2013 Navigation Hack - Bad News

[djz]

Originally Posted by Georgeh

Explain to us how the car can tell that the passenger is typing rather than the driver. Solve that (and I'm sure it's just a matter of expense), and it's a game changer.

Not really, Just because you can do something does not guarantee that you will do it.

I managed to survive 5 years with a heavily modified STi, with a hacked navigation system, remote start (oh my god, remote start on a manual transmission) and a hand held cell phone without a single incident. Before that, I survived 3 years with a similarly modified WRX and I still have my Mustang that I bought in 1996 with the same setup.

This is where personal responsibility comes in. Had I ever remote started one of these vehicles and ran it in to a building or a pack of wild first graders, it would be all my fault. I am careful how, where and when I use not only the add ons to the vehicle but the power the vehicle came with from the factory.

California has a law against hand holding a cell phone while driving, but that does not stop people. And in fact, the statistics of cell phone blamed accidents have not changed since the law went in to place, which seems to defy all odds. Even if 10% of people using cell phones went hands free, you should see a statistical change.

Wag your finger and shake your head at me all you want, I don't care...

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by djz

Not really, Just because you can do something does not guarantee that you will do it.

I managed to survive 5 years with a heavily modified STi, with a hacked navigation system, remote start (oh my god, remote start on a manual transmission) and a hand held cell phone without a single incident. Before that, I survived 3 years with a similarly modified WRX and I still have my Mustang that I bought in 1996 with the same setup.

This is where personal responsibility comes in. Had I ever remote started one of these vehicles and ran it in to a building or a pack of wild first graders, it would be all my fault. I am careful how, where and when I use not only the add ons to the vehicle but the power the vehicle came with from the factory.

California has a law against hand holding a cell phone while driving, but that does not stop people. And in fact, the statistics of cell phone blamed accidents have not changed since the law went in to place, which seems to defy all odds. Even if 10% of people using cell phones went hands free, you should see a statistical change.

Wag your finger and shake your head at me all you want, I don't care...

The law was put into place so that cops has a legal reason to stop you when they spot you doing it. Had one of our local cops at my house a few weeks ago discussing where to locate their speed trailer given we have some speeding issues on a very small dead end housing area street. He was giving me the brush off till two cars blasted by doing some place in the 40mph range in a marked 25mph which is probably too high for the number of kids who live on the street and no sidewalks. Anyway he said that the worst accidents they are seeing are all tied to cell phone use primarily texting.

The eye sight systems are part of the fix helps keep texting drivers from running down people in cross walks. However the minivan full of kids they had to pull out of a ditch recently was courtesy of mom texting. All were OK but the van was destroyed very lucky

[djz]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

The law was put into place so that cops has a legal reason to stop you when they spot you doing it. Had one of our local cops at my house a few weeks ago discussing where to locate their speed trailer given we have some speeding issues on a very small dead end housing area street. He was giving me the brush off till two cars blasted by doing some place in the 40mph range in a marked 25mph which is probably too high for the number of kids who live on the street and no sidewalks. Anyway he said that the worst accidents they are seeing are all tied to cell phone use primarily texting.

The eye sight systems are part of the fix helps keep texting drivers from running down people in cross walks. However the minivan full of kids they had to pull out of a ditch recently was courtesy of mom texting. All were OK but the van was destroyed very lucky

And as I said, you can't legislate safety you have to teach it. Preventing me from typing in an address should I chse to do so just pisses me off, once I stop to waste time to plug in the address and start going again I am pissed that I had to do that and I drive like a jerk, only faster since I had to pull over to type in the address and now I am a late jerk behind the wheel.

EyeSight is a great system, but guess what, I can push a button and turn it off if I want. I should be able to type in an address if I want also.

How long has it been ilegal to murder someone, well over 100 years. Thanks to that no murders take place anymore right?

[Georgeh]

Originally Posted by djz

Wag your finger and shake your head at me all you want, I don't care...

That's better. At least now you are being honest.

No doubt, a careful person can program a nav system and drive at the same time without causing an accident. The same could be said about drunk driving.

Anyway, I'm not the type to preach, and I share your distaste for the granny-nannies in the electronics. However, I do wish somebody would invent something cheap that could tell if it's the passenger manipulating the nav system.

[baobab]

Originally Posted by djz

And as I said, you can't legislate safety you have to teach it. Preventing me from typing in an address should I chse to do so just pisses me off, once I stop to waste time to plug in the address and start going again I am pissed that I had to do that and I drive like a jerk, only faster since I had to pull over to type in the address and now I am a late jerk behind the wheel.

EyeSight is a great system, but guess what, I can push a button and turn it off if I want. I should be able to type in an address if I want also.

How long has it been ilegal to murder someone, well over 100 years. Thanks to that no murders take place anymore right?

I am not in favor of nanny systems either, but you actually make an argument for the lock-out.
I understand personal responsibility as well, and I am all for it. If one could only harm himself while being distracted, it would be one thing, but innocent people are many times harmed as well.

As you said, you cannot legislate safety. Even when you teach it, you will not get a person like yourself to stop doing things that are distracting you from driving. Therefore, the solution is to lock those features out.

It's inconvenient for people that have a passenger, and it does not completely solve the issue because you can have a handheld phone or device that you can still use while driving. But it is more than just legislating or telling you not to do it, which you so eloquently proved that it does not work.

[Tom28]

I'm mixed about the lockouts. I defeated the lockouts on my Alpine HU's and didn't have any issues.

But you know, on the way to work yesterday morning, I had a woman, completely distracted cut me off 3 times. By the 4th time she tried to cut me off, I was fit to be tied and burned about 8 gallons of gas to keep her from flying across 5 lanes of traffic making her miss her exit. I did get some satisfaction from that.

Just because you (think you) can fidget with the electronics or what not in your car, it doesn't mean everyone can. And that half second you look down to enter an address, you could find yourself in a world of hurt and maybe end up seriously hurting or killing someone (ie a motorcyclist who you don't see).

[djz]

I don't think anyone but me should decide what I should be doing. There are some people out there that can't drive and talk to their passenger, should we make they always drive alone? Some people can't tune the radio while they drive, maybe we should take the radios out of cars. Still others can't safely adjust the HVAC while driving, maybe we should take heaters and air conditioners out of cars as well?

It's a slippery slope, give a little and they will take a lot in the long run.

I will give you the navi lockout as long as it means that nobody will ever have an accident and no motorcyclists will ever be hit and killed. But the second another car accident happens, you have to unlock my navi, do we have a deal?

[Tom28]

Originally Posted by djz

I don't think anyone but me should decide what I should be doing. There are some people out there that can't drive and talk to their passenger, should we make they always drive alone? Some people can't tune the radio while they drive, maybe we should take the radios out of cars. Still others can't safely adjust the HVAC while driving, maybe we should take heaters and air conditioners out of cars as well?

It's a slippery slope, give a little and they will take a lot in the long run.

I will give you the navi lockout as long as it means that nobody will ever have an accident and no motorcyclists will ever be hit and killed. But the second another car accident happens, you have to unlock my navi, do we have a deal?

I would completely, 100% agree with you on this ... if driving was a god-given-right.

[mpnret]

Originally Posted by djz

I don't think anyone but me should decide what I should be doing. There are some people out there that can't drive and talk to their passenger, should we make they always drive alone? Some people can't tune the radio while they drive, maybe we should take the radios out of cars. Still others can't safely adjust the HVAC while driving, maybe we should take heaters and air conditioners out of cars as well?

It's a slippery slope, give a little and they will take a lot in the long run.

I will give you the navi lockout as long as it , means that nobody will ever have an accident and no motorcyclists will ever be hit and killed. But the second another car accident happens, you have to unlock my navi, do we have a deal?

Problem is, it's always the worst drivers that feel this way.

[baobab]

Originally Posted by djz

I don't think anyone but me should decide what I should be doing. There are some people out there that can't drive and talk to their passenger, should we make they always drive alone? Some people can't tune the radio while they drive, maybe we should take the radios out of cars. Still others can't safely adjust the HVAC while driving, maybe we should take heaters and air conditioners out of cars as well?

It's a slippery slope, give a little and they will take a lot in the long run.

I will give you the navi lockout as long as it means that nobody will ever have an accident and no motorcyclists will ever be hit and killed. But the second another car accident happens, you have to unlock my navi, do we have a deal?

I do not think that locking out the nav will have a large effect on the statistics, just because I think (without any facts to back this up) that nav distraction is much less frequent than cell phone distraction, or even people reading while driving. Also, just a fraction of car based nav systems have the lockout, not every nav. So, I am not really for the nav lockout.

I think cell phone texting is much more distracting, but it is hard to engineer a system to lockout the cell phone when you are driving. It is easy to detect that you are moving at a given speed, but it is hard to detect that you are driving, and not merely on board a moving vehicle while texting. Probably the solution is to enforce the cell phone laws and make them as strict as the DUI laws.

When I said that you proved that legislating does not work, I was not referring to you admitting doing things while driving, but to your previous post where you said the statistics for accidents in California did not change after the law came into effect. I think any one of those people thought that they can handle whatever they were doing. Not one of them was thinking that they were going to have an accident. But it is called an accident for a reason.
Still, I think that if they would enforce the law more strictly and made the punishment on par with DUI, that might yield an effect on statistics.