2013 OBW vs. 2014 Forester - by the numbers

[awd-gg]

Originally Posted by Looby

I'm sure many of us 2.5 buyers could easily afford a 3.6 Limited, but
personally, it wouldn't even be on my shopping list for similarly priced
and similarly equipped cars.

...the market has spoken,

Looby

nobody taking abt affordability... the price is $3K diff.(Limited vs limited back in 2010) for most Consumers, it is a non issue....

Just because there are people prefer 2,5, that doesn;t mean there are NO market for 3.6..... We are into 4 yrs of this 3.6R and Subaru still have NOT killed this engine.... The (3.6) Market has spoken.....

If you go back to the previous gen, the H6 is still very popular (even with the added cost of premium gas requirement).... People in this forum here looking Always looking for the H6 and speak highly of this H6 engine.... SAd to say, The H4 reliability history is NOT very good due some very well published HG issues in the past.

There is a Market for H6 Currently and in the past. There is NO reason to beleive thing should change dragstically in the near future!

[awd-gg]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

^ what he said -- 3.6 is a novelty car in the Subaru line up. 3.6 is a nice engine but doesn't add much to the OB platform in practical use or application. For the price of the 3.6 it wouldn't even be on my shopping list lots of really nice vehicles out there with really nice V6's that offer more performance than the 3.6 OB for the price.

The 3.6 Legacy however would be an interesting option over the competitors like Camry, Altima - etc given you get good handling decent performance tied to AWD. Not the fastest of the bunch but your at least getting a platform that handles better than the competition.

Just because a car is a little more power doesn't means the owner get it for Performance (around a corner)..... I don't race at all (heck, I used to drive an 93hp HCH) but I do appreciate a little better resposiveness whenever I need to accelerate (for over taking, Merging to hwy, switch lane on freeway, or even climbing a small hill....)

to turn thing around, someone can claim you don't need 2.5CVT, a 2.0 CVT is MORE than sufficient (on a OB) and They probably can also claim there wasn;t a single time They felt the the car needed more power!!!
sound familiar!

WHo Would even look at SUV/CUV if they want "street performance"!!!!

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by awd-gg

Just because a car is a little more power doesn't means the owner get it for Performance (around a corner)..... I don't race at all (heck, I used to drive an 93hp HCH) but I do appreciate a little better resposiveness whenever I need to accelerate (for over taking, Merging to hwy, switch lane on freeway, or even climbing a small hill....)

to turn thing around, someone can claim you don't need 2.5CVT, a 2.0 CVT is MORE than sufficient (on a OB) and They probably can also claim there wasn;t a single time They felt the the car needed more power!!!
sound familiar!

WHo Would even look at SUV/CUV if they want "street performance"!!!!

If the Ob was offered in a 2L di engine format with CVT that posted even just marginal mileage advantage over the 2.5 I would have probably bought it and used it just as I use the 2.5. The sales numbers of the 3.6 show that your take on why you wanted it is far from the norm. I get it - if I wanted a more responsive seat of the pants experience to the throttle I would simply drive my 4.7L V8 5spd more.

[vr4Legacy]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

I even played with the idea if we bought an XV what would I want? I drove a new 5spd MT Impreza fun car! And to be honest even as a MT kinda Guy I have a hard time with what we would do if we got the XV given the XV in CVT format really looses nothing to the 5spd MT and gains some technical off road ability where the MT gearing would suffer. Sure rowing my own gears is fun but thinking I might reserve that for the sports car we get some day.

But here is where the flaw in that plan is.

With less and less manufacturers offering an MT in any car, leads to less people learning the joy driving a MT. Then as those people become ablet o buy a performance car that can take full advantage they are then unable to drive a MT, so manufacturers stop offering them.

It's a downward spiral, that unfortunately the AT is going to win.

I only hope that I can get my son a MT in 15 years so he can learn the joy of driving one. I also feel an MT makes you more alert and in general a safer driver. It's hard to text and shift at the same time

Good info here
Save the Manuals! Official Headquarters – Car and Driver

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by vr4Legacy

But here is where the flaw in that plan is.

With less and less manufacturers offering an MT in any car, leads to less people learning the joy driving a MT. Then as those people become ablet o buy a performance car that can take full advantage they are then unable to drive a MT, so manufacturers stop offering them.

It's a downward spiral, that unfortunately the AT is going to win.

I only hope that I can get my son a MT in 15 years so he can learn the joy of driving one. I also feel an MT makes you more alert and in general a safer driver. It's hard to text and shift at the same time

Good info here
Save the Manuals! Official Headquarters – Car and Driver

Manuals in 15yrs maybe in a 10yr old car LOL or a car specifically designed to provide a special driving experience with said MT. Today's AT's are smarter and more efficient than the Human software being used to shift MT's LOL.

I couldn't hardly give my 5spd MT Legacy GT Limited AWAY to the local HS kids. None of them had any interest in a MT car. LOL Having said that when that car was sold the 5spd MT was FAR FAR FAR SUPERIOR to the 4spd AT that was sold as the alternative. Today's cars thats not the case the AT's are in most cases return decent performance making the MT less of a performance choice and more of a Driving EXPERIENCE choice. Which case the rest of the driving package with the car needs to also be part of the EXPERIENCE -- example BRZ, Miata, 911 - etc.

[Looby]

Originally Posted by vr4Legacy

With less and less manufacturers offering an MT in any car,
leads to less people learning the joy driving a MT. ....

That's not all bad. My daughters (who had no choice but to
learn to drive MT) loved the fact that high school friends --
and especially, boyfriends -- couldn't borrow their cars.

Looby

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

Manuals in 15yrs maybe in a 10yr old car LOL or a car specifically designed to provide a special driving experience with said MT. Today's AT's are smarter and more efficient than the Human software being used to shift MT's LOL.

A lot of that is due too the manufacturers messing with the MT trying to make it behave more like an auto along with choosing the wrong gears for the MT to begin with.

My 2008 Tacoma 6 spd MT was rated less MPG then the auto not because the computer could out think my shifting but because Toyota chose for whatever reason to give the auto a taller final drive ratio over the MT, so @ 60MPH my MT truck would cruise along about 300 on the tach higher then the auto would so of course I used more gas to get from point A to B.

[awd-gg]

Originally Posted by Looby

That's not all bad. My daughters (who had no choice but to
learn to drive MT) loved the fact that high school friends --
and especially, boyfriends -- couldn't borrow their cars.

Looby

not to mentioned today's car jackers don;t know how to drive stick!!!

as far as performance car, no one is looking at CVT to replace MT, it is the Twin clutch/rev matching transmission that will be MT's main competition....not CVT!

[awd-gg]

Originally Posted by subiesailor

I get it - if I wanted a more responsive seat of the pants experience to the throttle I would simply drive my 4.7L V8 5spd more.

so you get your Sequioa (V8, 4.7L, 5spd)for twisty road high speed performance? of course not... so stop telling everyone 3.6R is NOT suitable for OB because the OB handle like a whale due to it high GC and cannot take on all that added HP!!!!

3.6R not for you....OK, we get it!

[subiesailor]

Originally Posted by awd-gg

so you get your Sequioa (V8, 4.7L, 5spd)for twisty road high speed performance? of course not... so stop telling everyone 3.6R is NOT suitable for OB because the OB handle like a whale due to it high GC and cannot take on all that added HP!!!!

3.6R not for you....OK, we get it!

Lol your the one who clearly has the issue GG. The OB is a pig regardless which engine it has so why bother paying for the more expensive one? The Ob is no more a canyon carver than my Sequoia is.lol