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EJ22 swap into EJ25D DOHC vehicle

49K views 40 replies 16 participants last post by  eagleeye  
#1 ·
*** To keep clutter to a minimum, if you have a question - it probably could be asked in a separate thread and link/quote this. Personal preference, but try not to reply to and quote the entire thread...nooo....goodness noooo don't do that!

Read and reread the section you have a question about - it's probably answered. If it's not answered - then it's something that doesn't matter like electronics, DOHC 2.5 verses SOHC 2.2, ECU, transmission, none of that matters. Don't make up questions on your keyboard, get in the garage and follow this:

This is for EJ22 swaps into an EJ25D vehicles. EJ25 = dual overhead cam engine found in:
1996-1999 Legacy and Outbacks
1998 Impreza RS and Forester


The following are plug and play, easy swaps into those vehicles listed above:

1. 1995 EJ22 with EGR
(all 95 automatics have EGR - impreza or legacy, doesn't matter)

or

2. 96-98 EJ22 with EGR and the EJ22 exhaust manifold.
(again legacy/impreza doesn't matter)

Exhaust:
Usually get the exhaust manifold with the engine, but in general, any 96-01 single port EJ22 exhaust manifold will work.

1996 is single port exhaust (95 EJ22 and EJ25's are dual port), so that's why it is needed. Exhaust manifold bolts right in place and you have to unbolt it from the engine anyway to remove the engine, so it's no extra work really.

EGR:
Have to look to determine EGR for certain. Automatics usually have EGR - but not always in 1996-1998 so it's wise to check.


If you don't care about a check engine light (in states with no emissions and check engine light isn't included in inspection) - then you have other options as well:


Basically - any 1995 EJ22 or any 1996-1998 EJ22 with exhaust manifold will work, again legacy/impreza doesn't matter. More specifically:

3. 1995 EJ22 without EGR (manual transmissions don't have EGR in 1995

4. 1996-1998 without EGR and again get a single port EJ22 exhaust manifold.

______________________


General notes:
swap the EJ25 flexplate onto the EJ22 engine.

some evap stuff is different in later years...easy to work around, search and someone put a link here if they find a good thread. just swapping/managing vacuum hoses, not a big deal.

automatic/manual does not matter. in 1995 automatics have EGR and manuals do not - so "auto/manual" is simply an indicator of EGR in 1995. but automatic/manual by itself is meaningless and doesn't matter.

Car runs perfectly fine, plug and play without EGR, but you'll get a check engine light which some states don't allow. In states where it doesn't matter - ignore the CEL and run it forever without issue.
 
#2 ·
EJ18's can also be swapped into an EJ25 easily:

1. remove the EJ18 intake manifold
2. install a knock sensor (the hole is already there and tapped, just unused)
3. install an EJ22 intake manifold - it bolts right up, identical bolt pattern/gaskets

At this point the engine is just like the EJ22's listed above electronically - plug and play.

Use any EJ18 1990-1996 - they are all dual port exhaust, same as EJ25D's.
I think they all also have EGR so you'll either:

A. want an EJ22 intake manifold with EGR

or

B. use an EJ22 intake mainfold without EGR and just block off the EGR hole in the head. Make a plate to cover it up or cut the EGR tube, crimp it, and weld it shut, or weld a small metal bead/ball into the EGR tube. This will give a check engine light though when installed in EGR engines, like EJ25D's.

I have never attempted swapping an EJ25 intake manifold wiring harness onto an EJ18 intake manifold, unsure if that's possible or no.

Again - use the EJ25 flexplate

eagleeye Edit: I took the EJ18 listing off the thread title, 110hp, and 110-120 torque,
originally for a light antique impreza stuck into a EJ25D powered car,...defines pokey. at least the happy EJ22 came in the legacy.


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#6 ·
Stickied!!
 
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#9 ·
This is awesome! I may be doing this in the very near future...
 
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#11 ·
Hahahahahaahaaaaaa yeahhhhh. Not worth it now, should have done this months ago instead of head gasket repair.
 
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#13 · (Edited)
How many EJ22's are left? Seems like everyone from Vanagon and other VW to replicar and old Suby owners are seeking that engine, and it brings me to wonder about their continuing availability.

Is there still a JDM supply? Or has it come to haunting junkyards in hopes of finding this solution-providing engine model?

After all, they weren't THAT reliable. I had one that 1)lost cam a seal under warranty, then 2) lost that cam seal again under repair warranty (at which point Subaru informed me that they were disallowing my future engine warranty claims because my oil receipts were deemed inadequate, but I think it was really because I continued my commute to their repair reception area and left what remained of the oil pouring out onto their apron), then not long after, 3)developed an on again/off again horrendously loud piston racket after startup that I suspect resulted from Subaru letting the car sit for three weeks unrepaired when I brought their failed cam seal repair back to them, that noise continued very embarrassingly until in it's grand finale' 4) it blew a hole in #3 piston big enough to drive through at 113k miles.

I'd rather have had a potential head gasket issue, I think.

Anyway, after the engine blew I found an indy repair guy who had set up shop after nine years working for our local Suby dealer who sourced a JDM long block, did the change in under a week, and charged me exactly $406.74 (I've never forgotten this one time in which I felt like an auto repair business hadn't at least tried to screw me and I hope the fellow thrived).

That JDM engine went 175k miles without issue until I sold the car running fine with 285k miles. I felt I was pushing my luck, but have often wished I'd kept the car. It was the last of the maual low range transfercase and I've never felt that the '98 5sp AWD OB version measured up to the older GL's.
 
#14 ·
They're easily found here, PNW has exorbitantly high prices and demand.

That's a terrible EJ22 and dealership experience but it is anecdotal. I'm surprised you went back to Subaru after that, the service is worse than the engine. If every engine with one bad experience is deemed "unreliable" - then every engine ever made is unreliable. I get it - it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and I avoid stuff for the same reason (like the EJ25) and yes please avoid the EJ22 forever because you'd hate it more to have another issue! (which I've seen the EJ25 have innumberable times). But one experience is a far cry from a robust statistically quantifiable representation of engine reliability played out over a quarter century now.
 
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#15 ·
Sure, it was a dealership issue yet the EJ22 were notorious for dropping oil in a somewhat dramatic style, mostly through the cam seals. Better seals, better technique would and often did resolve that one.

You loft such arguments in favor of EJ22 yet drive the six cylinder instead. Does that not make your anectdotal condemnations of the newer four cylinder also hearsay? This goes to my question directly.

My question is to this net driven adolation of the older engine. It has raised the prices for those engines and I wonder who really is benefitting in light of the fact that the EJ25 engine problems, so often cited, were in fact only on an order of some 10% of overall usage and which have effectively been addressed both in the aftermarket and by Subaru through better sealing/better technique to a point that few owners of newer or update engines experience the cited problems today. It's usually more economical to fix what you have than to enter a mad seeking for a holy grail, a grail generated in whole by a few forum reported direct experiences then blown out of proportion by second hand internet gossip.

Is all.
 
#16 ·
For those of us who have had our hands greasy with both engines on more than one occasion, the desirability of the EJ18/22 is not blown out of proportion.

Given there was no 6 cyl option for the 1st gen, I'm not really seeing the conflict surrounding the fact that Gary drives an EZ30D 2nd gen and has a preference for the EJ22 over the EJ25 for 1st gens.

The EJ25D is more costly and difficult to work on than the EJ22 or EJ18. That's purely objective. . . I can pull up part costs and labor times if you need further proof. Consider valve adjustment if nothing else. . . the bucket & shim arrangement on the 25D is far more costly if you need to grind the valves & set clearances than the simple screw adjusters on the 18/22 and the phase 2 EJ251/2/3 SOHC engines. You've got twice as many cam seals (which seem to be of major concern to you), spark plugs that are more difficult to change, and a timing belt setup with 4 composite pulleys instead of 2 metal ones.

So yeah, the EJ22 is preferred whether you're building an experimental aircraft, converting a Westy, or just wanna keep your 95-99 Outback running a while longer.
 
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#19 ·
Actually no it doesn't work like you describe but it's easily done.

Bolt a 1995+ intake manifold onto your 1991 EJ22 and follow all the directions in this thread. 94 and earlier all have dual port heads that bolt right up to the EJ25 exhaust, like 1995 EJ22's.

SLAM DUNK
 
#20 ·
May I ask. I have a 1997 ej25d obw and just got a 1995 legacy with a 2.2.

Both are 5 speed.

What work would it entail for me to keep the EGR so I can pass emissions? Thanks.


I should note that the 2.5 is running fine. I just rather use it as a project/rally motor in a hatchback shell and would rather the reliable 2.2 in my wagon.
 
#21 ·
You need an EGR equipped intake manifold if you're worried about emissions. Options:
1. buy an EJ22 intake manifold with EGR
2. Or swap the EJ25 wiring harness onto the EJ22 intake manifold - to convert your intake manifold from non-EGR to EGR.

Then once you do either of those, you still don't have EGR in the engine/head, so you have to reroute some vacuum tubes to "trick it". Like this:
Using a NON-EGR engine in Subaru with EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve) - Engine - Ultimate Subaru Message Board

3. Sometimes you can drill and tap for EGR into a non-EGR engine but drilling through a cylinder head isn't something most people are up for.

4. swap the EJ25 heads onto the EJ22 and swap the entire intake manifold too - that would suck for multiple reasons but would "work".
 
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#22 ·
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#23 ·
are swaps into a 1999 easy with a 2000-2002 EJ251 without EGR?
It's not an EGR issue - it's Phase I or Phase II differences.

Quoting this as an illustration...not to poke fun or be a smart hole...but following the original write up will answer all questions about fitment and what's easy:
Read and reread the section you have a question about - it's probably answered.
1999 engines are listed in the write up. 1999 Legacy/Outback are Phase I and 99 Forester and Impreza RS are Phase II - that's why 1999 legacy/outback are listed and Forester and Impreza are not for swap compatibility. It's only 1999 where Phase I and Phase II engines are available the same year - so it's only 1999 when the distinction matters. Again - just follow this simple outline for easy swaps compatability:

1996-1999 Legacy and Outbacks
1998 Impreza RS and Forester
So to answer the question - Look through the write up by model and year - or more specifically which Phase engines.

how about EG33?
6 cylinder and 4 cylinder have different cylinder numbers and are quite different electronically, definitely not plug and play.

Although I have run a 6 cylinder off of a 4 cylinder ECU before if we are very liberal in our use of the word "run".
 
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#24 ·
Thank you Gary!

I have a 1998 Subaru Legacy Outback that Gary helped step me through getting a swappable engine and had a mechanic swap it.

1) The swap was successful. No check engine light. Car drove. A loss of power getting onto highways on the on ramps (not problematic or dangerous, just more my mom's style of driving them I'm used to) or if I really wanted to do a very pushing-it pass on the highway, but otherwise not noticeable.

2) It's been two years. (For personal reasons, I'm still driving this car.) It did need the engine dropped the year later because internal parts failed (I have to look up what ones - oil loss was the symptom again.) It wasn't due to the swap. It was due to using a used engine, which is always a risk.

3) During that drop they found an old timing belt. It'd been supposedly replaced the first time. Wishing I'd asked for used parts the first time to verify.

4) It recently developed a mildly screechy start. Turned very loud while on a lift to get new tires (why I don't know??). Turned out to be fly wheel between engine and transmission. Mechanic says bolts wiggled loose. He's also seen missing guides cause this (but wasn't in this case.) So worth asking replacer to bolt it in well with the guides.

Those are my lessons learned so far.

I'm having a host of problems now, that I've posted separately. I don't expect they have anything to do with the swap since it's driven fine since the swap until now. I'll post here if they turn out to be related.

Gary, I'd come back a while ago and thanked everyone. You hadn't spotted my post at the time. So I'm glad I found this, so I can say THANK YOU again!
 
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#25 ·
Okay so my friend is in the end stages of a swap for me and we have run into some problems that I could really use some help with. I was told this is plug and play etc, but so far the power steering lines did not match up and supposedly the PCM had to be swapped out because it was coding the cam signal for a DOHC and the new heads are sohc. Now we still have a no start condition and my friend says the crank sensor is signaling 200 rpms when the car isn't running. He is replacing the cam and crank sensors and hopes it will start. Unfortunately they were already new, so I am wondering if anyone may have some suggestions?
Engine is a 96 SOHC single port ej22e non EGR from outback new chassis is 98 LGT that had a DOHC ej25d with EGR. I can sort out the EGR problem later with an ej22e EGR intake manifold I have. But this no start is dragging this project out and I am concerned the my friend is going to start asking me for more money to fix this even though I have already paid him extra money twice now.
Please help!
We also swapped the transmission over, which necessitated using the old trans cross member to keep the driveshaft from binding up and swapping the clutch mechanism over to the old style. Both of those issues were found after the fact dragging things out. We are both pretty frustrated, and I am now terrified to take this thing back apart for a hybrid build without a full parts car.(at least I'll have a spare trans this way)
 
#28 ·
Start another thread rather than reply here so this doens't get side tracked - you have a mechanical problem, not a swap problem.

and supposedly the PCM had to be swapped out because it was coding the cam signal for a DOHC and the new heads are sohc. Now we still have a no start condition and my friend says the crank sensor is signaling 200 rpms when the car isn't running. He is replacing the cam and crank sensors and hopes it will start.
He is wrong - there is no need to swap the PCM (ECU/ECM). DOHC and SOHC doesn't matter here. your friend is wrong on that, either he is misdiagnosing the issue (my guess) or the ECU was failed (unlikely but different than an incorrect ECU - if it failed then maybe the new one failed too because of a short or something?)

He is replacing the cam and crank sensors and hopes it will start.
that's unlikely the issue - you changed them once already, changing them again is unlikely to solve anything.

I'm not going to further diagnose here in this thread because this is swap thread - you have mechanical issues, not swap issues. please start another thread to keep this one usable and helpful.
 
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#26 ·
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#30 ·
This is great. However I have a slightly different variation I haven't seen answered. I have an 1998 Subaru Legacy Outback AT with a bad 2.5L H4 DOHC. Local JDM importer has a great deal on EJ20 2.0L SOHC's ($795) but I cannot figure out if that will be a easy swap for my 2.5L DOHC? The EJ20 DOHC's are $1,145 and I'd rather save the money if I can make it work.

It seems like it would be similar to the EJ22's that I cannot seem to find anywhere near Seattle.
 
#32 ·
It looks like I may have a head gasket that has started leaking.

Let's say I get a '95 EJ22 from a junkyard, no real history on it; what would you recommend doing to it before dropping it into my engine bay? I'd assume timing belt kit/ water pump and new plugs but anything else that would be easier with the engine still out of the car?
 
#33 ·
valve cover gaskets and the various small gaskets and oil seals around the engine from a kit.,....OEM thermostat, PCV,

maybe get a inspection camera and put it down the plug holes to look for too much carbon / damage before buying.


Classically you should be looking for one with already low miles, ...like in a rear end wreck or a rust bucket. one that is still in the car even if it means buying the whole car to scrap it. (just so you can hear and watch it run for half a hour).

I would consider putting it in you outback,...getting it up and running and then looking for head gasket leaks in the EJ22 = just based on age/ miles. and be ready to pull it out again /polish the heads and swap on some new HGs......but if you got time and energy, maybe just do the head gasket job right off the bat,...and be ready for 300,000 miles on the happy EJ22.
 
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#34 · (Edited)
Thanks so much !!

From reading the opening post, I assume my 1997 2.5D AT has EGR. If not, how crazy would buying a 2.2 with EGR be?

A junkyard listing on car-part dotcom (thanks again for that, folks) offers me a "1998 2.2 (AT) (EGR) (VIN sixth digit is 4)"

Sounds good for my 1997 2.5D with AT.......what luck the junkyard happens to be right here in town.....and how lucky their 2.2 has only 99K miles (so they say, for $700).....must go check it out.

PS:
This was useful:
How to read Subaru VIN numbers.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/vin.html
 
#37 ·
From reading the opening post, I assume my 1997 2.5D AT has EGR. If not, how crazy would buying a 2.2 with EGR]
Compatability - read thread again. If you're question isn't answered it's a nonissue or doesn't exist as stated on first post. Trying to prevent cluttering with endless questions about infinite parts that could differ.

It has EGR. you can go look - it takes less time to look than post to the Internet. If it didn't it doesn't matter you just block off the EGR of the donor engine.
 
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