2013 Outback vs 2013 Venza on ice test by AMCI.

[statueim]

Originally Posted by Novablue

What I don't understand is why is Toyota trying to steal market share from Subaru when they own 20% of the company?

100% of profits are better than 20% of profits. Also, they might be doing a little self-competition to make the risks higher for others who might contemplate competing in the niche AWD wagon market (any profits are better than none).

[Novablue]

Originally Posted by statueim

Also, they might be doing a little self-competition to make the risks higher for others who might contemplate competing in the niche AWD wagon market (any profits are better than none).

That makes more sense actually.

The rest of the answers are not lost on me people.

[dboz]

Real world would be taking both off road on hills and mudpits. Taking off on ice is easily accomplished with tires.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Novablue

What I don't understand is why is Toyota trying to steal market share from Subaru when they own 20% of the company?

I've read that the Outback sales have been good over time and increasing with the current generation. The Outback has been a hot seller in my market area. I'm not sure of the same with Venza. It seems like good business try for a hot seller.

Also, Toyota owns a percentage of the Subaru parent company - not Subaru being a sibling division of same company.

[mcbrew]

Maybe it's just my impression... But it seems to me that the Venza is a wagon with optional AWD... Kinda like the Matrix. I wonder how many of them are actually AWD? I doubt your average person even realizes they make an AWD Venza.

[Jake2c]

Wonder if they had VDC on or off. On ice is one of the few times Subaru recommends VDC off. I noticed the Venza's wheels were spinning quicker on most of the runs. They should do real world, not just the addition of hills but how about adding 12" of snow. Would like to have seen those comparisons.

[dboz]

I would LOVE to see a Venza do any of these REAL WORLD tests. Not an OB but I have been researching the XV.

17.03.2012 ????????? Subaru XV `12 - YouTube

17.03.2012 ????????? Subaru XV `12 - YouTube

Subaru Crosstrek ground clearance test - YouTube

Subaru Crosstrek ground clearance test - YouTube

You Tube

You Tube

[Georgeh]

I actually think this test is more "real world" than many of the other tests I've seen. The roller tests in particular seem very suspect to me.

After all, one thing most owners of AWD cars expect them to do is get them home from the store after a snow or ice storm. Launching with all four tires on an icy flat surface is one of the more basic tests one could do.

I'm not all that surprised by the results. With no limited slip differentials at either axle, it's all down to the software, at least for launches. Looks like the algorithms have been figured out.

Having said that, it would be interesting to see how stable the two cars are at speed (say, 35 mph) in a corner on a hill. Particularly, when the surface changes from wet to packed snow mid-corner. Now that's a real-world test. Theoretically, Subaru's more even torque split and "always on" AWD should give better stability (less likely to drift off-line) than a system that is FWD by default. But then again, it probably depends on how fast the software intervenes.

I'd also like to see the test in the video done with a OB with a limited slip rear diff, but I don't think Subaru sells cars like that any more.

Finally, agreed with all the comments on the tires.

[rasterman]

The Toyota may have come with better tires- but that's part of the point. They aren't comparing idealized examples of these cars, they are comparing what the dealers are actually selling for advertised prices. I'm sure these results could have been skewed in either direction if they had used cars optimized by their owners with different tires, loads, traction control settings & driving styles.


I'm impressed that Toyota has caught up on this front. I still hate the name "venza" though, sounds like a cheesy 90s condo development.

[hiker74]

I think this proves that all AWD vehicle makers should follow suit instead of making gimick AWD systems like most of the bozos out there. For safety's sake I applaud them and I think that the fact of AMCI not declaring a real winner even though it does appear that Toyota paid for it. Other safer vehicles on the road makes it safer for everyone. We gave the Venza a really hard look, but we wanted good MPG and the V6 and 4 Cyl Venza cars had really poor mpg