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Old 01-13-2013, 11:44 PM   #511 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
Been down this road the 13 specs are the same.
I will get mine done once back in Ohio 10" of snow before I left make it impossible for them to do this.
I think we are all on the right track and I am certain the specs are unacceptable for the 13.
I found the best alignment person and shop where I live so once back I can tweak to what I want it set then test and report...
Good choice on staying away from the dealers. They can be very hit-and-miss in terms of their desire to actually satisfy you.

Another advantage of paying for it is if you don't like it, you can bring it back and ask them to make a change.

I'd suggest .1 to .15 degrees of toe-in on the front and rear.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:11 AM   #512 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JOEM View Post
I had it in on Thursday. It was a 70 miles nightmarish ride going there. I was told the rear was out. I just noticed the spects in the top of the sheet states OB/Legacy 2010-2012.??????? Why? I need to call them and Subaru N/A tomorrow. If i waisted a trip i will be pissed. I posted the spes's you boys can understand this better than I can. I rode better coming home. How much better? I would rate it now as getting a filling repaired rather than a root canal.
Attachment 26850

What I want to know is how come my spec sheet is different then your spec sheet?
Supposedly both of us had an alignment done to 2012 specs

Look at the difference, notice your front toe specs are the same as my front Camber and the same as your rear camber so some typo may be in order but the other numbers are different as well

Front Camber
JOEM -0.5 0.5 Mine -0.8 0.8

Front Caster
JOEM 4.3 5.8 Mine 5.1 5.1

Front Toe
JOEM -0.08 0.08 Mine -0.10 0.10

Rear Camber
JOEM -0.8 0.8 Mine -0.8 0.8

Rear Toe
JOEM 0.00 0.17 Mine -0.05 0.20

This is the sheet they gave me when they claimed they Could Not do an alignment because my car was perfect and right in the middle of the specifications

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Old 01-14-2013, 11:12 AM   #513 (permalink)
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Your caster is out of spec but I noticed they didn't flag that. Positive caster is a good thing in the OB. Any positive toe is bad for our cars and virtually all cars I know of. So is excessive negative toe but slightly negative provides dynamic stability which is what the OB lacks. I sure would like to talk to the engineers that set this spec and discuss it. I can only conclude they did it this way to improve tire wear since excessive negative toe will wear your tires out just as excessive negative camber will too.
Its like this if you have even one wheel slightly pointed out from the thrust vector of the car what do you suppose happens when you are in a rut or the road has slant (for water drainage)? It goes that direction. Thus why workload to keep the OB centered is so high compared to any other car out there.

I can't wait to get back and get my OB aligned to my specs and see if I am full of it or if that corrects the issue completely which is what my hope is. This plus a couple of really minor quality fitment issues (A pillar cover fitment and dash HVAC covers fitment) are the only things that make this OB virtually perfect...
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:24 PM   #514 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt View Post
What I want to know is how come my spec sheet is different then your spec sheet?
Supposedly both of us had an alignment done to 2012 specs

Look at the difference, notice your front toe specs are the same as my front Camber and the same as your rear camber so some typo may be in order but the other numbers are different as well

Front Camber
JOEM -0.5 0.5 Mine -0.8 0.8

Front Caster
JOEM 4.3 5.8 Mine 5.1 5.1

Front Toe
JOEM -0.08 0.08 Mine -0.10 0.10

Rear Camber
JOEM -0.8 0.8 Mine -0.8 0.8

Rear Toe
JOEM 0.00 0.17 Mine -0.05 0.20

This is the sheet they gave me when they claimed they Could Not do an alignment because my car was perfect and right in the middle of the specifications

This is puzzling as yours says 2012 OB/and mine says 2010-2012 OB/Legacy. I am going to investigate it further. I know they made changes in the early in the 2012 MY and boasted about the 2013 handling improvements so there might need different specs for the 2013MY.
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Last edited by JOEM; 01-14-2013 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Add photos image
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #515 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt View Post
What I want to know is how come my spec sheet is different then your spec sheet?
Supposedly both of us had an alignment done to 2012 specs

Look at the difference, notice your front toe specs are the same as my front Camber and the same as your rear camber so some typo may be in order but the other numbers are different as well

Front Camber
JOEM -0.5 0.5 Mine -0.8 0.8

Front Caster
JOEM 4.3 5.8 Mine 5.1 5.1

Front Toe
JOEM -0.08 0.08 Mine -0.10 0.10

Rear Camber
JOEM -0.8 0.8 Mine -0.8 0.8

Rear Toe
JOEM 0.00 0.17 Mine -0.05 0.20

A couple of things to keep in mind:

Alignment numbers are not absolute. A difference of a few tenths of a degree in camber or caster, for non-performance cars, isn't anything to be concerned about.

Also, note that camber and caster are NOT adjustable on the OB - you take what you get from the factory. Again, this is normally fine for the majority of cars on the road.

Some cars, however, are more sensitive to certain adjustments than others. For the 4th Gen OB it seems that toe is going to be it's sticking point. We need to make sure we get the toe right. Actually, this is true, to an extent, for most any car, but perhaps even more so for the 4th Gen OB.

As to your specs, your rear toe could be improved - I like symmetric toe in the rear, or at least a bit closer to symmetric than your car is at (i.e. I'd want more toe-in on the right). And like JOEM they sent you back with zero toe in the front, which I have found to be less than optimum on my 3.6.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #516 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
Any positive toe is bad for our cars and virtually all cars I know of.
Note that toe-in is positive, toe-out is negative. So I believe you meant that any negative toe is bad for our cars.

Also note that some FWD cars like toe-out on the front due to the fact that the torque going through the wheels make them toe-in while driving, so they get set up with toe-out on the alignment rig to prevent excessive toe-in while driving.

Some AWD cars, like the RDX, which put 90% of the torque through the front wheels under normal circumstances, might also benefit from front toe-out, but I don't think that applies to any of the various versions of the 4th gen OB.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:12 PM   #517 (permalink)
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Default Wander wonder

I just got my car back after talking to the dealer about the wander issue.

1) So we did a test drive and the mech. said that the car felt normal (this was scary to me)

2) They checked the alignment and told me that it was within spec (this too was scary to me)

3) they tweaked the alignment

If I can figure out how to upload an image, I will post the printout. But indeed, the initial was within the spec for 2010-2013. However, the front toe in was different between the left and the right.

I will do a long drive test and give my impressions afterwards.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:00 PM   #518 (permalink)
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Just to add fuel to the fire I have attached the Outback alignment specs I received direct from SOA when I questioned the specs that the dealer used to align my car (2013 3.6R). They sent specs for MY 2010 thru 2013. Note that they are all very similar (2012 and 2013 ARE the same). Seems strange that with the alleged suspension "Update" for the 2013 3.6R that there is no distinction between the 2.5 and 3.6 but I'm no alignment guru
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Outback alignment specs from SOA Jan 11 2013.pdf (283.0 KB, 64 views)
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:24 PM   #519 (permalink)
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Guys, I got my '13 2.5i OB back from the dealer today. I can't scan my alignment printout so I will type it out for everyone's benefit. The following specs are listed for 2012-13 Legacy/Outback:

Front

Camber -0.8 0.8 (L 0.0 0.1) (R 0.0 0.0)
Caster 4.3 5.8 (These were NOT on my printout???)
Toe -0.08 0.17 (L -0.11 0.04) (R -0.04 0.03)
Cross Camber -0.8 0.8 (0.0 0.1)
Total Toe -0.17 0.33 (-0.15 0.07)

Rear

Camber -0.8 0.8 (L -0.3 -0.3) (R -0.1 -0.1)
Toe -0.04 0.21 (L 0.13 0.13) (R 0.02 0.04)
Cross Camber -0.8 0.8 (-0.1 -0.1)
Total Toe -0.08 0.42 (0.15 0.16)
Thrust Angle -0.33 0.33 (0.06 0.04)

In parenthesis we will find my before and after readings. Before readings are in red and after are in bold black. According to the specs, the only spec that was out was the left front toe (which is italicized and in bold red). The BIGGEST change was in the front toe which went from negative 0.15 to positive 0.07 after adjustments were made.

I drove the OB home from the dealer and I was on the highway for approximately 15 miles. The improvement is very noticeable...on the positive side!!! The OB no longer feels like it has a mind of its own where it would wander all over the place all the while fighting to keep it straight. It tracks very straight and I was actually able to drive it using one hand. White knuckling was no longer necessary and I could actually relax a bit while driving where before I would have to pay 110% attention otherwise the car would wander. It's a real nice improvement. What would make it even sweeter is tweaking the speed sensitive power steering to make the steering a little easier at highway speeds. To me it seems to be a little on the tight side. Maybe it will loosen up with some mileage.

I am 2 alignments in with my OB and both made improvements with the second one having the best outcome.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:29 PM   #520 (permalink)
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2012 OB, manual trans (from my dealer printout, posted earlier, page 43-ish)

toe-in acceptable ranges: front: -0.08 to +0.08 rear: 0.00 to 0.17
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