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Oil Consumption 2013 2.5

470K views 817 replies 198 participants last post by  FXYRXY 
#1 ·
I am creating a new thread on oil consumption. The previous one has been diluted by many folks giving obvious advice on checking engine oil often or stating that they haven't been using oil with the 3.6, etc. It just hasn't been focused or helpful. I've scoured subaru forums, legacy included, and found that there is a sizeable group of folks with abnormal engine consumption in the 2013 2.5. The most significant finding came from this legacy thread. Contributor name "Mikeyb6927", page 3, about halfway down the page. He had abnormal consumption and got lucky that the service manager disregarded SOA's response that all was "normal". He found his engine disassembled...check the pics out for yourself: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2013-2-5-low-oil-indicator-198209p3.html

Personally I have added a gallon of oil in 9,000 miles on my 2013 2.5i 6spd. I had the oil changed at 5,000 miles at a Valvoline with the right type of oil. I just had the oil changed at about 9,200 at the dealer and asked for an oil consumption test. The service manager told me that I had made a mistake by having my oil changed at 5,000 because Subaru recommends 7,500. He said that may be why my oil consumption is high, because I changed the oil early. He said that the rings may not seat properly if the oil is changed before 7,500. I challenged him on this statement and he said he wasn't an engineer and didn't know. Again, this is the service manager. This does not give me confidence in the dealer or resolution of this matter. Lee's Summit Subaru btw in Missouri.

Please keep the topic focused on the problem at hand. I know that there's debate on the weight of oil recommended. Regardless, four quarts of oil in under 10,000 miles is not a weight of oil problem. Subaru's "Drive" magazine came out with an article reassuring owners that consumption was normal in these type of cars, though I think this is there way of trying to preemptively shape the problem in their favor. If you don't have an issue with high consumption, congratulations, don't post here. You got a great car. I didn't.
 
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#358 ·
My 2012 OB didn't use oil but my 2013 uses a quart about every 5K miles. Been told the same thing from the dealer that this is normal and not to worry. A neighbor told me last Saturday a friend of his who did his research was ready to buy a Forester but changed his mind because the oil usage issue was still in the unsolved mystery category. I love my Subies but if burning a quart of oil every oil change is the new normal someone needs to come up with an explanation that will convince buyers of that - or accept losing sales. Being told "we don't know what you're talking about" or "just make sure to check your oil frequently and you should be OK" won't fly with Subie buyers. If I wanted to invest in a vehicle with quality issues or design defects I'd buy a [fill in the blank with a brand you don't like]. The commercials tell us love is what makes a Subaru. Love may be blind but it isn't stupid...

P.S. Dear EPA, Free the hostages - approve diesel OB for sale in the US.
 
#359 ·
This car has me frustrated to say the least. It's now 2k miles since my short block replacement. Before replacement, the light would come on at approx. 1100 miles, at which point the oil was about halfway between the low and high mark on the dip stick. Now atalmost 2100 miles, I'm at the same point. So basically the consumption is about half of what it was before. If this rate continues, it's about a quart every 4k miles, worst case 3800 miles? I can live with one quart between oil changes as long as no damage it being made to other components on the car.

What has me a little concerned is that at 1100 miles, the oil level was about 1/4 inch below full mark. At 1900 miles it was now 1/2 inch and looks like it may be a hair lower at approx 2100 miles. I guess some break-in is expected, so we'll see. I was told to go back after 3200 miles but at this point, I will most likely be taking it in before the end of this week. Just a PITA to keep going there.
 
#361 ·
stampeding turtle, I'm with you on the 10yr thing. That was my goal all along - buy a basic, reliable vehicle and drive it until the wheels fall off. But with one kid and two on the way I don't have time for bi-weekly trips to the dealer, trade-in hit or not.

Don't get me wrong, I wish Subaru the best in getting this resolved. Overall I'm glad Subaru continues to make a reliable product that's affordable to most families.

-Andrew
 
#364 ·
For those than have traded in, or are trading in, did the engine rebuild/replacement come up? Does anyone know if it is showing up Carfax reports?

I'm worried that if I do trade this car in, I'm going to have negotiated the price on the car I'm trading for and then when it comes to the trade in, they'll run a carfax or something and want to use it as an excuse for to give me less than blue book on my trade in.

The dealer (I asked about this before they did the engine work), of course, told me that no, they'll probably give you more on trade in because it has a fresh engine. #eyeRoll

Also, did anyone else who had the block swap or ring job done notice significantly decreased mileage? I just had a tank of highway miles that the dash readout claimed 22.3, calculation based on trip meter was 21.6...I used to be able to get that sort of mileage in my 'gas guzzler' V8 Dodge pickup!
 
#365 ·
I read a couple, less than a handful, of instance where people traded in their repairs(short block replaced) cars and had it affect value. I can't find links at the moment. I do remember that a few of the instances were recorded in the current lawsuit so those claims may be embellished and another one I think was earlier in this or another thread like it.

What I do know is that at the couple of dealers+carmax that I went to over the last week to see about trading in my car all asked if the car had had any "major engine work." I would consider a short block replacement major work. They also made you sign a paper stating all the information about the car and if it had had such major engine rework. Just based off this I would think they would value a trade less if you marked it as such. Even if it didn't hit the carfax. And if you were to lie, which is morally wrong, it could legally come back to bite you if you have signed such a document stating differently.
 
#366 ·
I performed my own oil usage test.
I filled up to the full hole on the dipstick and drove 2000 miles, on a trip
I used about 1.2 quarts which is below the "quart every 1200 miles" which is considered normal.

What are the chances Subaru will do somthing about it if I have them perform the oil usage test?
 
#367 ·
I performed my own oil usage test.
I filled up to the full hole on the dipstick and drove 2000 miles, on a trip
I used about 1.2 quarts which is below the "quart every 1200 miles" which is considered normal.

What are the chances Subaru will do something about it if I have them perform the oil usage test?
It seems in spite of the ridiculous figures in the manual, I understand they actually consider anything over a quart in 3600 miles as excessive, and will carry out repairs on that basis.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/2019954-post293.html

I also believe the warranty for this falls under the 5 year 60,000mile drive train portion, so unless you are over 60k, you should go and get your official oil consumption test underway.
 
#369 ·
I took my 2013 for a longish drive yesterday...I've noticed that fuel mileage has been pretty crap since the engine swap, but I did 300 miles of highway driving...and was out of gas.

The little dash computer said I was getting 21 MPG, but figuring my mileage based on trip meter and the amount of gas to refill the tank, I got 17.4 mpg.

Any suggestions on how I should approach this with the dealer? Any expectation they'll care?
 
#370 ·
I would first keep careful records for a while, fill up til it clicks off after different kinds of driving, so that city and highway driving can be separated.

You can use a spreadsheet, or pen and paper, or you can use the Fuelly website to do this. Just make sure you record every fillup, and the total mileage to date at each fill. I always write the mileage on my receipt, and then I can do the paperwork later.

Ignore the dash computer for now, as they are often inaccurate.

Then once you have about five or six consistent readings, preferably both kinds of driving, then you go to the dealer armed with all the facts, and they will not be able to blow you off as easily.
 
#373 ·
Last month my oil light came on again, so I took it to the dealer. They topped it off again, and recorded the levels. They said it was actually "normal" and there was an update for the warning light. The dealer told me the warning light comes on too soon, and subaru has a fix for it. I didn't have time for them to do the update.

Has anyone else heard of such a thing?
 
#374 ·
The dealer told me the warning light comes on too soon, and subaru has a fix for it

Yes, they told me they installed a new oil level sensor and did a software upgrade when they did my 2nd short block. If anything, the oil level light now comes on @ 1/2 quarter lower (normally it comes on at 1 quart low). I suppose Subaru thinks your car being 1.5 quarts low is "normal". This is just them trying to wiggle out of fixing a bunch of oil consumption cases. Between lowering oil change mileage to 6000 and "fixing" the sensor, they can now wiggle out of a lot of marginal cases due to consumer ignorance. Most people are not burning a quart every 1000 miles the way I was, so if they keep that light off till the warranty is up, they can save themselves a bunch of money. How sleazy.
 
#376 ·
So, curiously, does burning oil effect gas mileage?

If it does, I see another legal avenue to proceed with...

I've got two 2013 Subaru's, and they both burn oil. The 3.6R and the 2.5i are burning at a fairly serious rate.

It's clear that the 2.5i is 1/3QT ~1200-1300 miles (25k on the car now).

The 3.5R is burning oil at 1QT every 4300 miles exactly. (My Honda v6 never did that, even when I got rid of it with close to 165k it wasn't burning oil.)

Man, I'm disappointed.
 
#377 ·
So, curiously, does burning oil effect gas mileage?


Yes, it does, if it fouls the emissions sensors. But that really won't change anything as per your legal options. The only real attack is either the lemon law route, or the federal warranty law that requires them to pay you for the diminished value of your vehicle as a result of the repeated attempts to repair an issue. You will need to pick one of these avenues, and a lemon law attorney can advise you which route will work best based on your state's lemon laws. I just got 4500 from Subaru for this, and the warranty is still in effect so they still need to fix the multitude of things both they and the dealer are messing up.
 
#379 ·
Oil light on again at 13,300. Oil changed at 10,4000. Took it in today, the dealer claims it is not burning oil and the level is fine. They updated the ECU to change the sensitivity of the oil light. 3000 miles ago it was to the top dot, now its 1/4 of the way above the lower dot. How is that not burning oil I will never know.

If I were a betting man, that light is now going to come on around 4k after an oil change.
 
#381 ·
TSB 02-157-14R and TSB 11-145-14R

Many Outback owners are plagued with excessive oil consumption issues. This problem afflicts other Subaru lines as well. Subaru has issued several Technical Service Bulletins on this problem. Two of the most important TSBs for Outback owners are TSB 02-157-14R (Surface Treatment Change To Oil Control Piston Rings) and TSB 11-145-14R (Reprogramming File Availability for Oil Level Detection).



Both TSBs are attached here.



It is important to note that TSB 02-157-14R supersedes the previous TSBs including the often cited TSB 02-143-13R. TSB 02-157-14R provides for short block replacement as the repair procedure.


TSB 11-145-14R is important because it represents Subaru's attempt to minimize the oil consumption problem by reprogramming the oil level switch detection setting to reduce the frequency of "low oil level"- light illuminations. Some might consider this Subaru merely trying to hide a problem it knows it has. Decide for yourself.
 

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#382 ·
Many Outback owners are plagued with excessive oil consumption issues. This problem afflicts other Subaru lines as well. Subaru has issued several Technical Service Bulletins on this problem. Two of the most important TSBs for Outback owners are TSB 02-157-14R (Surface Treatment Change To Oil Control Piston Rings) and TSB 11-145-14R (Reprogramming File Availability for Oil Level Detection).



Both TSBs are attached here.



It is important to note that TSB 02-157-14R supersedes the previous TSBs including the often cited TSB 02-143-13R. TSB 02-157-14R provides for short block replacement as the repair procedure.


TSB 11-145-14R is important because it represents Subaru's attempt to minimize the oil consumption problem by reprogramming the oil level switch detection setting to reduce the frequency of "low oil level"- light illuminations. Some might consider this Subaru merely trying to hide a problem it knows it has. Decide for yourself.

That's the old TSB, the new updated TSB calls for a short block if using more then 10.2 ounces in 12 miles after consumption test is started.
 
#384 ·
The dealership is supposed to change the oil, fill it precisely to the full mark (in my experience they will overfill it and hope you don't notice), then you drive the car. Come back to the dealership at 1200 miles or when the oil light comes on/dipstick reads low, whichever happens first.

When you bring the car back in, they are supposed to check the oil level and determine how much oil was used based on how much the level has dropped on the dipstick (which is why the original fill level is so important). Since it is supposed to take 1.1 quarts between the low and full marks on the dipstick, if you are 1/2 between those marks at 1200 miles it means you consumed at least .5 quarts in 1200 miles.
 
#386 ·
I just got an oil change a couple weeks ago - I'll have to double-check (or better yet, take a picture) of the oil level on the dipstick now. I can then compare it every thousand miles or so.

I have 25k? miles on my '13 now, and haven't had any indications of an oil consumption problem. The dealer did comment they are recommending a 6k mile oil change interval, even though the service schedule in the book says 7500.

Is this problem one that is obvious that you have it? Like - the problem is so obvious that you'll know right away that something is wrong, or is it more like you'll only be able to tell if you are really paying attention?

If a half qt is that easy to notice after 1200 miles, then I guess it really is something that would be obviously apparent.
If you have not had to add oil in 25k miles, you are unlikely to have the problem. Not every '13 2.5 does. If you are using excessive oil, you would be getting an oil light by 3k miles after an oil change. If you are going a full oil change interval without needing to add oil, you are free from the issue.
 
#390 ·
I had my short block replaced at 33K. 2200 miles after the replacement, the light came on at about 1/2 between low and full on the dipstick. Before the short-block replacement, the light came on at 1100 miles, so it cut consumption in half. So far, after 2900 mile since my last oil change, the oil level is slightly below the midway mark on the dipstick. Based on the this, I estimate that it will go around 4K, probably 4500 miles before needing a quart. Again, half of what it was burning before but I guess something more reasonable than it was burning before. It was just very frustrating going back and forth to the dealer, missing work, etc. and then of course the diminished value of the car.
 
#391 ·
From TSB 02-157-14R on short block replacement:

• Be advised, some higher than expected oil consumption may occur initially following the shortblock replacement until the new piston rings become seated. While
higher than expected normally, this oil consumption rate should not be as severe as verified prior to the repair. This will generally improve within 1000 miles of driving
until the expected oil consumption rate is achieved.
 
#393 ·
The stated break-in period in the manual is 1000 miles

New vehicle break-in driving
– the first 1,000 miles (1,600
km)
The performance and long life of your
vehicle are dependent on how you handle
and care for your vehicle while it is new.
Follow these instructions during the first
1,000 miles (1,600 km):
Also, for the same vehicle sold in Canada, the oil change interval is 10,000 km or 6,000 miles, so you aren't nearly as far off that.

I've never heard of an issue with changing oil early!!!


Also, interesting, yet another 6spd Standard with the oil consumption issue. Anecdotally, it seems to me about half or more of the problems occur with standard shifts, and I suspect the percentage of standards sold is way below 10%

Mine with CVT so far has used about a quart since we've owned it, being from 39,000 to 45,000 kms. More than I like, but definitely below the problem threshold.
 
#396 ·
So, moved/changed dealership. Good thing. It's been 1,000 miles, and I was already down 2 quarts. New dealership's service guy is proactive and saying things like short block already. If course SOA will be the decision maker, but it's so nice have a dealer actually agree that there is a problem.

So, with 16,300 miles on my two year old car, there is talk ad a new short block. And to think, a year ago I was in a Subaru commercial for Subaru EyeSight Stories. It's been a great car otherwise, and I'm still happy we got it. My faith in the brand has been restored. Wow, what a difference a dealership can make. If anyone else is having a difficult time with this issue, try a new dealership. It can really help.

<Edited to adjust the way I feel about the situation after having several days to think about it.>
 
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#398 ·
So, moved/changed dealership. Good thing. It's been 1,000 miles, and I was already down 2 quarts. New dealership's service guy is proactive and saying things like short block already. If course SOA will be the decision maker, but it's so nice have a dealer actually agree that there is a problem.

So, with 16,300 miles on my two year old car, there is talk ad a new short block. And to think, a year ago I was in a Subaru commercial for Subaru EyeSight Stories. It's been a great car otherwise, and I'm still happy we got it. Eyesight prevented an accident with my pregnant wife. So, I guess we'll get past this consumption issue. And now that I've got a dealer that admits there is a problem things are get better.
Woohoo! Hopefully you'll have as good an experience as I had, both with a great proactive dealer and with SoA replacing the defective part.:grin2:
 
#400 ·
One more question about the short block replacemen fix, did you fuel economy improve afterward too?
 
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