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Old 04-07-2014, 11:55 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by arthuruscg View Post
I think the Gen4 sales figures are so good because Subaru finally got the MPGs up where they belong and have a large enough back seat for family use.

I am in the camp that perfers the ROW Legacy wagon styling then the current USA OB styling. I might have to import the ROW Legacy/Outback roof rack if I get a the 2015.
Ever since crocodile Dundee show up in north America with the outback, the outback has outsell legacy wagon by a wide margin(gen1-3)....very little people wants the legacy wagon, that is why they were not available in gen4..
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:08 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Well, I assume that Subaru acted on the basis of some decent info when they discontinued the wagon. However, things have changed and while I want an OUTBACK and not a wagon, there may be just enough prospective buyers for, say, an XT wagon.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:17 AM   #73 (permalink)
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I am on the sided that if the Gen3 body style was brought back, I would be all over it. If I want an SUV, then I will get an SUV. The Outback is a raised Legacy wagon. SOA should take the world Legacy wagon, raise it, slap bigger tires under it and call it done. The current fake SUV aka crossover fad needs to die now. Crossovers are just raised cars or dysfunctional minivans.

Jeep has already killed the Cherokee, what is next?
Do not pass personal views as general consensus

The CUV is not a fad but a highly functional type of vehicle. You will have a much better case arguing that the SUV was a useless fad: unsafe, gas-guzzling behemoth used primarily around town.

As for the OB being a fad...seriously? Obviously you have no clue as to where it can go and think it is some sort of a CRV
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:35 AM   #74 (permalink)
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I'd much rather have my blue oval with 6 stars than a 4 letter F word.
Love its what makes a subaru a subaru. (but just another 4 letter word, according to Bob Dylan)

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Old 04-08-2014, 09:19 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Do not pass personal views as general consensus

The CUV is not a fad but a highly functional type of vehicle. You will have a much better case arguing that the SUV was a useless fad: unsafe, gas-guzzling behemoth used primarily around town.

As for the OB being a fad...seriously? Obviously you have no clue as to where it can go and think it is some sort of a CRV
Well, I guess my family is weird. My family uses SUVs and vans as work/ towing/ family hauling vehicles. Then we used wagons for commuting.

SUVs to us are Cherokees, which wind up lifted with mud tires. And we have a fullsized Ford Van for towing the travel trailer. This is all stuff that the CUVs can not do.

Name one thing that a CUV does better then a minivan. If you say MPG then the EU minivans need to be included since they are closer to the same size as most CUVs. The US minivans are almost up to the same size at full sized vans.

For that matter a wagon does 99% of what most CUV owners use them for. Example, the EU Fusion Wagon vs the Escape. The fusion gets better mpg (22/33mpg vs 22/30), more rear leg room, wider and longer cargo area, the Escape cargo area is taller, both are rated to tow the same, when Ford installs the tow packages (not available on the US Fusion but available ROW), the Fusion has a much lower COG, lower drag and better handling. I have yet to find one thing that the Escape does better then the Fusion wagon. Except that the Escape looks cutie, kind of like the Rav4 and the Beetle with the flow vase.

Now, the Highlander does tow more then the Sienna, but I suspect it is the tires that are dictating the tow/carrying capacity. (Toyota had to reduce the cargo capacity bc of the tire ratings.)

The OB is a very capable car. The AWD system is what makes it so capable. The tire size is what allows for the raised tow rating when compared to the Legacy.

Anyway, back the Gen5 discussion. I hope is it not covered in black or 2 toned plastic.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:07 AM   #76 (permalink)
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You're peeing into the wind. Just look at the sales figures.

…RealBuyers™ have voted with their wallets,

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Old 04-08-2014, 10:29 AM   #77 (permalink)
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When my 2004 Gen2 developed that drive-by-wire problem that couldn't get fixed (the last year of Gen2 was the first for drive-by-wire, and there must have been some problems), I seriously looked at the 2011 Gen4's, since I had been driving a subaru since 1987 (GL, then legacy wagon - 1995 when "outback" was just pinstripes and bigger tires, then a gen2).

I didn't buy one for two reasons:
  1. The reasons arthuruscg brings up. I want a AWD wagon that has high clearance because we get a lot of snow and I often (2-3x a month) drive on rutted dirt roads. But I don't need a "utility vehicle". I want a car, preferrably a wagon, since still most of the mileage is just on the road. Cars are more fun to drive. I don't want some high riding "utility vehicle". When I need to haul a lot of stuff, I use the minivan.
  2. The roof rack. This has been debated to death also.

So this buyer spoke too. But I guess I was in the minority since gen4 sales took off.

Was thinking of getting an XV, but so far the gen5 looks more like a car again, so I may go for the extra space.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:48 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Looks like they've got Gen IV space with Gen III looks.

This will be a homerun and might just get me off my seat and too a dealership.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:02 PM   #79 (permalink)
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arthur,

#1: You are putting way more emphasis on towing capacity than the average consumer. Agreed, CUV's suck at towing when compared to trucks or truck-based SUV's. Most of the CUV target audience (which is the much larger group) doesn't need to tow. Maybe a bike rack or something, but that's about it.

#2: Most Americans cannot, or do not want to, buy a separate specialized vehicle for each task.

You said you use SUV's for work and towing. Minivans for hauling people. Wagons for commuting. Well, good for you. All of those are better at those tasks than a CUV (though you should probably have a compact sedan for the commute). But let me ask you something. Take away the towing requirement. Now, you can have only 1 car, that has to do ALL of the rest of your tasks. That's the average American family requirement. And that's where CUV's come into their own.

They are inherently a compromise. The best at nothing, but decent at everything (except towing). Sounds an awful lot like Subaru, because, well, you could argue that Subaru's were pioneers in creating CUV's. The OB was among the original CUV's in purpose, if not styling.

Compared to minivans, CUV's offer far better handling and slightly better fuel economy. Bring in EU minivans, and like you said, you're down to the same size. You've created a CUV. You now have a choice between a 3rd row or some storage space.

Compared to cars they offer more storage space at the slight expense of fuel economy. Compared to trucks they offer far better handling and a LOT better fuel economy.

And it's a mistake to lump the modern OB (or Forester) with other CUV's. Agreed it takes styling cues from them and I don't really like that. My biggest pet peeve is the shrinking windows as you go back. But as far as capability, it's closer to your Jeep Cherokees, in terms of clearance and off-road capability. The Jeeps are a little more in the off-road orientation, and mpg and handling on road suffer. But the Outback is still a good deal more capable off-pavement than Rav4's and CRV's.

If you take the half way compromise between Jeep Grand Cherokee and CRV, you will see an Outback/Forester. And it's the perfect fit for some. The Jeep is better for others. And the CRV is better for others. Different people need different things. If the OB doesn't fit you, don't buy it. Subaru will continue to try to appeal to larger audiences to boost sales numbers.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:11 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by arthuruscg View Post
Well, I guess my family is weird. My family uses SUVs and vans as work/ towing/ family hauling vehicles. Then we used wagons for commuting.

SUVs to us are Cherokees, which wind up lifted with mud tires. And we have a fullsized Ford Van for towing the travel trailer. This is all stuff that the CUVs can not do.

Name one thing that a CUV does better then a minivan. If you say MPG then the EU minivans need to be included since they are closer to the same size as most CUVs. The US minivans are almost up to the same size at full sized vans.

For that matter a wagon does 99% of what most CUV owners use them for. Example, the EU Fusion Wagon vs the Escape. The fusion gets better mpg (22/33mpg vs 22/30), more rear leg room, wider and longer cargo area, the Escape cargo area is taller, both are rated to tow the same, when Ford installs the tow packages (not available on the US Fusion but available ROW), the Fusion has a much lower COG, lower drag and better handling. I have yet to find one thing that the Escape does better then the Fusion wagon. Except that the Escape looks cutie, kind of like the Rav4 and the Beetle with the flow vase.

Now, the Highlander does tow more then the Sienna, but I suspect it is the tires that are dictating the tow/carrying capacity. (Toyota had to reduce the cargo capacity bc of the tire ratings.)

The OB is a very capable car. The AWD system is what makes it so capable. The tire size is what allows for the raised tow rating when compared to the Legacy.

Anyway, back the Gen5 discussion. I hope is it not covered in black or 2 toned plastic.
You would be wrong tire ratings on the Legacy and the OB are the same the reason why you see different tow ratings today is because the Legacy has a lower profit margin than the OB - meaning if your in the business of selling cars for profit you want people who want to tow to purchase the higher priced ie more profitable model.

Just so you know back in 2001 the Legacy had a published tow rating in the US identical to the OB which is nothing more than a Legacy WAGON with taller springs. I even filled out a customer survey around 2005 asking if published tow ratings were important to my vehicle purchase this was a Direct Subaru corporate survey. Shortly after that Subaru stopped publishing tow ratings for the Legacy and the Impreza. They only published tow ratings on the higher profit models like the Impreza outback or today the XV, Forester and OB.

This is purely a marketing sales trick to help push people to the higher profit models.


The reason the Highlander has a higher tow rating than the Sienna is due to the expected passenger hauling ie weight capacity and the reduced cooling ie frontal radiator area that the Sienna has. The Highlander and the Sienna share the same basic structural platform but the Sienna has a higher passenger load rating and weighs a little more empty. Again tire ratings have nothing to do with it given the tires being used on both vehicles meet the specs needed for the tow rated weight of either one.


I tow with our subaru vs our Sequoia for one simple reason. When I tow our tent trailer 900lbs the Subaru returns nearly twice the mileage the Sequoia can give me, the Subaru is more comfortable to ride in and drive and it hauls our camping rig perfectly fine.

We use the Sequoia when we have 5+ people and their added gear tagging along given the Subaru simply cant seat 6 pack the dog and all the gear that 6 people take camping.
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