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Engines burning excessive oil - in 2015 models?

360K views 594 replies 223 participants last post by  tunared 
#1 ·
Hi,
There are several threads about issues with the 2.5L engines burning a lot of oil. I heard on the news that a class action lawsuit is being prepared against the company.

From the article,

A class action lawsuit claims that certain Subaru Forester, Legacy, Outback, Impreza and Crosstek vehicles made since 2011 have defective piston rings which cause the cars to burn oil, possibly causing engine failure.
Is anyone worried that the same defect with the oil piston rings may have carried over to the 2015 models?

cheers,
~d
 
#4 ·
This is an interesting post. My 2011 Outback is approaching 40,000 mi and does not have any oil consumption issues. Does this problem develop at later point, mileage wise? I have the oil changes every 5,000 mi and the level is down maybe 1 pint at that mileage. This is not what I consider excessive oil consumption.
 
#5 ·
There is a problem with the FB25 engine consuming oil. Here is a link to the SubaruForester.org site. 2011+ Excessive Oil Consumption? (merged thread) - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
241 pages and still going strong. Subaru has issued a TSB regarding excessive oil consumption so they are well aware of it. They made a change to the finish on the oil rings to rectify it. BUT a few people that just bought their 2015 Foresters are complaining still about excessive oil consumption so problem may not be solved yet. There are quite a few potential owners for either the Forester or Outback(myself included)who are holding off buying until we know for sure that problem really has been solved.
 
#8 ·
I recall reading at least one review referencing that the 2015 2.5 engine is 80% new for better efficiency. One would hope that any past oil consumption issues would have been addressed.

The impact of these changes on durability/reliability remains to be seen. The large percentage of changes does cause me some concern but my wife's car is due for replacement and the 15 Outback is our top choice.
 
#11 ·
Remember we are talking Subaru. It took them almost 12 years to solve(we hope) the head gaskets issues on the 2.5L engine. I read some threads about the oil consumption being a problem with the 13 and 14s. Not sure if this is true or not. These engines require synthetic oil though I would still change the oil around 4 to 5 thousands miles as if these engines do burn oil, going out 7 thousands miles could be a problem.
 
#9 ·
Had 40k on a 2011 Legacy and 13k on a 2014 Legacy - both 2.5i Limited. Neither burned oil. I did a fair amount of research on the issue when moving to a 2014 from the 2011 and gleaned that oil consumption proved not to be a widespread problem. Given my experience with the 2011 and 2014, and the revision of the 2015 engine to reduce internal friction while increasing power and efficiency, I had no qualms about moving to a 2015. I've only had my Outback for a few days now, but am very impressed by the overall ride quality (not to mention overall quality and styling) and noticeably improved torque band.
 
#13 ·
Should I buy a "build to order" 2015 Outback (or Forester)

Hi,
My wife and I are about ready to buy a 2015 Outback (build to order) or Forester.

Almost signed on the dotted line yesterday and now I found this thread.

What is the consensus on whether 2015 models of the 2.5 engine starting starting today have the problem fixed?

I really appreciate your replies, this is the first new car I'm buying and it's the first Subaru.

Thanks,
Jim
 
#19 ·
Despite some claims to the contrary, I still believe this is largely a function of 0W-20 oil being required. Subaru is far from alone in this "problem", Toyota, Honda, etc. are facing much of the same criticism as well.

FWIW, my 14 OB is about to get it's 2nd oil change. The first was about 4000 miles and I was 1/2 qt down. I've now got about 5000 additional miles on it and the dipstick is showing full. So mine apparantly was using a bit during "break-in". This is by no means excessive.

But, you have:

1. thinner oil.
2. Slicker oil (fully synthetic)
3. Because it's fully synthetic, longer recommended duration between oil changes.
4. Tighter tolerances (meaning presumably the rings have to be thinner as well)
5. Higher oil pressures.

ALL internal combustion engines burn some oil. Every single one ever made, from new. Typically, at a 3000 mile interval with thicker oils on older engines, the amount was so low as to not be noticable. The above factors all increase both how much is burnt between oil changes.
 
#20 ·
I have had many Outbacks, 6 to be exact, starting from my 2011,2013,2014 all had been driven 120 miles per day all highway and not one used a drop of oils between changes at 6500-7000 miles. I have always used Amsoil XL in these. We have kept hess for about 18 months or 50K. Zero warranty with all of these and zero oil usage. They keep getting better and better. The 2014 being the best. There was a big difference between the 2011 and the 2013, the 13 being better ( CVT being the difference) The 2011 was also excellent. I would not worry about any of these. We are talking less than 1/2 of 1% that might have had a problem. Either way I am sure Subaru will step in given time.
 
#21 ·
It was my understanding that oil consumption issues with the new FB series engines is mostly due to improper break-in procedures. When I purchased my '08 Outback (a previous version of the 2.5 with its own problems, oil consumption not being one of them) I was told to drive normally, even aggressively if it suited me. However, I was advised to vary the RPM as much as possible. That wasn't too big of a deal in the stop-and-go traffic I deal with daily. Varying the RPM may require more effort with the CVT since it is designed to keep the RPM consistent in order to maximize fuel economy. I don't know if oil consumption is more common with CVT vs. manual equipped cars, and I would be curious to know.

That being said, I will say that I never had oil consumption (or head gasket}) issues until I started using synthetic oil around 80k miles. Now I go through a quart every 4,000 miles and I had to replace my head gaskets at 91k.

It is my understanding that using anything thicker than 0W-20 in the FB series engines will cause warning lights and reduced performance and economy, so the money you save on that extra quart of oil will be spent at the gas pump instead. Pick your poison.

In conclusion, when you pick up that new car, drive it like you stole it for the first 1,000 miles!
 
#29 · (Edited)
ChicagoJim,
Would you like to buy mine? Dumping my 2012 Chevy Equinox for two reasons. First, the bottom of all four doors exhibited corrosion at 2 and 1/2 years and 34,000 miles. Plenty of posts on the issue. Second, the way the dealership and GM treated me on this issue.
I keep cars for ten years and keep them in top shape. Horrible experience with GM.
Can't wait for my 2015 Outback to arrive!
 
#35 ·
FWIW, I was faced with this same break-in dilemma many years ago when I took delivery of a new Porsche 911S at the factory in Stuttgart, Germany and put about 2,000 miles on it over the next two weeks. My companions and I were unavoidably driving on the no-limit autobahns within a few miles of leaving the factory, and for a while we got some strange looks from passing drivers who were apparently shocked to observe a Porsche ... any Porsche ... running 65 MPH in the slow lane along with all the lowly VWs and Fiats. (We made up for that later in the trip, logging many pleasurable hours cruising in the fast lane at between 90 and 130 MPH.) The second day after delivery we took a lap (~14 miles) around the famous Nurburgring race course; at ~65 MPH average, I may still hold the record for the slowest lap ever recorded there by a Porsche 911, but I didn't overdrive my skill and experience in a still-new car, and I didn't break anything. My 911S and I were both much older when I sold the car 125,000 miles later, but the original engine was still running strong. The break-in must have been OK.

Vehicle Car Regularity rally Windshield Glass
 
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#39 ·
Here's a link which makes me feel better.

From the article:

Here is what we can factually talk about, some Subaru Outback and Legacy models, according to the TSB, 2013 models only, may suffer from piston oil control rings that did not seal during the break in period, the fix is to install a new set of piston rings with an updated ring surface. The problem is that in order to install new rings the entire engine must come out and come apart to do that procedure. The updated piston rings started being used in production as of May 8th 2013, so if you have a newer than that production date and are suffering from high oil consumption this TSB as currently written does not apply to your Subaru, it’s that simple.

Doesn't stop me from feeling worried though...
 
#40 ·
I admit that I was at first going to reply that I don't think there's much here to go on, or to be worried about just because you've ordered a 2015. I'll have to qualify that after reading some on the subject. Note that the most recent (to date, 7/22/14) information about this pertains to a lawsuit against Subaru, and most of that info is now only about 5 days old. So, yes, it is VERY recent.

And lawsuits don't necessarily mean "guilty." (Makes me think of a couple great movies about guilt vs innocence and the tendency to pre-judge; "To Kill a Mockingbird" with Gregory Peck, and "12 Angry Men" with Henry Fonda and others. Some of the best movies ever, IMO. But I digress.)

One other response, to those worrying about buying the first year of a new model vehicle. I disagree that it is some "truth" that you shouldn't ever do this.
Remember, there are MANY factors that go into what you should buy and when. And they don't all have to do with whether something is a first year vehicle or not. Your own situation may dictate that you MUST buy something at this time. And the ALTERNATIVES you might consider may not be first year vehicles but that doesn't make them better choices!

I've read what some have said they would buy instead, and I wouldn't even consider those vehicles, no matter how long they've been around.
Today, I was discussing car buying with a friend at work, and she and her husband made the mistake (her words) of buying one of these "other" vehicles. She said it was nothing but a CONSTANT nightmare.
(If Virginia had lemon laws back then, I'm sure she could have qualified and gotten rid of it. I don't mention the vehicle type here because I don't have any other experience with that car, but I also doubt I ever will!)

I DID do some reading about this oil issue, and it is not comforting reading.
But it doesn't YET sway me away from the 2015 Outback I ordered and still have 1st right of refusal on purchasing it when it arrives. I'll keep listening, reading, and doing ONE MORE THING I recommend everyone do if you have already placed an order OR have taken delivery of a new car.
FIND OUT WHAT THE LEMON LAWS ARE in YOUR STATE!

I honestly didn't think Virginia even had a lemon law yet, but it turns out we do. And it does provide for a replacement vehicle or a refund if that new car needs repair for same defect 3 or more times for same problem, OR the car is in for repairs for 30 days in one year.
See link: Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles

So know what your state laws provide and be sure to document everything. Check and write down odometer mileage every time you note a problem, get the dealer involved ASAP, make SURE the dealer doesn't write up the problem as something different each time but clearly defines the issue according to what YOU say is the problem. And save every document. As someone on one of the feedback notes I read said, Make sure the dealer provides an invoice to you every time you have car in for the problem. Don't let it just get looked at and no paperwork done. And save ALL the invoices. Don't count on the dealer to have logged it in with Subaru of America, even if you normally get that recording done automatically by the dealer.

Well, I really still think this problem is NOT a huge problem in terms of the percentage of Subaru cars that had or have it, but it obviously IS huge to those who get an oil burning engine and then have a VERY expensive time fighting with Subaru for costly repairs and lost time etc.

Now, I'm going to go to bed and sleep soundly.
When my 2015 arrives, I'll drive it, make sure it seems right on all the obvious things like ride comfort, steering response, etc, check the oil level myself at the beginning, and ultimately, I guess, take it home and monitor how it goes.
 
#41 ·
I admit that I was at first going to reply that I don't think there's much here to go on, or to be worried about just because you've ordered a 2015. I'll have to qualify that after reading some on the subject. Note that the most recent (to date, 7/22/14) information about this pertains to a lawsuit against Subaru, and most of that info is now only about 5 days old. So, yes, it is VERY recent... ]

Just to clarify, the LAWSUIT is very recent. but the oil consumption problem has been known about in varying degrees for over a year, and Subaru has had at least 4 TSBs dealing with this, though they still seem to deny there is a problem, and have NOT issued a recall related to it.
 
#43 ·
So I emailed the person at SOA who has been giving me updates on my Outback order and here is what she had to say. I find it somewhat reassuring.

-- Begin --
I do not have any information about the proposed lawsuit at this time, nor would I be able to comment on pending litigation.

I can tell you that Subaru of America, Inc. is dedicated to delivering quality. Should anything happen to a vehicle protected by the manufacturer's warranty, Subaru of America, Inc. would work to find a resolution. Any of the repairs being completed now to prevent oil consumption have been implemented into production of new vehicles.

I thank you for coming to me with these concerns.
--End--
 
#44 ·
So I emailed the person at SOA who has been giving me updates on my Outback order and here is what she had to say. I find it somewhat reassuring.

-- Begin --
I do not have any information about the proposed lawsuit at this time, nor would I be able to comment on pending litigation.

I can tell you that Subaru of America, Inc. is dedicated to delivering quality. Should anything happen to a vehicle protected by the manufacturer's warranty, Subaru of America, Inc. would work to find a resolution. Any of the repairs being completed now to prevent oil consumption have been implemented into production of new vehicles.

I thank you for coming to me with these concerns.
--End--
Um, exactly what reassures you about this response?
If you are that easily reassured, I suggest you don't read up on the complaints, or you won't be resting easy for long.
A good BS filter works both ways. All I heard in that response was pure BS, and sadly, exactly what I'm beginning to expect from SoA.
Just as I discount some of the complaints I've read about the oil consumption issue, I discount ALL "typical" responses from Subaru. I'd consider the response you quoted as total garbage; it answers nothing and promises nothing.
Ask the owners of oil burners what Subaru did to assist them; that tells you what Subaru will do if you happen to get one also.

Personally, while I have not YET bailed out on an already ordered 2015 Outback, I sure am listening more closely and considering my options, one of which is to drive the Forester I've had for 15 years for yet ANOTHER year while I figure out if Subaru fiddled while oil burned...

(And that's NOT what I really want to do!)
 
#45 ·
I would like to know what SOA considers "acceptable" oil use and then determine if that is acceptable to me. In others words, what would be the worse case scenario.

BTW I haven't owned a car in 30 years that required oil between changes. I do ALL my oil changes myself so I know this to be case.
 
#46 ·
I had a 1978 diesel VW Rabbit in the 80's. I drove it cross country and along the way the piston rings failed. On the last day of the trip, I had to add oil once per hour. If I shut the engine off, it would not start up again because not enough compression, so I'd add the oil while the engine was running, with the rocker arms splashing it back in my face (that's how that engine was set up).

Sometimes, a lot of oil would get past the rings. Oil made great diesel fuel and the car would just start accelerating. I had to learn to just step on the clutch and put it in neutral when that happened so I didn't take off too fast (not that a 1978 diesel Rabbit was ever capable of anything close to "fast")

OK, not relevant to this Subaru discussion, but I always remember that trip and it is how I learned about piston rings.
 
#48 ·
One of the open questions is why did Subaru reduce the oil change interval for MY 2015 cars from 7500 to 6000 miles. I asked this questions directly to Subaru and their answer was "to increase customer satisfaction".

I don't see how changing oil more frequently could increase customer satisfaction.

If Subaru has really found and implemented solution to the oil consumption problem, why did they reduce the oil change interval, instead of increasing it to 10,000 miles, it in-line with 90% of the car industry? Toyota, Honda, Chrysler, ... - all have 10,000 miles oil change interval as standard. Subaru is the only manufacturer these days that require such frequent oil changes in their normally aspirated engines.
 
#49 ·
In all likelihood, they are hoping they fixed the problem, but if the oil consumption problem continues ... by having more frequent oil changes they can obfuscate the problem, making any oil consumption less noticeable. If this is the case, it's not very reassuring regarding the company's ethics, imho.
 
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