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FrankenWagon IV...KBPI Car Show XII...3x for tdck

62K views 583 replies 28 participants last post by  Firebat 
#1 ·
Well, I'm up to my old tricks. That makes sense, old dumb dog here...

Last night I was so sick of my car, a few hours sleep...I am recharged. As much as you say, I won't miss her. I am better off without her. You miss that b*tch. Even if she was an incredible one.

Lizzy Hale...(Halestrom...that is music folks)...says it best..."I miss the misery"

I promise that this thread will be less picture heavy, at least a lot less yellow and blue picture heavy. I think EVERYONE knows what my engine compartment looks like by now. LOL.

I would love to get the car sprayed. She's getting kinda rough on the skin. So, I will of course has pictures if that happens. No, Build 4 will be primarily tuning. Almost definitely a new fuel rail. Looking at other cars from the show, I see what my clearance issues have been. The TGV's that I have from the '97. They have a different mounting point on the casting for the fuel rail. The STI fuel rail I started with has different inlet and outlet points and the STI has a different turbo orientation.

It appears a SpecB rail is what I need. At least to start with, maybe it won't even need modification. It will need very little, if it does. It even looks as if many of the aftermarket systems won't work. The Perrin will, as it has inlets and outlet common to one end. That is what I need. Not on each side of the tube, like all of the others.

I don't have the coin for the Perrin, luckily...I don't need it right now. I have approximately 364-ish days to pester all of you with my Folly. Here we go again.
 

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#3 ·
good ideas to brood on:

selling the impreza stuff,...and adding legacy spec B stuff.

maybe the time to work on this is when the snow is flying,
...until then,...don't forget to drain the gas out,...or at least take it out once a week.

 
#4 ·
I checked the fuel pressure on both side of the FPR from Super Rupair (in the car). I run the test gauge in the car, under hood as part of the operating system now. I don't think the FPR from SR is good. The pressure is fluctuating, only 3-5psi...but it is bouncing. It is still not the main problem, but a component. The stock pump...is now "hotwired" and getting a steady 12.4-12.8 v. I do not know what happens under load, but the voltage I do not expect changes. I have tapped in from a dash auxiliary wire.

The pump, pre-FPR is only delivering 24-28psi. The XT needs 30-38psi. The same pump was delivering 42psi. So I think the pump is bad also. Changing back to the DW65 upgrade will shed some light on that.

I drove her around today. The EGT was cool, AFR, barely ever lean...but very...VERY babied. So I have very much work to do. I put the original FPR back on the car and it is better than yesterday. No hills or big load tho. And only better by a 1/2 measure. Not really of any significance...if I am actually looking to tap into all those potential ej25 dohc turbo H4 ponies.

Much to do.
 
#8 ·
The SpecB rail has a top feed injector set up...But the injector top feed tube has the feed and return rail coming out around the TGVs...both on the front of the motor. The Regular XT, and LGT have the same plumbing/running, but are side feed injectores. So that would be the only difference. They have a diferent turbo outlet orientation to the TMIC.

In my case, I have a much larger turbo...but in the stock OB XT, LGT, and '08-'12 WRX/STI turbo orientation. Which is different than the Fozzy, the older WRX, the newest STI. So my STI rail wants to run a return line where my turbo joins to the Perrin turbo inlet.

I have worked around it with the rail I built. But my fuel pressure is not good. The SpecB bring both the supply and return out on one side...like the Perrin I attched. But TOP feed vs XT SIDE feed.

PM me if you want the crazy specs and pics and deets.
 
#6 ·
Also...I found that Frank attracts all kinds of attention. Including attention from law enforcement. You have to expect that with blue wheels and stickers. But, noise violation...that's BS. My AVO 3" is no fart box...followed by a crackling firework display. She is a deep, throaty...and almost zero drone. Or **** it, No drone. It is not a loud rumble even, because it has a more efficient equal length header from Perrin.

It sounds more like my Corvair with the race headers.... or a mellow helicopter...than it does a bug-eye-fart-boxxer. But. there was no point in swimming up-hill with a "hourly guy". It's not a sleeper anymore if she looks like a hooker. Frank and me were probably asking for it. Be we were not mis-behaving. Profiling is funny tho. The 40 something Cop...was somewhat shaken by the near 50's driver.

LOL
 
#7 ·
on one of those 2015 WRX and STI videos the auto press made last year when they were running the canyons in california. the driver commented the local cops in the village pulled them over stating they could hear the car coming down for miles before they saw it,...notifying them of the village noise ordnance. ...(these being stone stock press cars,...without any rice burner parts,...and I think the one they pulled over was the WRX,...as the STI was not available to this crew that day).

...looks like a duck must be a duck,...looks like a rice burner must be a rice burner. ....I guess they would not pull you over at all if you were looking as sleeper = OEM as possible.
 
#9 ·
I need to wear my oversize...Scion...trucker hat sideways and pull my socks up. Change them from black or grey to white, then unbutton my checked shirt...only on the bottom. I am already rocking the Dickie's Shorts...(Paul Walker 2 Fast 2 Furious-style). They are my "Hot Summer" short pants...Carhartts are my "3 season lowers". A tradesman has a hard time in short pants. Ever drop some solder down between the tongue of your logger boot and your shin. Well, I have. It s*cks. I was not happy for for than a minute or 2. I won't make that mistake again. If you have a torch in your hand, you should have long pants on your legs. That goes double for a chain saw...LOL.

Right. In a couple years...I'm gonna be a 50 year old white guy. Do I have to grow up? If I am viewed as a punk kid?

:iam:
 
#12 ·
Yeah, I found all this out building 3 custom fuel rails...instead of paying Perrin $500

XT and LGT...'05-'09 are only (Legacy based turbo) models with side feed injectors...I dunno for sure the Baja. It could be like the old school wrx and be top feed or it could be side feed. I have no idea about Fozzy Xt's. They are the red-headed...stepchild.
 
#14 ·
I like this thread. Trail and patrik having a serious chat about rails. While Trail and EE are talking about god knows what....
 
#15 ·
Yeah, EE and I can hi-jack a thread pretty quickly on our own. Put, us together and we can dig quite a few deep divergent holes, before you know it. I don't know how others feel about that when they are the OP. When it's me, I just dive in and just consider it a "group feeding".
 
#18 ·
Well there is another show next year. Maybe 3rd time (3X) will be a charm. I need to actually run a real 1/4 mile at some point. And I seemingly would rather continually wrench, than drive.

Honestly Man, we met...I am not much in the flesh. This is just my silly, narrow, attempt at keeping my self promotion...( and the single most messed up station wagon on the planet) rolling.
 
#19 ·
So does anyone know where I can get all of the voltage and resistance information for my car? Will that information be in the dealer-service-manual-download?

I have some really weird stuff going on with the car. I am seeing it manifest in my fuel issues. But I don't want to just run down each rabbit hole. I need to do some testing.

For example, I was searching problems with the purge control solodide. I following up on some of my own thoughts regarding something I read on PlainOM's "IAM logging" thread. I found (on LGT forum).information like this...that the resistance...should be "35ohms", when the green test connector is plugged in and the fans are cycling, voltage should drop to about 11v and then cycle back and forth to battery voltage.

My fuel pump and sending unit voltage are not right. The pump will not put out more than 24 psi at all, ever now. And after driving, the fuel pressure is back down to 18 psi. The readings are unaffected by swapping the fuel pressure regulator with a spare.

So, as ya'll see. I want to test voltages and resistances of many things on the car. I don't want to try to hunt all over each time. I would rather gather my data...before I dive in on a problem now. There is too much conflicting information, when you go in blind. Simple electrical data seems like a more controlled way to start.
 
#20 ·
The information about what voltage to expect at various points is scattered in different documents.

In each of the major function sections (engine, transmission, ABS etc) where a "control module" is used, there's usually a diagnostics section, and within that two relevant areas. One is the module I/O (input/output) table, which lists each of the module's connector terminals and what voltage or signal is normally present there. The other is the DTC trouble shooting guides, which often will suggest voltage or signal measurements, and resistance, at certain locations.

But, unfortunately, there isn't a comprehensive table/section that has all the voltages and signals.

Given the work you're doing, I would suggest registering at the Subaru Technical Information System - Welcome site for a 72-hour subscription (~$35) and download the files for the latest FSM for your car. You probably won't need to include the 2.5 non-turbo or H6 engine sections, nor the 4EAT or MT sections, except for additional late night reading, so that can a fair amount of downloading time. Then a bit of organizing the many pdf files into preferred groups, and it's done. Because the files are pdfs they can be searched easily to find things, but eventually the layout of the manual becomes apparent and finding the needed section is just a matter of selecting the appropriate file.

There are some copies of manuals on websites that are available for no cost. The problem I have with them is that there's nothing to confirm what year the manual, or sections thereof, is for. It's all too easy to post a manual for a 2007 as a 2006, because the documents themselves aren't identified on the pages. Probably a lot of the information is the same for both years, but some might well not be. Also, some of them that I've looked at are missing major sections, and this is found out only after downloading the single file (in this case) of about 85 MB. If that section was important to you, you're little further ahead. And, Subaru tends to revise the manuals for some time after the initial MY release, so there could be a number of versions (my 07 manual is at version 35); again there's no way to tell which version had been uploaded to the sites. (The 2006 would probably now be in a final state -- it's not likely that specs or procedures are still being changed.)

Back to your pump issue, is the Fuel Pump duty cycle now remaining low all the times?
 
#24 ·
Back to your pump issue, is the Fuel Pump duty cycle now remaining low all the times?
Yes...33% FP duty cycle. ???

Thanks For the manual information.
tdck, I've been following your build and am totally impressed with it. Seriously, it's farking awesome. I'm currently gathering parts to begin my own rebuild, but it's going to be mainly just making mine reliable, no real power increase.

Anyway, you're getting sucked down into that deep electrical rabbit hole. I saw where during your reassembly you were finding a lot of broken electrical connectors and the like on various sensors. I'm wondering if you're still not getting an errant reading from a sensor that's causing the fuel pump to shut down.

If you're going to successfully diagnose issues dealing with duty cycles, you're probably going to need an oscilloscope. You can get USB based ones for under $100 off ebay. That's going to be the only way to see exactly what the computer is sending to the pump.

If I lived within a couple hours of ya, I'd help. I like a good electrical mystery, but hate actually diagnosing it. Ha. Maybe when I tear mine apart I can get some readings and post them for you.
 
#23 ·
Thanks Again. I very much appreciate your time. Don't kill yourself though. I know you are chasing your own phantoms. I am ramping back my efforts here a bit. I will take advantage of downloading the service manual. Then start a slow methodical check, once again of all of the vacuum lines, anything tied to the intake or the fueling venting. Then start checking voltages and resistance based upon the same digging you are doing, plus my own. I need to make the effort and join up over at the LGT forum too. I have been lurking there for quite a while. Like here, you can'y search or participate unless you join.

I can get some parts cheap at SuperRupair, spares or testing blocks, I Guess. The car is going to have to take a little of a back seat, (lol) for a little while. I'll need to put tuning on hold. Before I spend all of my Stage 3 with XRT on diagnostics.

I can't believe how fast the summer went in my garage. I bought B a bike, I think I'll play daddy for a while. At least through the weekend. Start bending my brain around Frank again next week. That's not to say that she doesn't wake me up all night long as my brain stays bent.
 
#26 ·
this thread needs more pics,...looks kind of naked,...boring.

edit: "Francine Piaia" of Brazil

 
#28 ·
So...I am working on a FrankenBike today. It is a "triathlon Special" from Myatta. Circa '85 on the frame. I rode it for 18 months as a messenger in Boston....circa '89-'90. I got hit by a cab and "pinwheeled" into...some concrete steps (Rasterman) on the MIT campus. Fractured "my left foot", for the 2nd time....I have injured the same foot so many times, I can tell the weather by the b*tch now...So yeah...tdck did "4 seasons as a pedal messenger in Beantown". Hard core, '88-'92, you ought to see what the Financial Center looks like on Christmas Day, Pre---Fax---and emal. MadMax-ish...

Recently...2 things happened. I bought little "B" a bike with...gears, hand brakes, a free-wheel and a shock. Spoiler alert, it cost more $ than my Gary Fisher I bought on my 1st Honeymoon in BarHarbor.

No ****...****...sheit...whatever the sensors allow. :ucrazy: To me

And I Then (happily)...through, the course of "life"...I..."liberated" a high $ bike to another member (from here). He has an amazing, talented son, who needed some "college transportation". Come, on...kids in college need a bike right?

This forum, OBF, is more powerful than many will ever know.

But...it also got me working on my own 2 pedal ride, so I can ride with B. And I haven't been on it about 28 years. Only this specific bike, I have been riding constantly, just different rigs. BTW, through my entire life, I have slummed in bike and ski shops as full/part-time wrench. I wrench bikes better than cars. More"Franken" and "Custom" too. Wrench skills are always in "demand" ??? Across many genres...but seldom valued.

Pics pendings.
 
#29 ·
Geez dude, calm down, I need you alive to answer odd ball questions of mine. :25: Are you my brother from another mother?

Tri-Frankenbike :D I'll race you, my Trek FX 7.1 is modded for winter, needs a tune badly though. It's a heavy bike, Continental Top Contact Winter Tires (28"), Sturmy Archer two speed kick back hub with coaster brake, everything else stock brakes, triple multi speed chain rings, only a single speed size chain and spare seat.

Ski slum brother? I was kicked out of Arapahoe Basin, CO 2006, kicked out of Telluride, CO 2008, kicked out of Boyne Mountain, MI 2012, kicked out of Mt. McSauba, MI 2014. I'm no big wrench, but I know my way around enough that I get angry when people fuct with me. They even jailed me in prison orange over a weekend 2008 for my exploits. Thus seven years doing nothing (maybe I broke a mirror in my past life) except depression, literally wasting away on my ass, sometimes homeless, unemployed. I think I might be getting my momentum back from being a total sleezyskeezy skier.
My brother and family are still in Denver, they just never call, I am that amped when it comes to the sport.

Anyways, this must read more of ramblings of mad man than productive interviewing. It is always good to have friends from every walk, when my back cannot push the pedals any further.

btw: do SKF bearings/hub cause ABS/CC errors? rockauto shows they do not cover ABS applications, I do not know if that is a misprint, I had to.

Franken for life!
 
#30 ·
We sound quite a bit alike. I lived in Montrose, Co for 10 years. The San Juan (Telluride) backcountry is quite sick. It was much easy to to work 50 hour weeks and still get turns and rides in out there, on the way to...from...or while working. I did quite a bit of mountain property construction in those days.

I have been skiing "freeheel" telemark style for the whole time I have been out West. It is more flexible in the backcountry, or way less expensive than the good AT gear. In those years I have skied some awesome, even vintage gear. I put about a dozen days in on some original Chounaird Cables one season.

Besides, if I'd have stayed locked down, I'd be dead. Like your exploits...I needed some challenge, for strength, speed and some grace. And I don't need anymore weekend rides in county either. BTW, how do you get kicked off A-Basin...the place is a resident Zoo???

Telemark is certainly tough. I'd rather skin up sometimes than ski down...LOL. Yeah, I though it was a move toward safety. I just switched up my danger boy stuff, started ice climbing instead.

That's WAY...Safer, right... Not!
 
#37 ·
BTW, how do you get kicked off A-Basin...the place is a resident Zoo???
Text ahead.

That is the exact thing I was thinking as I typed it. Story goes, it was their 60th Anniversary year, I was a budding new lift operator with a reputation, as two of my close in age (dr. parent racers) cousins (they bracket me in age) had worked lifts there previously.

Well I ski, though they never skied with me, so like a low self esteem kid who still wants it all, I followed in their footsteps, signed to work lifts, and when the mechs were pushing their test runs and the base (3 chair lift) stopped abruptly one time, I forgot to check the hydraulic drop brake, as if I knew what to do about it, and every other redundancy was to fail. The next issue was I asked ski patrol one morning if the lift was ready to turn, people were waiting, and I forgot what time open was supposed to be, thus when ski patrol gave me the go ahead, I opened the lift. Well my boss didn't like that, and I was to the point where nobody was getting hurt from my understanding so I quit right there, if you know what I mean, not violent, but loud.

I probably over do it, but I love being on my sticks, and fighting gravity. I don't even mind coming up short to case all so often. Double eject blow outs, it is all fun to me. Probably why I am all fuct up. Hope you know.
 
#31 ·
FrankenBike Myatta 512

As promised. FrankenBike. She's light, strong, supple (lugged steel)cheap ....and twitchy. She's got a "Rocket Ring" for a sprocket. And, the couch or all handlebar grips...OURY. When it started out, it was a pretty decent triathlete bike back in '85. I used for about 2 seasons as a messenger around '89-'90. My little brother hammered it as a trainer for about 10 years. I think it going into service as my DD.

Now, since Frank is being a B*tch, and B*tch Kitty is starting to do the same. She needs much love or she's gonna quit on me too. An oil change at a minimum, but I'm broke. So...I think since B is with her Mom for the next week...I will be "logging miles", pun definitely intended there, on FrankenBike.

As far as progress on the sleeping monster? I am now leaning toward the MAP sensor. Not that it necessarily is bad, but something related to the vacuum it gets, and the 000s and 111s it affects. I have been reading much from other forums ( (nasioc and LGT) on issues similar to mine. The problem is, there are few cars MOD'd like Frank. BUT, I will say this..I really need to get the service manual information...and a better electrical tester. WHOOPS.

I frigg'n blew out all of my gauges. Yeah...Whoops. Hopefully it's just a fuse. We shall see. See kids, this is why you don't Mod your car.
 

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#32 ·
probably a wealth of information on the other sites with members here and there that have done similar things.



_________

how many lbs does that 1985 bike weigh in at?
 
#34 ·
I guess I will have call her "Twitch Kitty". The bike I mean. I rode it into Downtown for Little Bs back to school night. 12 miles each way, give or take. I pretty much followed the Platte.

I might still have the eyes for the the tight line, and a bit of messenger crazy left in me. But, if it were not for how "twitchy" quick she is, my fatally old instincts, and very, very good rubber....tdck might be dead. I think it was all the bike.

And 2 things, this 46 year old does not have the lungs and legs of a 22 year old Boston bike messenger. Not by a longshot, no wonder Lance was juicin' it.

I am going to actually now going to spend some time with the car and see what I might be able to accomplish.
 
#35 ·
the mile high city is not sea level like boston either.
 
#36 ·
Good point.

But I have been here 15 years. I might puke on my 1st day pushing it, each season, going up too hard and too fast. But, It is both the years and the mileage on this "chassis", I think.

Sorry to say.

Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control...leads to being Busted...both Body and Bank ($)...and most likely...institutionalized.
 
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