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Belt Shredded And Now, Belt Idler Stuck (Will Not Turn)

11K views 36 replies 9 participants last post by  Oka 
#1 ·
The serpentine belt got shredded two days ago. Just got it in and pulled out all the belt strips that got tangled in that area. Now, the belt idler is stuck (will not turn). Why?

Why would the idler be stuck, not turn and how can I fix this. Other wheels are free. I put my finger behind/inside the idler, and did not feel any belt stip in there.

Thanks
:confused:
 
#2 ·
The bearings have seized, causing the shredded belt. You now need a new belt and tensioner "idler". It's not that expensive and is pretty easy to replace.
This is a common problem with all high millage cars.
 
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#4 ·
Thanks folks for the information. The idler will then be replaced, or just the bearing.
As long as it is not more issue than that, that job would be nothing. Just curious to know why the seizing.
Thanks again!
 
#5 ·
The idler pulley comes with the bearing installed. Unbolt old, bolt up new, reinstall belt.

It seized because it got too hot. Bearings have grease in them. When they're new, the grease is like maple syrup. As it ages and breaks down, the grease gets thicker and almost like a putty and just can't lubricate the ball bearings as well as it used to. Lack of lubrication leads to friction, friction leads to heat, heat leads to two pieces of metal becoming one and then it's not going to spin anymore :)

Or the friction breaks down the ball bearings until they don't roll smoothly anymore and jam the bearing...

 
#6 ·
Just found one in town for $25 from AutoZone. Other stores has it for $49.
Interestingly, I have know the pulleys to be the dark color steel material, but this one seems to be
stainless steel material. How durable is this material?
 

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#7 ·
Oh, the pulley itself doesn't handle much stress. It can be plastic or metal. The one in the picture actually looks like metalized plastic.

The point is, the bearing quality is of much more importance than the pulley material.

These things are made with the lube permanently sealed into the bearing. But permanent is not forever. It's meant to be easily replaceable. You ought to have 1 other idler in there, might as well replace it too so it doesn't cost you a belt when it goes.
 
#9 ·
I thought I was posting on on this thread, but I guess it was on another window I had opened, LOL!
Like I was saying, this thread got me thinking, so I took a look under the hood of my 15. Because there's no more power steering pump, the belt is allot shorter, and it only has one tensioner pulley. That'll be cool when it comes time to replace. Odd thing is, it's not spring loaded, but manual, huh...
Also, notice the bracket for the power steering pump in the upper left corner. I think that's so funny!
I know I've mentioned it in other posts, it just doesn't get old. Every time I see it I laugh...
 

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#14 ·
I turned the pulley at the Belt Tension Adjuster, and it does not sound that smooth so I decided to replace it also. However, every store in town has the pulley at the Belt Tension Adjuster as an assembly not separate with a pulley. On their computer parts screen, the tensioner shows as an assembly.

In my Outback, I was able to remove just the pulley at the Belt Tension Adjuster and it is the same as in the Idler. Both are the same but not at the parts dealer. So, I bought another pulley to replace at the tensioner.

So, what am I missing at the Belt Tension Adjuster composition. Does it have a removable pulley which is the same as at the Idler? My Subaru has both as the same pulley.
 
#15 ·
How in the world do I replace the serpentine belt. I thought this would be an easy job compared to new things I have done in my other cars. I have two repair PDF manuals, found seven instruction on replacing the belt and saw about nine videos on YouTube on doing the work. None looks like mine. I have a 2002 Subaru Outback, six cylinders, 3.0, L.L. Bean. I can't seem to find the adjuster to remove the tension or the alternator (to slacken).

I plug in the car's info on Google, find titles, but it shows something different from what my engine looks like, at the belt area.

Any info would help! Thanks.
 

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#18 ·
it is not a manual adjust - it is hydraulic - so you put tension on that tensioner pulley nut - once you give it enough pressure - that entire tensioner arm will start to move - it's spring loaded. move it enough to create slack to install the belt. let it go. done. lots of tensioners are like this, though Subaru never really used them before the H6.

yes - both idlers are the same. follow the directions here, we have the part numbers and all figured out - there's a sticky thread about them.

I'd check or replace them again at 60,000 miles - they routinely fail and mileage doesn't much matter. i've seen them fail under 100k and i'm sure they fail sooner than I've seen it. Maybe even sooner - I wonder what the quality of those bearings are in the autoparts store pulleys?

The bearings loose grease over time - all bearings of this type do this - timing pulleys, tensioner pulleys - pull them and they'll whhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrr and sound cool - but the bearings freely spin too much because there's no grease in them. withtout grease the bearings overheat and eventually expand, creating more heat, wear, damage, compromising the metal, and eventually compromising the bearing housing, balls, and things start failing.

if you regreased the pulleys - they would never fail. it's just not cost-time effective for most people to do it. but you can pop off the face seals, repack with grease, and reinsteall the face seals. if those seals have already seen heat/age though they are sometimes hard to remove/reinstall wtihout damage. and you can't buy new face seal - i wish you could, that would change a lot of things.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Just noticed these.

SHAFT & BEARING LENGTH:
The shaft (male) would not go all the way into the bearing, in both the old and the new pulleys.
For something that take much tension from the belt, I thought I should have gone all the way to flush the end of the
bearing. Or am I missing something in the re-installation of both pulley?

BOLT AT TENSIONER:
When I installed either the new or the old pulley at the tensioner, the bolt is short. There, the bolt is supposed to come out at the end of the tensioner assembly and secured with a bolt. The tip of the bold just flushed on the tensioner houseing. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.
 

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#23 ·
Just noticed these.

BOLT AT TENSIONER:
When I installed either the new or the old pulley at the tensioner, the bolt is short. There, the bolt is supposed to come out at the end of the tensioner assembly and secured with a bolt. The tip of the bold just flushed on the tensioner houseing. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.
Got an answer to this question from carpartsdiscount.com. The bolt is supposed to go into the space at the back so the bolt will reach the nut.

Now I need the answer to the other question about the shaft not long enough to take the whole length of the bearing.
 

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#24 ·
Got everything back together. Boy, this would be the easiest belt I have ever changed (now that I know).
The tensioner eliminates the issue of setting the deflection of the belt which take some trials and errors.

The new pulleys don't have lips at the edge, so the photos show what I have. I feel they should be
okay since the other ones have grooves and lips on both sides which will guide the belt on the ones that
does not have lips (the two new ones I installed). So, is the position of the belt on the idler pulley okay?

Still concerned about my previous question about the shaft not going all through the bearing. Both went
just half way in the bearing. My concern is that the bolts are not big enough to fill the inside of the bearing
and it is just holding the pulley in. The pulley is only half way supported. Is this okay?
 

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#25 ·
Pictures woudl help - how does the bolt only go "half way" through the bearing - if that's the case then the bolt wouldnt' reach the nut to secure it?

The pulley should have a large washer between the bolt head and the pulley.

*** Did you have this washer?

the load isn't really carried by the shaft of the bolt - the bolt squeezes the inner race of the bearing to support the loads through that inner race braced against the housing it's fixed too. so the inner race should carry that load, not the bolt.
 
#26 ·
Pictures woudl help - how does the bolt only go "half way" through the bearing - if that's the case then the bolt wouldnt' reach the nut to secure it?

The pulley should have a large washer between the bolt head and the pulley.

*** Did you have this washer?

the load isn't really carried by the shaft of the bolt - the bolt squeezes the inner race of the bearing to support the loads through that inner race braced against the housing it's fixed too. so the inner race should carry that load, not the bolt.
I have the attached photos in earler post. I mentioned it is the shaft that is half way in and NOT the bolt.

I also mentioned that every other item is in and set. The bolt, washer, nut, belt and the belt shield. The car is running fine. My only concern is the issue of the shaft and the bearing. I don't know if that is how it was when I removed the old ones.

Looking at the photos, I wonder how the pulleys would balance even with the bolts holding them tight in there. Wondering if anyone have had such and if it is normal.
Thanks.
 

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#29 ·
I got images on the belt path from manual and internet before starting work.
 
#28 ·
ah, i see what you're saying. i'm not sure, i can't recall where that ends up.

Do you have the old pulley - maybe you can look at it and see a definitive "line" from age/wear/rust" that shows the shaft ended around the same place?

if they both did the same thing and you did everything properly then it sounds normal. and again i would suggest that shaft is intended as an alignment tool more than a bearing wall. tightening compression of the inner race would take the majority of the loading.
 
#30 ·
ah, i see what you're saying. i'm not sure, i can't recall where that ends up.

Do you have the old pulley - maybe you can look at it and see a definitive "line" from age/wear/rust" that shows the shaft ended around the same place?

if they both did the same thing and you did everything properly then it sounds normal. and again i would suggest that shaft is intended as an alignment tool more than a bearing wall. tightening compression of the inner race would take the majority of the loading.
Very good thought to check the original to see any sign of previous limits.
The Idler Bearing has a little mark, kinda faint around the middle while the bearing at the Tensioner shows a distint burn looking color right at the middle. Both won't be dirty since the bolt and washer sealed them off good.
Looking at the bearing at the Tensioner, I could conclude that the new installation is then correct. (I hope!).

Wish someone could remove their bolt just so see if this engineering is same. If same, then it would be one of the many auto engineering some car lovers have wondered why so. Does not make sence to end at the middle of shaft. Would have been better all the way for better stability. There has to be a reason!:confused:

It's wifey's car. Don't want her to drive it yet until I am sure the pulleys are sitting well. Looking from the top of the engine, all the wheels align pretty good.

Just sketched out the attached image as what I have.
 

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#31 ·
Oh ok, now I get what you're saying about that boss not being long enough.

Nothing to worry about. As long as the washer under the bolt can cover the face of the inner race of the bearing, all is well.

There are all kinds of reasons why that boss may have been made shorter. I don't know which of them might be true:

Open design- the boss is big enough to mount this style of pulley, and small enough that some other type could be fitted. It's hard to change a casting, it's easy to interpose an adapter bracket as long as you leave room for one.

Casting size- the boss may have already been at one of the limits for the mold it was cast in.

Damage mitigation- a short boss won't break off easily. When a cast part shears or breaks there's **** to pay in replacing it.

BTW I don't think your old pulleys started out with edge lips. I think that's how worn they are.
 
#33 ·
It's possible that the pulley is installed backwards. As mentioned above take care to notice how the old pulleys were set up.

The nut on the back is notorious for falling out and disappearing as you remove the bolt and pulley together. Most of this is trial and error, and like you said, the 2nd time around will be a breeze.
 
#36 ·
It's possible that the pulley is installed backwards. As mentioned above take care to notice how the old pulleys were set up.

The nut on the back is notorious for falling out and disappearing as you remove the bolt and pulley together. Most of this is trial and error, and like you said, the 2nd time around will be a breeze.
Nope, the old pulleys and the washers can ONLY go one way.
With the new pulleys, they can go either face in or out but the washers
can ONLY go one direction. Also, I sure remember how the old pulleys were
before I started work.

Oh yes, I could not find the nut. I looked for it all over the place and finally found it in a small opening on the engine and got it out with my magnet telescopic retiever.

I bet, if I were to do this job again, with both the pulleys and the belt replaced, I could do it in about fifteen/twenty minutes with all the tools around and ready. No doubt, we learn a great deal by such situations.
 
#37 ·
Truely and surely, I will say THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL YOUR HELP HERE.
I sure appreciate your time and thoughts on these matters.

Thanks again!
:grin2:
 
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