Subaru Outback Manual Transmission issues?

[dieselraver]

Originally Posted by mopartodd

x2. Changing the fluid to a full synthetic helped cold performance little. 18.5 k miles on mine so far. We just don't try and downshift to 1-2 when cold.

eh, i was told to let the tranny and engine break in before changing over to synthetics, changing it this early can cause premature wear but I was looking into changing the fluids over also

[dakboy]

Originally Posted by Pacomutt

I'm wondering why you're down-shifting when coming to a stop light. I've known of others who have had short clutch life-spans, but this was their practice also. Use your brakes to slow and stop; that's what they were designed for. Plus, they're much cheaper than using the clutch, engine, axle shafts, etc. as brakes.
You're lucky they're giving you a new one, IMHO.

Downshifting to slow the car down is SOP for experienced manual drivers, and in the snow works much better than just getting on the brakes IME.

Assuming everything is adjusted properly, the clutch only wears when you have the pedal in (engine & drivetrain disengaged) and engine braking will significantly extend the life of your brakes, while improving fuel mileage (because the engine will still turn with the injectors off; with the clutch in, or the tranny in N, you still have to put fuel into the engine).

[Pacomutt]

Originally Posted by mopartodd

x2. Changing the fluid to a full synthetic helped cold performance little. 18.5 k miles on mine so far. We just don't try and downshift to 1-2 when cold.

Shouldn't need different fluids to make the tranny perform the way it was designed. It's obviously just not designed as well as some others. Synchronizers
are little clutches that need friction to slow down or speed up gears before allowing them to engage. Just google synthetic transmission oils to find cases of super-slick synthetic oils causing abnormal wear and damage to transmissions. Honda guys especially won't use it.

[Pacomutt]

Originally Posted by dakboy

Downshifting to slow the car down is SOP for experienced manual drivers, and in the snow works much better than just getting on the brakes IME.

Assuming everything is adjusted properly, the clutch only wears when you have the pedal in (engine & drivetrain disengaged) and engine braking will significantly extend the life of your brakes, while improving fuel mileage (because the engine will still turn with the injectors off; with the clutch in, or the tranny in N, you still have to put fuel into the engine).

Wrong on virtually all counts except for maybe slowing on slippery surfaces.

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by dieselraver

So as most of you know by my sig, I have a 2010 Subaru Outback with the 2.5i 6 Speed Manual.

a whopping 830 units (give or take) were sold in 2010 with the manual transmission.

I brought my OB in to the dealership to get a 9000 mile oil change. I had been noticing in the the cold weather that the shifting from N-1-2 or from 4 - 2 (coming to a stop light) would be extremely difficult sometimes impossible, requiring me to center the stick and then select the gear again.

today the shop called and said my clutch was basically gone, that I was riding the clutch, mind you I've been driving stick for well over 5 years, so I know how to clutch in and out properly.

the car in question has just over 10,000 miles on it, and the subaru guy said Subaru would goodwill the service and ordered me a new clutch, (this is what happens when you are loyal to your dealership)

I wanted to know if anyone has heard of any issues with these newer outbacks and the clutch setup. I know us 2010 outback owners are probably a really small demographic but I am hoping some of you OB Guru's may have heard or even dealt first hand (any subaru service manager) with an issue like this

Using a clutch for 5yrs LOL. Sorry had to laugh a clutch being gone after 10,000 miles would be a combo of very wrong use and possibly something wrong with the car.

A clutch wears any time its being slipped and proper use of a manual would be no slipping your foot is either on the clutch to release it or engage it and nothing else or your simply not doing it right.

When considering another MT I asked a family friend who custom built drag cars and drag boats and now manages the local Subaru service department. First question he asked me was how many miles did my last manual go before the clutch was replaced? The answer was 144,000 with boat towing and San Francisco hills. His response was your fine with another MT but anyone who gets less than 100K on the clutches used in cars today should simply not own a MT period. His point being there are people who simply can't operate them correctly and the cost of replacing the clutch far out weighs the cost of a AT

[dakboy]

Originally Posted by Pacomutt

Wrong on virtually all counts except for maybe slowing on slippery surfaces.

Rather than just saying "LOL, you're so wrong" how about actually explaining why? Everything I have read, every person with significant experience driving sticks I've talked to, has always recommended engine braking.

[subiesailor]

Regarding shifting that generally is not related to the clutch wear. Though it could be related to clutch adjustment.

[Pacomutt]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

Using a clutch for 5yrs LOL. Sorry had to laugh a clutch being gone after 10,000 miles would be a combo of very wrong use and possibly something wrong with the car.

A clutch wears any time its being slipped and proper use of a manual would be no slipping your foot is either on the clutch to release it or engage it and nothing else or your simply not doing it right.

When considering another MT I asked a family friend who custom built drag cars and drag boats and now manages the local Subaru service department. First question he asked me was how many miles did my last manual go before the clutch was replaced? The answer was 144,000 with boat towing and San Francisco hills. His response was your fine with another MT but anyone who gets less than 100K on the clutches used in cars today should simply not own a MT period. His point being there are people who simply can't operate them correctly and the cost of replacing the clutch far out weighs the cost of a AT

Absolutely right! I bought a Toyota Celica 5-spd. from the original owner, a driver who operated a manual transmission much like I do. The car had 110,000 miles on it when I got it, and aside from a timing belt, nothing had ever been done to the car. I sold the car years later with 280,000 miles on it and aside from a few more belts everything was still original. Including the clutch!

[subiesailor]

The rule of thumb is that when coming to a stop and down shifting with a manual - 3rd gear is the lowest gear one generally should use. Though the new OB 6spd MT is geared so high that 1st gear is nearly 2nd gear for all other vehicles so 2nd gear might be fine.

A new gear box can be stiff and the synchros which are weights that help time the gears so they mesh vs grind at given speed ranges may be set so that your sense of when to down shift and what speed range the actual gear box will accept the gear swap are not in synch. The way you shift all gear boxes is you apply light pressure and hold till the gear box accepts your request in essence the gears reach the synch point and change. A new gear box can be stiff or very selective about this vs an old sloppy gear box can in theory even be shifted with no clutch use and a very aware driver.

With a new gear box like the Subaru 6spd paired to the AWD system it would be wise to refrain from down shifting past 3rd till you have some miles on the car like 25,000 plus miles. As you get down into the 2nd and 1st gear down shifting the speed range the gear box is tuned to accept is narrower and narrower increasing the margin of error. Which case using the brakes is much easier and better for the car.

By the way the subaru brakes generally run about 60+K on these cars so the cost of using your brakes vs down shifting is pretty minimal. Compared to say my landcruiser that will eat a set of pads in about 8000 miles.

[dakboy]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

By the way the subaru brakes generally run about 60+K on these cars so the cost of using your brakes vs down shifting is pretty minimal. Compared to say my landcruiser that will eat a set of pads in about 8000 miles.

Do enough people have enough miles on their 2010+ Outbacks to know for sure what kind of life expectancy the brakes have?