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Old 01-03-2013, 05:02 AM   #451 (permalink)
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Its time they need to know. To file a complaint to the NHTSA use link. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/Vehicl...nt/index.xhtml

The squeaky wheel gets the oil.
JOEM...I saw your complaint on NHTSA...I think it's good you listed it with them. However, the complaint shows you currently own a 2012...I thought you traded the 2012 for a 2013?

Keep us posted...we need to stick together on this potential design flaw/safety issue. I may do the same depending on the outcome of my next visit to the dealer.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:22 AM   #452 (permalink)
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It is a safety issue. The cars suddenly jerk into the direction you are driving into when you are turning the wheel about 10 deg's. Now add snow or an icy road it starts to head strait on the turn making it an obnoxious and dangerous driving experience.

My 2012 was bud from 4 miles and received 3 to 4 wheel alignments from two different dealers racking up 250 miles to and from and about 12 gallons of gas. Lets not even put a price on the lost time. This 2013 was 50% better but worsened after about 500 miles. There are no potholes here at all and my wife drives like and OLD LADY with a walker. There is no reason a wheel alignment should go bad in one month or 500 miles and it should not be 50% ok from the factory. The steering is also way too tight for an small SUV and any car should return to center. My 8000 LB Dodge and 06 Crown Vic's steering and handling far surpass these cars and I can drive 1000 miles in either and only have to stop to take a leak, not a nap.

I should not have to spend a dime out of my pocket to modify and/or repair a BRAND NEW CAR for it to perform properly! I have been procrastinating bringing this in for a w/a since it is 150 mile round trip to the new dealer and dread to have them Jerk My Chain. In NYS the frirst 2 years of a cars life they get a NEW CAR inspection sticker at a discount with the intention and expectation that the car came from the factory Perfect and needs nothing should need attention. Sadly in NY they concentrate only on lights, brakes and emissions but there is no test drive to check for crucial items.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:07 PM   #453 (permalink)
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JOEM...I saw your complaint on NHTSA...I think it's good you listed it with them. However, the complaint shows you currently own a 2012...I thought you traded the 2012 for a 2013?

Keep us posted...we need to stick together on this potential design flaw/safety issue. I may do the same depending on the outcome of my next visit to the dealer.
Two reasons. First it asked for the first and earliest time you had the issue. Second, I didn't want the new cars VIN listed on the internet so it pops up when a prospective buyer does a search. I had that happen on my 2002 Excursion. It showed on a carfax that I had listed the car for sale one year prior on Cars dot com. Why?

We need to get more complaints on the matter onto that website so something is done. They might not read all since there are double and triples of the same complaint.
Sadly, I will repeat myself. I feel allot of the problem is the car is being made in the states now and our national prides flame is fading and is presenting all the annoying problems that over the last few years pushed me toward German and Japanese MODELS that were built overseas.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:11 PM   #454 (permalink)
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I can certainly understand why you might prefer truck-like steering to car-like steering. I am just the opposite, and hence I think the OB steering is excellent. But I respect those with different opinions & needs.

As a general rule, it's good to understand the underpinnings of a vehicle, at least in simple terms, to understand what you are getting into. The OB is based on a car platform, not a truck platform. They drive differently. If the OB drove like a SUV/truck (or a Crown Vic) I would have stayed far, far away from it. I'm hoping Subaru never goes there, but only they can decide what customer they are going after, and design accordingly.

BTW, if you buy German, be prepared for even firmer, more responsive steering.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:29 PM   #455 (permalink)
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I can certainly understand why you might prefer truck-like steering to car-like steering. I am just the opposite, and hence I think the OB steering is excellent. But I respect those with different opinions & needs.

As a general rule, it's good to understand the underpinnings of a vehicle, at least in simple terms, to understand what you are getting into. The OB is based on a car platform, not a truck platform. They drive differently. If the OB drove like a SUV/truck (or a Crown Vic) I would have stayed far, far away from it. I'm hoping Subaru never goes there, but only they can decide what customer they are going after, and design accordingly.

BTW, if you buy German, be prepared for even firmer, more responsive steering.
Dude, this is not my first time in the rodeo and not my first new car. Your missing the point of the bad steering issues many of us are having and what this tread was intended for. You are a lucky one and I am very happy for you.

Also, I would expect firm steering in a German car and i have owned them before and they were superb. I have owned about 20 cars in the last 28 years and this last two are scariest.

The discussion is over.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:29 PM   #456 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgeh View Post
I can certainly understand why you might prefer truck-like steering to car-like steering. I am just the opposite, and hence I think the OB steering is excellent. But I respect those with different opinions & needs.

As a general rule, it's good to understand the underpinnings of a vehicle, at least in simple terms, to understand what you are getting into. The OB is based on a car platform, not a truck platform. They drive differently. If the OB drove like a SUV/truck (or a Crown Vic) I would have stayed far, far away from it. I'm hoping Subaru never goes there, but only they can decide what customer they are going after, and design accordingly.

BTW, if you buy German, be prepared for even firmer, more responsive steering.
With all due respect, but as JOEM pointed out...you are missing the point big time. No one here is complaining about firm and responsive steering...as a matter of fact, most of us would welcome it. We are talking about DEAD ON CENTER, NON-SELF CENTERING, MIND OF ITS OWN, WANDERING, DRIVING AS IF ON A PIPE...STEERING!!! How does that sound like we don't want firm & responsive steering? Or more for that matter?

I have driven other sedan based SUV's...and none of them drove like my '13 Outback. This car does not drive normally and is actually dangerous at times. So take your "based on a sedan" theory and throw it in the garbage. I have driven SUV's built on full frames and they didn't drive this way either. I have also driven classic cars with stock suspensions that didn't drive like this either.

It's NOT NORMAL!!!

PERIOD.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #457 (permalink)
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JOEM:
I agree with Gerogeh and I just sold one M3 BMW and one Super Duty Diesel.
The steering is precise not tight. What is tight? The steering is weighted on the heavy side not overboosted.

If you don't like precise steering and you had a 12 why would expect a 13 to be dramatically different.

There is day and night difference between my Super Duty and M3 but they both had one thing in common, dynamic stability because they were aligned correctly. My OB is within spec but I totally disagree with Subaru's specs for alignment of this platform. It makes NO SENSE what so ever to have any positive toe front or rear.

That is what causes the drift and wander, caster is good on all the ones I have seen reported and camber doesn't contribute to self centering but toe certainly does and mine is certainly not right yet.

I was to get it aligned the day we had 10" of snow so that was a show stopper and I am going to get it aligned to have toe set to 0 degrees or slightly negative which in all likelihood will return this platform to what is should have from the beginning.

I for one don't see this as a safety issue at all but we live in a free country so do whatever you please.

My opinion is as good or bad as the next person with one exception. I was trained to understand, test and evaluate vehicle dynamics from cars to aircraft so I have a little better knowledge than most but there are Subaru drivers out that forgot more than I will ever know about OBs.

What I know for sure is this vehicle is dynamically unstable and diverges from the thrust vector of the platform.

I hope you can get your OB tweaked the way you want it. I was pissed the day before I had planned to leave to go south the snow came and everything was closed making this alignment not possible until spring.

I bet your OB is within Subaru specs which I totally disgree with and in my opinion are wrong.

Manufacturers don't always get it right and this spec is the same as it was for the MY10-12 so how can you change the suspension geometry and not have a change to the correct alignment? It makes no sense...

Good luck to us all...
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:24 PM   #458 (permalink)
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I've just received a letter from Subaru North America regarding the Lane Wandering issue that I, too, have experienced.

Quote:
Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for your inquiry. Our research team of top professionals have come back with the following suggestion:

You need to learn how to drive.

Thank you,

Subaru North America
Well now ... wasn't expecting THAT
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #459 (permalink)
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JOEM:


Manufacturers don't always get it right and this spec is the same as it was for the MY10-12 so how can you change the suspension geometry and not have a change to the correct alignment? It makes no sense...

Good luck to us all...
I just made an appointment to have the dealer check my alignment again as I was just informed by my dealer today that they now have the correct alignment specifications for the 2013 Outbacks. On my first visit, the dealer did not have the specifications in their alignment machines for the 2013's and used the specifications for the 2010-2011's to set my alignment. That alignment did make my OB a little better but still not normal and it still exhibited the wandering.

By looking at the before and after toe settings, my OB was delivered to me with left front toe positive .09 (out of spec!), right front toe zero, left rear toe positive .13, and right rear toe negative -.05 (out of spec). After alignment left front toe negative -.02, right front toe positive .02, left rear positive .10, and right rear toe negative .05. So I still have positive toe at the front right and left rear...not good.

I am interested to see what the differences are in the 2013 specs as my service advisor told me there are differences from the older specs. We'll see what happens...I am going in next Friday. I will keep you guys posted.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:58 PM   #460 (permalink)
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Do you also notice any left and right wandering on straightaways at highway speeds that requires constant small corrections with the steering wheel to keep the car going straight? When traveling for long periods of time this becomes annoying and tiring. It requires 2 handed white knuckle death grips on the steering wheel. That is not normal.
Yes and no. It does catch the wind and crosswinds have their way with it more than with the van, but not worse than my Tacoma. I had read about this issue before I bought mine, so I have been looking for it. It seemed like it did what you're talking about at first, but the more I drove it the less I noticed, but yes, it is different. This AWD car doesn't drive like anything I've been used to.

I'm not saying you don't have a problem and what you're experiencing is not serious. I am saying that my OB's AWD is different than anything else I've driven before and it took me a bit to get used to what it does. I may have a different opinion after an upcoming long road trip.

Sucks that you're having the troubles you are and I do hope Subaru and/or you finds a cure, since so many seem to have a similar experience.

There has to be a reason for the difference between yours and one that tracks straight. Something is loose, broken, wrong part, programming or out of spec or some combination of those.

Good luck with it and finding a competent dealer, service manager and mechanic to help figure it out! My experience with that part has not been very good.
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