paint or coat such parts is because when the surface rust occurs, it actually becomes the protective coating. Sounds counterintuitive, but it's true. It might look very bad to the uninitiated, but it is normal.
 
#26 ·
A manufacturer isn't obligated to replace a part that's working properly, just because it looks ugly. Unless it's a part that is supposed to compliment the looks of the vehicle, like a side mirror where its paint prematurely chips, causes the mirror to rust, and look bad.
 
#29 ·
This is wrong. I'm a metallurgist. (The internet is wrong, I have to correct this! lol)

Stainless steel has Cr in it. There are many different levels of "stainlessness" (we make around 1000 different grades), but all of them will corrode in severe enough conditions. Some stand up at temperature better, some in certain acids while others in different acids, etc. Some would be very difficult indeed to form rust on.

The way Cr prevents/delays rust is it forms a Cr oxide layer on the surface. Notice, forms an oxide. That means it corrodes, and the corrosion creates a barrier between the air/water and the steel underneath. So this is where your myth likely originates. But Cr oxide is a "passive" layer, meaning it's impervious and stable (doesn't react with normal atmospheric conditions like moisture and oxygen). Those different grades. Yeah, straight Cr oxide can be dissolved in various acids or conditions, but when you add other elements you can play with changing the composition of the surface layer which makes it not react with certain things. You can also purposely treat the surface with certain acids to thicken the Cr-oxide layer. It's called "passivation".

But red rust is iron oxide. It does not form a passive layer, and in fact, catalyzes the formation of more iron oxide. It accelerates corrosion. If it hasn't penetrated deeply yet, you can extend the life of the part by lightly sanding the red rust off to expose fresh metal (whereas with a passive layer, such sanding would reduce the life). Even better if you polish it afterwards (eliminating minor pits and scratches, which act like pits). If it's already penetrated and sanding leaves pits, well, it's too late, it's just a matter of time.

Now, with a little surface rust, even with no maintenance, it is unclear whether it will penetrate on these parts enough to become a real problem in the lifetime of the car. It will penetrate, how quickly is the question.

I don't know what grade Subaru uses for various parts. 409, if that's what they use, is not a particularly stainless stainless. But it is cheap, and it is ferritic, so it stands up to temperature ok. It's very good in humidity and fair in salt, nitric acid, and sodium hydroxide. It's terrible in sulfuric, phosphoric, and acetic acid (as are most of the straight Cr ferritics). It is very soft, so it'll be easy to form in bending operations and such, which is I'm sure why it's used heavily in exhausts. It's also readily weldable.

On my car, anyway, the rust is most severe around the bolts and such. If the bolts were clean looking and the metal around terrible, I'd say Subaru was using TOO good of bolts and getting a galvanic effect. But the bolts themselves rust worse, so likely the other way around (still the galvanic effect, though). Properly matching metals is important and I think Subaru could probably use a lesson.
 
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