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01 Outback VDC H6 head gasket questions

8K views 54 replies 8 participants last post by  eagleeye 
#1 ·
Well just got home from Greg's Japanese Auto with some bad news.. Looks like i have a blown head gasket on my 01 VDC Outback i just bought last month.. :(

My question is i was quoted $3100 out the door and an extra 300-350 if the heads need to be machined.. Is this a good deal or the norm for this job ?? I know this job is way more than i want to take on being i'm not that familiar with Subaru's being this is my first one.

All these head gasket issues are new to me, i did lots of research ahead of time before buying this car and all i read was the H6 motor was way better than the 2.5 and didn't have the head gasket issues.. That was the whole reason i decided to go with the VDC H6 model. This really sucks as this car was a one owner with all the documentation and service records, and all looked good on Car Fax. I guess this may be why i got the car for $4500 out the door..:|
 
#2 ·



Did you buy this car from a person or from a business?

what you got is a lemon, does not have the systemic head gasket problem of the H4 engines, but just like any other car on the road is subjected to people that will drive the car although it is over heating on them to the point that the engine starts to melt down. (like Chernobyl)


you can read through this whole thread, you can get a running low miles H6 EZ30D engine out of a car that was crashed in the rear end for a lot cheaper then doing head gaskets.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/158018-well-they-fixed-my-hg-s-but-killed-rest.html

Where are you located in the world.?
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the link, i'll read through it tomorrow when i have a little more time. I asked Greg's about the Japanese motors or rebuild ones but they made it sound like they were super hard to come by and not nearly as accessible as the 2.5's. Guess i'll have to do more digging before i pull the trigger on a HG repair.

I'm in Lynnwood, wa.. About a 1/2 hour or so north of seattle.

The car has 178,000 on it.
 
#9 ·
Greg's seems like they know a lot about all kinds of japanese cars but not much about EZ30D ones. It might be great to quiz the counter people thermostats for 4 cylinder 2008 Toyota Camrys, as they replace those everyday,...but a EZ30D car is rare even by subaru numbers. You might consider someplace else,...it might just be the counter people that do not know the lingo of this particular animal.

A imported Japanese Domestic Engine,..."JDM" is not worth thinking about
when there are a few good USDM ones local.

other people here have had very good luck just taking a running EZ30D out junk yard with 100,000 miles on it and dropping it in as is without a rebuild. They already came with multi-layer steel head gaskets from the factory.
@lockmedic just bought one with with a ruined basket case of a engine in it, and stopped on the way at a junk yard to get a used running engine....I guess he is going to marry the girl who went on this most romantic expedition. :love:
 
#5 ·
Not quite that hard to come by.

A quick check on Car-Part.com shows three H6s in Washington. Two considered grade 'A' and one 'B', all $1500 and under. Then there's the ones close by too. Don't know what freight would be to you but it's still less than the head gasket job.
 

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#6 ·
I'd go with a used motor before replacing HG's on a H6. It's a very tedious, complex, un-fun job.
 
#11 ·
Are they *blown* or just leaking a little bit externally on the bottoms of the heads?

Huge difference.
My guess would just be leaking a little.. This car is is just throwing me for a loop, one day it acts like a head gasket the next day no.. :(

The main sign of the HG going is it's blowing coolant over to the overflow and not drawing it back once the engine cools. But then again about every couple days it does draw it back.:| Also when Gregs tested for Hydrocarbons it came back with a reading of 263ppm, and tehy said anything over 100 was not a good sign.

Also the other thing is it HAS NOT overheated once.. Not saying i want it too, but just had to throw that in there. It seems liek everyone else that has the HG issue has overheating also.
 
#10 ·
Make sure it is a headgasket?

Used cars are often traded in when they have issues...so threads like this are common. Next time - your best bet is to buy from a private owner and not a dealer. Dealer lots are stocked with cars that are 100% traded in - and traded in cars often are traded in why.....because they have issues.

Private sellers usually are selling good vehicles or are easy to read...shifty verses stand up career working married father of 3 who just needs the car moved for better than trade in.

H6 are far more complex than H4 headgaskets, but $3,100 seems high. Washington tends to be a hot, high priced Subaru market. That may be the difference.

1. Make sure Subaru gaskets are used.

2. Definitely resurface the heads. The problem is the shops are hosing you - the resurface shouldn't cost that much. Those heads do not need measured or pressure checked - they never warp or crack, complete waste and pointless to test them. Most machine shops will say, "we can't warranty it unless we pressure test"....i always just tell them, no warranty is fine since Subaru heads dont' ahve issues anyway - no warranty is needed. It's like warrantying the wheels on your car - they're simply not going to have issues. i'll gladly sell anyone a "wheel warranty" on a Subaru....because they'll never need it.

A $1,500 engine + $500 to install would save you $1,000. Member on this forum has one for sale in NJ for $750......if he's willing to strap to a pallet...?
 
#13 ·
H6 with blown headgaskets act like that. They don't manifest in a typical way.

A couple that I've had would do just that. . . puke coolant to the point the radiator would be down a couple of quarts, maybe i'd see a spike on the temp gauge, maybe not.

Overnight cooling system pressure test confirmed it. Lost pressure, blew white smoke out the tailpipe, etc.

I'm guessing the H6 runs higher than typical cylinder pressures so the coolant does not normally tend to migrate into the combustion chamber during operation, but combustion gases do get into the coolant. . . so you never get white smoke (until they've failed catastrophically) but you will get coolant blown into the overflow.
 
#19 ·
listed compression ratios in my 2002 owners manual

10.0 to 1 for the EJ25
10.7 to 1 for the EZ30D

as per cars101:
did not change for 2005 with the EZ30R 10.7:1

but the 2005 XT is listed as 8.2:1 (no listing for when boosting there).
 
#15 ·
Mileage isn't a concern with these engines. Change two $10 pulley bearings for the AC/alternator/PS belt and the engine is drop in and go.

The head gaskets in the EZ30 don't fail any more often than any other manufacturer's gaskets. Just like any other manufacturer's engine, they can and do occasionally fail.
 
#17 ·
yes - that is common H6 headgasket issues - i've seen a few do exactly like you're describing. they can run a year or more like that before they start to overheart...they can very gradually get worse.

i've seen them with bubbling and not overheating. i've seen some that only overheat at 90+ ambient temps, with A/C on, at idle....any one of those not in place and zero overheating.
 
#18 ·
(not mine, but another I know of):

how about mysterious loss of coolant, without smells or leaks. for a sign of EZ30D head gaskets? 180,000 miles, Original water pump, new OEM thermostat
 
#22 ·
Seriously though, is there any way to mitigate the inevitable meltdown? I have a new radiator to install, and I haven't used the coolant conditioner in a while...I did a total flush not long ago, then refilled without it. I'm having difficulty digesting this and grasping at straws I guess. Is there anything I can do?
 
#32 ·
Ha ha, no offense, I don't care at all. I'd be happy to be wrong too! I'm not here to be right or wrong, i try and discuss in ways that help and are accurate.

I'm using H4's as a reference point since I've never actually done a compression test on an H6 - it's pointless on H4's and i'm extrapolating to H6's.

Pressure testing the cooling system sometimes works
Testing the coolant sometimes works
Maybe leak down test...i feel like someone I know likes to do those....but I could be mis-remembering
 
#34 ·
I certainly will! Even if a problem with the HG is positively indentified, or if if proves to be something else (which I now doubt) it will be posted for posterity.

I hope it turns out to be as sporadic as the OB you described earlier. I don't drive near as much as I used to, and I wouldn't mind checking/adding coolant every time I drive it as long as it gets me where I need to go!

I've yet to find the level of knowledge found here by members such as you anywhere around where I live. So any and all problems new, and solved, will be mentioned in this forum...there simply aren't many OB's around here for whatever reason. I guess that would be why nobody specializes in repairing Soobs, except one shop I have heard of, but not yet visited. I may now. I can't do all the repairs I used to anymore. Y'all (sic) will be the first to know!

OP-I apologize for hijacking your thread.
 
#37 ·
I've never heard of that being done. Subaru water pump failure is nearly unheard of. I'm sure you can google it - I'm sure there's a Ford water pump out there which fails all the time and needs confirmed.

They will on very rare ocassions leak/weep. But compromised flow due to the water pump is so rare i wouldn't believe it unless someone posted pictures or was a trusted source bent on quantifiable diagnosis. It's so rare there's probably another explanation....like it sat for an extended period in water or some corrosive substance.
 
#38 ·
do the bearings get tired after a specific number of miles that they should be swapped out?

I can't even easily find a flow meter for a automobile mechanic.
 
#39 ·
The difference is the bearings don't really "fail" in any of these...they do but it's a result of another failure - lubrication. Water pumps are constantly lubricated by the antifreeze.

Sealed bearings - like timing pulleys and H6 serpentine, or any serpentine bearing for that matter, and wheel bearings is they have sealed bearings and a limited one time supply of lubrication. Over time the grease is dissipated. Open up any older bearing and you'll see dried up, compromised, and low amounts of grease.

The bearings themselves don't fail...they loose grease...eventually overheat...then fail. Address the real failure/issue - the lack of grease, and they last the life of the vehicle.

Systems that have a constantly supply of lubrication - like timing chain gear, main and rod bearings, and water pumps - don't have that issue and the high quality bearings can last nearly forever if they're never compromised.

Even older Subarus where the timing belt pulleys are extremely expensive (kits are $400+), the pulley bearings last the life of the vehicle simply by regreasing the pulleys. Get a needle gun insert and refill them. I have no idea how many times I've done those style. I have a daily driver now like that.

You could do the same with EJ bearings - regrease them every time for a few cents in grease - and they'd last the life of the vehicle. But the pulleys are so cheap and compromising the face seal during regrease is problematic - that it doesn't make much sense. Though I've done it before.
 
#41 ·
boxter,

I wonder if all this is simply the degrading radiator you got, and that does not drain 100% when you tried to remove it. Slowing the coolant flow bringing on a Head Gasket meltdown
 
#45 ·
that is odd - all those hose and radiator failures in succession. that's strange.

220,000 mile H6 and 190,000 mile H6 have had no hoses or radiator failures. haven't seen it in any of my friends H6's yet either. i mean - 10+ years old so sure it's totally possible and different uses/environments, etc, so hose failure isn't surprising by itself.

but a bunch in a row and the radiator...that is odd.
 
#46 ·
Pressure in the system is controlled by the radiator cap. Are you sure it's OEM and good?
 
#47 ·
It's oem for sure. Good? Should be. Replaced with tstat, but also bought one when the hoses started failing.

I'm hoping (hoping?) that the radiator is full of crud, thus possibly causing the perceived backpressure problem. The one in the car is oe, but significantly heavier than the aftermarket one I got off ebay.

I've allowed it 12 hrs to drain before, plug removed, bottom hose off, transmission lines off, jackstand under driver's side. Would the oe be heavier because it came with the car and is built better than aftermarket? I have no experience with this on my OB, so nothing to compare to.

I'm a oem junkie to a fault almost. I'd hate to find out that the new rad is significantly inferior to one from Subaru. But I've read here and other places that there's no reason to spend the extra $ for one. Hoping things improve with the replacement.
 
#49 ·
Don't remember. It's in my ebay site somewhere. I put the new radiator in the car today and am still burping it. We'll see if coolant continues to disappear, but for the next couple of days I am going to regard any bubbles as being trapped. After that....

I drove it this afternoon for a short distance, and had to add about 3-4 oz of coolant after it sat for a couple of hours. It didn't pull any from the overflow to compensate like the old one would have. I'll know more in a few days.
 
#50 ·
#51 ·
So far, I've only been able to get about 1.25+ gal in it. The dimensions look exactly the same from the outside, and this morning it only took a tiny bit. I drove about 10-15 miles after I posted yesterday, and I'm going to see if I can burp any more air out of it today.

I don't think there should be any difference in capacity between my Bean and your VDC. But 5-6 qts seems very low....I'll look in my manual a little later and post again after another burp cycle. Temp gauge is solid, no white smoke, so I'm thankful for that.

And your pic is appropriate relating to the engine bay of the Gen 2 EZ30D. You have to be a contortionist to work on the thing. lol
 
#52 ·
New radiator in for about a month now. Since installation have replaced 2 more leaking hoses and now I have a leak that appears to be coming from the heater core. I can smell antifreeze sometimes on a cold (winter cold) start for a couple of minutes. This is by far the worst leak of all as far as volume goes.

I do not understand what the h3ll is going on. Temp gauge stays rock steady. I can empty the overflow from the "full" line in 10 minutes. Looking under the car I see a steady leak coming from behind the trans pan, but only when it's running or immediately after parking it. No leaks when the engine is cold. No oil in the coolant, no excessive oil loss at all. Runs great.

HG leak??? Would it cause all of this ridiculous coolant hose replacement? The coolant system never seems to be under pressure. In the short times between repairs the car will run with the rad cap off and a funnel in the filler neck until it runs out of gas. Maybe a marble-sized bubble every 15 min or so. If no pressure in the system, why are all of the hoses blowing up?

I've about had enough of this crap. Any ideas before I ditch the car? I really do like it, but I'm about at the end of the rope. Thanks in advance.
 
#53 ·
good news: is it plain air or exhaust gas? might just be a plain old coolant leak, and up on a lift it may have to go. there might not be much info on it here or anywhere, as not many 2001-2002 H6 cars were sold in the deep south / hot weather areas. (if it is a hot weather car thing,...aussies might know they like H6).
 
#54 ·
Yes, those Down Under are fond of the H6. Maybe I can configure a conventional carbon monoxide alarm to do the job. Mechs who understand horizontally opposed engines are a rare breed in these parts. Dreading removing the dashboard, but a small price to pay to otherwise install another powerplant.
 
#55 ·
It might not be under the dashboard, it might be right up over the trans in front of the fire wall and someone would have to really droop the trans to see it.

If you are not getting a puddle on the floor of the car, I would not think it is actually inside. ....I have never had a car with a coolant leak that was not as simple as a hose ripped wildly in half, or a leaky clamp on top of the engine.
 
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