How to haul a 10ft 1x10 on the roof?

[Se7enLC]

Originally Posted by Saint J VT

I would think all the Subaru side rails have openings in them, like my '05 does, however I could be wrong. The only way it wouldn't work (as you stated) would be if the side rails are, in fact completely solid with no openings.

Bingo. 2010-2013 Outbacks have no openings in the side rails - unless you leave the cross rails in the side-rail position (and then you have no cross rails!)

(This is why I posted in the Gen 4 sub-forum - I figured people with a Gen 4 would understand the roof rack issue. With a normal car roof rack, the holes in the side rails are more than sufficient to do as you describe. In fact, I never would have posted, as it would have just worked fine without having to think about it.)

Random image I hotlinked of a Gen-4 roof rack in the "cross rail" configuration. Note the complete lack of side-rails:

...the only way a loop of taut webbing (or whatever) could slide off the crossbars and off the side rail would be ONLY if the crossbar end becomes unfastened! Even then, the larger ends may be just large enough to hold the board on the racks long enough to stop the car and make necessary adjustments!

I wasn't really worried about it sliding off the side completely - more that it could easily wiggle left-to-right or rotate, which would be unstable and loosen itself up. I've been lashing stuff to the roof for years, and I like to make sure that whatever I put up there can't move around, because once it starts moving, all bets are off for how loose it will make itself. With something like a board it's less of a big deal, but things with odd shapes can be a problem. If it rotates or slides, the strap could end up moving to a part with a different (smaller) diameter, and now it's loose enough for a strap or rope to come undone. Just a bad idea in general to allow things on the roof to move!

Couple of things first off the nylon webbing straps with hooks are terrible tie down tools. The webbing will stretch some and hooks that are not captive simply fall loose and come off.
When your lashing down to anything it is always best to tie vs hook unless your hooks are captive ie have locking gates on them to keep them hooked.

I disagree, but the point is a good one. Hooks can slip off, and it's important to pay attention to what cargo you are securing and how you are hooking. You need the angle of the hook to be such that it is not prone to coming unhooked. You definitely want to also tie the hook down (or use a captive hook), especially if the cargo has some "give" to it (learned this lesson when transporting a motorcycle - shocks on a bike bouncing on the highway can easily make a hook come "unhooked"). The benefits of these straps are that they are very easy to use, very easy to tighten, and hold very securely - IF there is a good solid point to attach them to (a side-bar or a ring).

A skilled boy scout can surely do a bang-up job with knotting up some rope to get a similar effect, but it's still not easy to match the mechanical advantage of a ratchet without a very complicated rope setup. On my previous vehicle (Jeep Liberty with Thule bars), I routinely dropped a canoe on the roof and threw a pair of ratchet straps over the belly. Didn't even need to tie down bow and stern - the only way that canoe was moving in any direction was if the roof came off. I would not attempt that with the subaru, though, as there's just no way to get the same result without a side-mounting point. When Yakima comes out with a Landing Pad that is 2013 compatible, I'll use the ends of a yakima bar that extend past the mount point and should be able to make that work satisfactorily.

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by Se7enLC

Bingo. 2010-2013 Outbacks have no openings in the side rails - unless you leave the cross rails in the side-rail position (and then you have no cross rails!)

(This is why I posted in the Gen 4 sub-forum - I figured people with a Gen 4 would understand the roof rack issue. With a normal car roof rack, the holes in the side rails are more than sufficient to do as you describe. In fact, I never would have posted, as it would have just worked fine without having to think about it.)

Random image I hotlinked of a Gen-4 roof rack in the "cross rail" configuration. Note the complete lack of side-rails:

I wasn't really worried about it sliding off the side completely - more that it could easily wiggle left-to-right or rotate, which would be unstable and loosen itself up. I've been lashing stuff to the roof for years, and I like to make sure that whatever I put up there can't move around, because once it starts moving, all bets are off for how loose it will make itself. With something like a board it's less of a big deal, but things with odd shapes can be a problem. If it rotates or slides, the strap could end up moving to a part with a different (smaller) diameter, and now it's loose enough for a strap or rope to come undone. Just a bad idea in general to allow things on the roof to move!

I disagree, but the point is a good one. Hooks can slip off, and it's important to pay attention to what cargo you are securing and how you are hooking. You need the angle of the hook to be such that it is not prone to coming unhooked. You definitely want to also tie the hook down (or use a captive hook), especially if the cargo has some "give" to it (learned this lesson when transporting a motorcycle - shocks on a bike bouncing on the highway can easily make a hook come "unhooked"). The benefits of these straps are that they are very easy to use, very easy to tighten, and hold very securely - IF there is a good solid point to attach them to (a side-bar or a ring).

A skilled boy scout can surely do a bang-up job with knotting up some rope to get a similar effect, but it's still not easy to match the mechanical advantage of a ratchet without a very complicated rope setup. On my previous vehicle (Jeep Liberty with Thule bars), I routinely dropped a canoe on the roof and threw a pair of ratchet straps over the belly. Didn't even need to tie down bow and stern - the only way that canoe was moving in any direction was if the roof came off. I would not attempt that with the subaru, though, as there's just no way to get the same result without a side-mounting point. When Yakima comes out with a Landing Pad that is 2013 compatible, I'll use the ends of a yakima bar that extend past the mount point and should be able to make that work satisfactorily.

Look up "Truckers Hitch tie down" it is as capable as any strap ratchet - it is what they used before straps and ratchets. Possibly the simplest knot and use of a rope anyone could ever be familiar with if they ever haul stuff period.

Canoes are easy to tie down on cross bars given their shape. () - widest part in the center ie cross bar area - with taper at both ends this alone makes the hull less prone to sliding fore and aft. The bow and stern tie are there to reduce twisting ie levering of the whole package by wind loads.

Tying to a cross bar outside of the mount ie the tie can slip off the end - is easily addressed with a simple check tie to the inner side ie inside of the cross bar bracket. If you run 66 inch bars like I do that is a must given the side to side slip factor must be kept in check by having ties to the inner rack area to hold the load center from slipping side to side.

I car top a 12ft 55inch wide 135lb racing sailboat this way works perfectly fine even in high winds on the highway - the hard part is getting it on the rack tying it down is the easy part.

[Se7enLC]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

Look up "Truckers Hitch tie down" it is as capable as any strap ratchet - it is what they used before straps and ratchets. Possibly the simplest knot and use of a rope anyone could ever be familiar with if they ever haul stuff period.

I keep meaning to become more proficient with ropes and knots, maybe this poor roof rack will be the kick I need! I'm not convinced that the Trucker's hitch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is as good as a ratchet. The hitch provides a theoretical maximum mechanical advantage of 3:1 (assuming no rope friction, if you can believe that!) and more like a 1:1 for realistic cases. A ratchet is more like 13:1 (according to some slackline site, I can't find many other references - but I believe if I understand it right, the length of the lever sets the ratio, so long as the rest of the mechanism can handle it)

Ropes are fine for a lot of things, but just like ratchets they rely on the user to not screw things up. I've seen too many people flying down the road with a mattress tied to their roof with a piece of twine tied like a shoelace!

Tying to a cross bar outside of the mount ie the tie can slip off the end - is easily addressed with a simple check tie to the inner side ie inside of the cross bar bracket. If you run 66 inch bars like I do that is a must given the side to side slip factor must be kept in check by having ties to the inner rack area to hold the load center from slipping side to side.

Not an option on a 2013 - there is no "outside the mount". And no 66" bars :-( At least not until Yakima finishes their Landing Pad update.

I just pulled the trigger and purchased a MegaWarrior basket to fix this and other roof rack problems. I'm sure it will decimate my gas mileage, but it seems like it's currently the best available option. The top of the basket will act like a normal-width (48") yakima crossbar, and the basket itself will provide the side rails for lashing things down. Now I just need to grow 6" taller!

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by Se7enLC

I keep meaning to become more proficient with ropes and knots, maybe this poor roof rack will be the kick I need! I'm not convinced that the Trucker's hitch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is as good as a ratchet. The hitch provides a theoretical maximum mechanical advantage of 3:1 (assuming no rope friction, if you can believe that!) and more like a 1:1 for realistic cases. A ratchet is more like 13:1 (according to some slackline site, I can't find many other references - but I believe if I understand it right, the length of the lever sets the ratio, so long as the rest of the mechanism can handle it)

Ropes are fine for a lot of things, but just like ratchets they rely on the user to not screw things up. I've seen too many people flying down the road with a mattress tied to their roof with a piece of twine tied like a shoelace!



grow 6" taller!

LOL - Note my name Subiesailor - I do lots of wild stuff with ropes which have no set job - a "line" has a set purpose or job it is required to do ;-) there are no ropes on a Sailboat only Lines.

I learned how to use the trucker hitch as a kid working on the ranch and hauling loads in the truck. You can use a truckers hitch multiple times on the same piece of rope for more pulling power if needed - though rarely ever have I had to do that. Especially with toys which you can easily crush with one single truckers hitch.

Last winter I had to use two for more winch power to hoist a tree limb out of the swollen creek behind our house the limb was laying across the culvert and backing up the water and catching more debri causing the water level to raise about 2ft higher than it normally did during a rain storm. One of my old halyards high tech line - out of the tool shed strung from a near by tree and a couple of truckers hitches and I had the 15ft limb hauled out of the creek in about 10 minutes by my self. We had to cut it up to haul it out too big to carry out.

[imp81318]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

LOL - Note my name Subiesailor - I do lots of wild stuff with ropes which have no set job - a "line" has a set purpose or job it is required to do ;-) there are no ropes on a Sailboat only Lines.

I learned how to use the trucker hitch as a kid working on the ranch and hauling loads in the truck. You can use a truckers hitch multiple times on the same piece of rope for more pulling power if needed - though rarely ever have I had to do that. Especially with toys which you can easily crush with one single truckers hitch.

Last winter I had to use two for more winch power to hoist a tree limb out of the swollen creek behind our house the limb was laying across the culvert and backing up the water and catching more debri causing the water level to raise about 2ft higher than it normally did during a rain storm. One of my old halyards high tech line - out of the tool shed strung from a near by tree and a couple of truckers hitches and I had the 15ft limb hauled out of the creek in about 10 minutes by my self. We had to cut it up to haul it out too big to carry out.

Thanks for hte tip. I've seen and even used this type of knot before, but never knew the name for it and never really gave much thought to the increased power in cinching the load tight. When you used it to pull the tree limb out of the creek, did you basically just use the knots like a series of pullies?

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by imp81318

Thanks for hte tip. I've seen and even used this type of knot before, but never knew the name for it and never really gave much thought to the increased power in cinching the load tight. When you used it to pull the tree limb out of the creek, did you basically just use the knots like a series of pullies?

Yes

[vr4Legacy]

I agree the current design doesn't seem to have been designed by anyone who hauls misc stuff.

I wrap the strap around the bar on one side of the board, feed the strap through the hook, then cross over the board and wrap it around the bar on the other side. Take that straight back and repeat. Once you tighten it down the straps lock into a notch on the underside of the bar and hold it side to side. I usually end up running another strap front to back as Cobalt mentioned to keep it secure fore and aft.

[Se7enLC]

Originally Posted by vr4Legacy

I agree the current design doesn't seem to have been designed by anyone who hauls misc stuff.

I wrap the strap around the bar on one side of the board, feed the strap through the hook, then cross over the board and wrap it around the bar on the other side. Take that straight back and repeat. Once you tighten it down the straps lock into a notch on the underside of the bar and hold it side to side. I usually end up running another strap front to back as Cobalt mentioned to keep it secure fore and aft.

Notch on the underside of the bar? I guess I need to take a closer look at my bars, I just assumed they were as smooth on the bottom as they are on the top.

[OBnube]

Originally Posted by Se7enLC

Notch on the underside of the bar? I guess I need to take a closer look at my bars, I just assumed they were as smooth on the bottom as they are on the top.

The '13s have eliminated the "notches" on the underside of the crossbars. There used to be short rubber pieces with spaces in between on the previous years. At times they could interfere with accesory clamps on the rails.

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by Se7enLC

Notch on the underside of the bar? I guess I need to take a closer look at my bars, I just assumed they were as smooth on the bottom as they are on the top.

Two wraps around the cross bar allows the strap to grip the bar as you pull it tight. If your just passing the strap under the bar and then tying it the strap isn't gripping the bar beyond where it crosses under it.

I haul lots of random stuff on the stock rack no issues and its the same effort when using the Yakima gear. The toughest item I haul are mast sections for my boat "Boom" which are fairly slick and 15ft long. The strap down process involves getting a good grip on the mast section and then getting a good tight lashing to the cross bars. The only way to get a good grip is a full wrap around the mast section and having leverage to pull the strap very tight around the mast section. Then lashing to the cross bars is the easy part.

The big test to lashing down this type of item was a back up spinnaker pole lashed to a boom on a race boat. We covered 1900 miles of heavy ocean racing before I had to cut the pole free when we destroyed our first one in a round down about 300 miles from the finish line.

Again nylon webbing strapping with wraps around the object then enough purchase to cinch it very tight around the pole - then lashing from there to the object your holding it to. I used trucker hitches with the webbing in that case. The only way for us to free the 14ft long pole was to cut it free.