96 OB:to buy or not? also:central PA sub shop?

[farmerjane]

I love this site! I'm thinking of buying an old subaru & this website is assisting me greatly in my research. I'd appreciate some feedback on my situation:

I'm looking at a 96 OB 2.2L manual trans--it will be the first car that's not a hand-me-down from papa & I'm nervous to make the plunge. I have pretty minimal car skills. Any advice would be appreciated--*especially* if anyone out there knows a good subaru mechanic in the state college/williamsport/selinsgrove area of central PA.

The car's got 155K, current owner has had it since 2007 & 108K with no significant (i.e. engine) problems. She bought it with an R-title (salvage title) but has not felt any weird shaking or pulling that might be related to hidden damage. She was up front about the fact that her mechanic said the clutch was going. He quoted her an estimate of $300 to replace it. When I drove it (my first time driving a subaru stick) it did feel sluggish and a bit soft getting going in 1st and also the engine would rev up when we were going up a long hill.

She's getting rid of it because their farm got a truck & they don't need it anymore. We have some friends in common, so i don't feel like she's going to try & pull one over on me. BUT i don't know her well enough to know how well she took care of maintenance on this car. Should I be worried about the head gasket? Is there a way I can check it? Are there basic things I should ask to have looked at/tuned up at a shop if I end up buying this old girl? (asking price is $1800--any feedback on that??)

Thanks SO MUCH for your replies--I'm pretty excited to find a car, take good care of it, & join the clan at this other website i'm sure you all know about:
Subarus over 200,000 miles

happy driving,
fj

[lockmedic]

That's arguably one of the most reliable engine/trans combos Subaru has produced to date. 2.2's do not have the headgasket problems of the 2.5's, nor are they interference engines so if you break a timing belt, you throw a new one on it and get on your way. About the worst thing you can do to one is overheat it, and that's pretty much death to any engine regardless of brand.

$300 sounds *VERY* cheap for a clutch job on a Subaru. When I did my 2001 2.5 OB 5 speed clutch the parts alone were right around $200 not including machine shop services (resurfacing the flywheel), and R&R'ing an AWD trans is every bit of 4 hours work. I'd think $500 minimum. . .shop across the way from me charges $450 to R&R an AWD auto trans. If he's willing to do it for that I'd say he might be underestimating the parts costs or is just planning on replacing the disc.

Price seems a bit on the high side but that's without knowing the overall condition of the car. Salvage titles generally devaule a car about 20% off book even if properly fixed. It could still very easily bring that if the rest of the car is nice and/or it's optioned well. . . doubtful if it's a MT.

Things to look at that would be things like steering rack boots, axle boots, and ball joints. None of those are incredibly difficult and/or expensive to replace, but it's all money that adds up. Steering rack boots are $50 per side for parts alone, probably closer to $100-125 per side by the time you add labor and most of the time you need a front end alignment after those are done unless they get the tie rods back in exactly the same place. Ball joints are about the same, and again are pretty easy to fix but again, it adds up. Ditto for axles/boots. Rear axles boots don't tend to break.

Only other thing is cam seals tend to leak as does the oil separator plate. Cam seals are easy to replace while doing a timing belt, oil separator plate is an engine (or trans) out job. . . which should probably be looked at while you're doing the clutch.

If it needs any or all of the above, I'd probably put it closer to a $1000 car, maybe less. None of the above will strand you but if not attended to can lead to expensive repairs down the road. Steering rack boots, for example, if left broken will eventually cause the steering rack to leak and require replacement of the rack.

[porcupine73]

That in general is a pretty solid vehicle, but, as with any used car, especially one 15+ years old, you really have to check them over carefully to identify any issues before purchase.

Asking price is probably a bit high considering it needs a clutch, and if the shifting feels sloppy, probably would benefit from the shifter bushings being replaced.

[grossgary]

clutch job - more like $500 - $1,000 to properly replace the clutch. all clips, bearings, and the rear separator plate should be replaced.

timing belt job is needed in my opinion - the pulleys and tensioner are all probably original and should be replaced. the timing belt isn't even the concern at this point, but all the 15+ year old pulleys are not the most reliable at this age. at least not reliable enough for me. make your own call. ebay has timing belt kits for this car for $100 or so with all new pulleys and timing belt. get one, i use them all the time.

$1,800 is a lot for a car needing a clutch. if it's otherwise in good shape, no rust (most cars of this vintage around here have tons of rust), then the car could be a great deal and vehicle still. in other words a semi-known vehicle might be worth the additional price and legwork over a similarly priced but unknown vehicle....just depends. and the 96 is nice having the EJ22 - that's a fantastic motor (if never run low on oil or run hot it'll last as long as you care to maintain it).

mid to late 90's subaru's needing any work requiring the engine or trans to come out are usually worth $500 (older, rust, less desirable models) to $1,500 (really nice condition, no rust, low miles, fully optioned). i just bought two 99's for $1,000 and $900 - one being mint and only 90,000 miles. motors need to come out - not much different parts costs as your clutch job.

the EJ22 engine does not have headgasket issues. *any* engine (regardless of make, manufacturer or engine) that's been overheated can have all sorts of issues - headgaskets being one of them - so simply do a check that you should do for any vehicle that's 15+ years old - look for signs of overheating or previous major engine work. there's no reason to single out the headgaskets on an EJ22 independently.

[outinthewoods]

You've already heard above from many of the clueful and experienced who have been helping me since I got into these things a couple of months ago, and I don't have much to add beyond my most recent experience: That a couple of weeks ago we picked up a car very much like yours - a '95 Legacy Brighton w/ 2.2+5speed - for $500. Clutch seems to be in good shape. Seller noted the need for a CV axle (which I replaced over the weekend with one I got from the wrecker for $30) and an exhaust pipe (pipe+muffler - another $30 from the junkyard, and whatever it's going to cost to have someone weld it on - not much).

So my $0.25 worth is that they're probably asking twice what it's worth. On the other hand, there seems to be no shortage of people here who aren't hesitating to spend a couple of thousand on engine work on a car of almost the same vintage. I'm a little baffled when it comes to valuation.

[xvimbi]

Originally Posted by outinthewoods

So my $0.25 worth is that they're probably asking twice what it's worth. On the other hand, there seems to be no shortage of people here who aren't hesitating to spend a couple of thousand on engine work on a car of almost the same vintage. I'm a little baffled when it comes to valuation.

The question is: how much money will it take to have a vehicle that is good to go for, say, 10 years? Can you buy a used vehicle that is in great condition and good for 10 years for $4,000? That's probably quite difficult.

So, if you can find a car that is worth $1,000, with all its problems, invest $3,000 to put top-notch components in and get it in perfect working order, you'd have a $4,000 dream vehicle. Repairing is almost always less expensive than buying a new car. It's irrelevant that the repair costs might (vastly) exceed the value of the car as it is now.

[canubaru]

and you need to qualify the 10 years. is that 10 years at 10,000 miles a year or is that 10 years at 20,000 miles a year.

there was a fellow on here not to long ago who got an outback basically free. he put $3k into it and then something major happened, head gaskets or rod knock or something. his dilemma was spend another $3k having the engine rebuilt , bearing, rings, valves, gaskets, timing stuff, etc.... or get rid of it and buy another car. i think he spent the money. what kind of a car would he get for $3k and what repairs would it need.

but here's the thing about his case, he drives 40k to 50k miles a year. so he will have a car with $6k in it and will drive 100kmiles in 2 or 3 years.

if he drives it 60k miles on $6,000 in repairs, that is $0.10 per mile. that's like buying a new car for $25k and driving it 250k miles. that is reasonable in a subaru if you take care of it. if he drives 100k on the $6,000 of repairs, that's $0.06 per mile. that's like driving 415k miles in a $25k new car.

'wow' factor aside or ''my girl friend really likes leather'', when you buy a car, you are buying miles. some folks need a truck for those miles and some folks need luxury for those miles, (or a luxury truck) but they are still buying miles.

[farmerjane]

thanks everyone for your responses! i appreciate the experienced feedback and feel a lot more grounded in my decision (though still undecided). i'm new at this and don't have a ton of money to spend--when money is tight it pays to have some knowledge. even if i don't end up buying this particular OB, i feel pretty excited about getting a subaru now.

it seems like in the case of this particular car, which spent the majority of its miles NOT under the care of the current owner, that first 107K will make a big difference in its future performance. was it well maintained? did the person who work on it know what they were doing?

Also, given what you all have written, it seems like if there has NOT been any major work done on this car, I'll be buying a car that has a pretty high likelihood of needing something extensive/expensive done to it in the next year or two. I don't need to be able to ID an axle boot or an oil separator plate to deduce that... i feel more equipped with information to negotiate a lower price.

i should have labeled this thread "buying used subarus for dummies," and I bet a lot more people would be adding their 2cents (and also reading it for advice!).

[farmerjane]

btw, in reference to part two of my question--whether anyone knows a good subaru shop in central PA--I just talked to Linda at Williamsport Auto Sales and she was pretty great.

They specialize in subarus and she actually took the time to just chat with me on the phone about all the same stuff you guys have been mentioning. She also told me exactly where to check for rust--under the back end and up inside the wheel wells. She also mentioned the timing belt & sealing up of leaks & said a good time to do that work is in combo with working on the clutch.

So, I'll let you know more if/when i actually get work done there.
Their website is nothing fancy: http://www.williamsportauto.com/

fj

[porcupine73]

Hm...well speaking of rust, there are several non-body areas that rust out on these...fuel filler neck and vapor pipe, rear brake lines, exhaust donut gasket, tailgate latch