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2015 Outback in deep sand

38K views 59 replies 32 participants last post by  LogicalPosition 
#1 ·
We live on a barrier island along the coast of NC, where permits are issued to 4WD trucks to drive along the beach below the high tide mark after the summer tourist season. The local Police Chief agrees with me that our ordered 2015 Outback may be able to manage the deep, soft sand present at the ramps that lead to the beach. I've offered to take him for a ride along, and he's seen the video of the Outback pulling off the rollers using only one wheel. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mryGnENTsoI)
If we don't encounter problems, he says he will issue us a permit. They have only offered these for 4x4 trucks before. My question is: has anyone had experience in this type of deep soft sand? And does the ~9" of clearance sound sufficient?
 
#2 ·
Tires and momentum are your friends in such a situation. The clearance is similar to many 4X4 vehicles that would start dragging the differential or shock mounts about the same point as when the outback will drag its differential. The relatively light weight of the Outback should help. My biggest worry would be the street oriented tires. The only way to know is to try. Worst case you get a little assist from a Jeep or truck with deep AT/MT tire treads. Do you happen to have a tow strap and know how to access the Outback's tow point?
 
#14 ·
Curious for more tech detail about how the AWD works, any links? Are you saying that the power split is different in low gear?
So, the consensus seems to be 1. drop the pressure in the tires, but not much below 20psi, 2. turn off the traction control, 3. keep moving until you're on the hard packed sand, 4. Use first or second gear in manual mode. What about the X-drive function?
I don't know much about sand but I did play with X-drive the other day... seems like it would be most useful in keeping under control while descending a slippery steep.
 
#5 ·
Doug I ran 18lbs in my truck tires on Fathers Day weekend during an off road adventure. I would not take the subaru tires down below 18lbs given you just do not have enough tire to go that low. The guys running really big over sized tires were running 12-15lbs and one of them actually popped his tire off the wheel.

15lbs is too low for the subaru you just do not have enough tire to do that. Anything in the 18-20lb range will enlarge your contact patch and surface area enough to float the Subaru over sand. The car does not weigh much. Keep it out of Auto mode though!!! Put it in manual 1st or 2nd.
 
#23 ·
Now that's a stretch! No way I'd pit my OB against my Jeep Wrangler (riding 35's @ 7 PSI) in the sand. Driving to the sand give me the OB hands down, on the sand the Jeep would dominate in every respect.
 
#7 ·
I've driven in deep sand with other vehicles (non-Subaru). The vehicles I've driven benefit from the following...

0. MOMENTUM and driver skill
1. Tire surface area (most people will tell you to air down to 15-20 psi)
2. Low range power
3. Ground clearance
4. True 4 wheel drive

I suspect an Outback could get through many sandy situations, but will be challenged by #1 and #2

Just remember, DO NOT STOP UNTIL YOU GET TO FLAT/HARDER ground. If you slow down, you will need more low range power to keep the wheels moving and avoid sinking in... and I don't mean just more torque, I mean lower gearing, a true "low range" that most cross-over utility vehicles do not have.

You will also likely do better with smaller rims (i.e. the limited outback will do worse than the base, assuming same engine) . This is why real off-road trucks will have closer to 16" rims, and poser vehicles will have 20" rims. When they air down, there is more tire to flatten and give you more surface area.

Perhaps I could translate into Subaru-speak... think of it like trying to blast through a one hundred foot long, one foot high FRESH snow drift :)
 
#9 ·
Have two carpet scraps in the back to use as sand ladders if you need it. Even my Legacy GT did exceptionally well in the sand. No need for a low 4x4 gear the car does not weigh enough to need that grinding power. In soft chopped up spots you simply have the traction control system turned off button on your dash this way it lets you spin tires without cutting power, and you keep your foot in it to carry momentum through the chopped up soft hill climb spots. On the flats the Subaru will out perform just about every heavy 4x4 on the dunes.

Been there done that lots of posters here seem to have no experience with subarus on the sand. They are nothing like heavy SUV's and do not need low gearing.
 
#11 ·
So, the consensus seems to be 1. drop the pressure in the tires, but not much below 20psi, 2. turn off the traction control, 3. keep moving until you're on the hard packed sand, 4. Use first or second gear in manual mode. What about the X-drive function?
 
#12 ·
X drive if your moving slow enough but most of my sand driving was at higher speeds than what the X drive I think will operate at. You get bogged down and moving slower than 15mph then X drive may help manage available traction to pull you out of a tough spot but I'm not sure its much use when your carrying momentum through soft spots.
 
#15 ·
I have taken our Forester (2010, with a 4EAT transmission) on the sand in the outer banks before (stayed in Hatteras village, took it out to the inlet). I got the permit from the national park service center at Pea Island.

No problems at all. I took the same precautions you should take with any vehicle on sand. Stick to the harder stuff where possible, have recovery equipment, etc. Any vehicle CAN get stuck in sand, but if you're used to sand driving, a Subaru should be fine. Light weight, when compared to trucks, helps a lot, and you float more easily. Airing down helps that further, of course. In those senses, a Subaru is actually superior to a truck on sand (though something like a Jeep Wrangler rules). The ultimate step is to get wider tires, preferably with an A/T tread pattern. That's where the Subie is limited, as it won't take real wide tires.

We've not yet had the OB down there, but don't think it'll be any different. Was a little concerned about the CVT, perhaps overheating or something, but reports on this forum have me less concerned about it now.

8.7" of clearance is very good for a car. It's more than many body on frame SUV's and equivalent to your average mid-size truck. Both axles are always engaged, though the Subaru varies the amount based on a million different variables (acceleration, turning, slope, etc). That's assuming no slip. The bias (meaning going straight down a level road at steady speed) is said to be 60 front/40 rear, but from my understanding it almost never is exactly 60/40. If slip is detected, it'll increase pressure on the mutli-plate clutch, i.e. bias more towards 50/50 front-rear torque split, as well as brake the slipping wheel to simulate an LSD. In older versions, like our Forester, manually putting it into 1st or 2nd gear would bias the torque split more towards 50/50 front-rear and make the car more "reluctant" to allow it to vary. I'm not sure whether that's still true in the new version, but the addition of X-mode should do the same thing, as well as make the simulated LSD wheel braking thing more sensitive.

That ABS enabled braking is where you have to be aware that Subaru AWD does not act like a 4x4. In non slip situations, you still got torque going to 4 wheels, which makes beginning to slip less likely (and this is why lesser AWD systems that default to FWD are inferior). But if you do get into trouble and start spinning tires, a 4x4 is just locked in, and a mechanical LSD transfers torque immediately. But in a Subaru, you may have torque to both axles, but left-right torque split is through open diffs. So if one wheel on both axles are slipping, they get all the power, and you don't move. That is, until the point where the system sees that you have a problem, applies the brakes to the spinning wheel, which throws torque to the other wheel, and you go. Under normal circumstances, perhaps there had to be a 20% difference in wheel speed between left and right wheels on the same axle before brakes would kick in. Otherwise it'd apply brakes during simple turning, which isn't good. Hence, if spinning, counterintuitively you should apply MORE throttle, and once the spin hits a high enough speed the system will respond appropriately. With X-mode on, it lowers that threshold so that it responds quicker, though none of us know by how much. But this is why you shouldn't leave X-mode on all the time, just like you shouldn't leave a 4x4 locked in all the time or you'll hop wheels and stress transfer cases and differentials when turning. As was said, I do believe X-mode shuts itself off, though, once vehicle speed hits a certain threshold, so it kind of protects itself.
 
#18 ·
I have driven on the loose sands of the Outer Banks in North Carolina, and Freeman Park in Carolina Beach with a 2013 Outback 2.5i CVT. No problems, didnt even air down my tires.

 
#19 ·
Good speed in that video... that is key. And great point someone made about disabling certain functions to ensure car doesn't cut power when it detects wheel spin. I look forward to learning more about which to turn off or leave on. My Volvo definitely needed to turn off DSTC before rushing into deep snow.
 
#20 ·
Any slow speed soft surface or slick surface stuff you turn off all the systems that cut throttle and prevent wheel spin you also select transmission modes that set fairly fixed power vs having highly active power transfer given you will have tires spin and you want the system to tolerate this and keep driving power to them vs shifting power all over the place the second a wheel spins free etc.
 
#22 ·
Automatic set to Manual mode 1st gear and 2nd gear sets up the most basic dumb 50/50 power split.

Turning off the traction control reduces the active management aspect of wheel spin thus making the car tolerate more wheel spin without cutting power which is a big deal in snow and sand where you need power to push through.

X mode is a technical mode where slow going over a surface thats uneven be it up hill down hill etc and one feature of X mode is that it keeps the wheels turning to avoid causing the car to skid and slide hence why most people see X mode as more of a down hill thing than anything else. But X mode also adds logic to the traction hunting ability which controls wheel spin and most likely uses a much more aggressive braking pressure on wheels that spin thus pushing more power across to the opposite side etc, vs the non Xmode car may brake a spinning tire then release it under a very short period of time causing more power loss on the opposite side of the car etc.

X mode simply is computer logic that increases the various levels of wheel spin management through faster and longer brake control and probably added levels of power split control between front and rear.

Down hill X mode's #1 goal is to keep tires turning given the second you skid a tire you start to loose the ability to turn or keep the car positioned on the trail vs say slipping to the side and getting hung up on rock or brush etc.
 
#24 ·
The old Jeeps weigh nothing thats a big reason they do so well off road regardless of the terrain type.

Todays Jeeps the larger ones are heavy and they need larger foot prints via larger tires to stay on top vs get buried to the hubs. Same goes for any 4x4 the larger and heavier it is the more surface area it needs via aired down big tires.

The subarus are more or less fairly light and the size of their tire contact patch with minimal airing down makes them pretty decent in the sand. They are not going to sink to the hubs the second they hit the soft stuff, that and they drive pretty dang good too with the AWD making it pretty easy to point the car where you want to go while carrying some speed ie momentum through soft chopped up patches.
 
#26 ·
Mine's a '91 and weighs in at about 4,000lbs. Gearing and large contact patches from the tires make's all the difference in the world. Aired up and in high range and it's a totally difference story.
 
#25 ·
Soft sand on a 4x4-restricted beach is a lot of what led me to an outback in the first place. The family vacation spot is on such a beach in Massachusetts. You've already read the important stuff- clearance helps a lot, and airing down is occasionally useful though I haven't needed to so that yet. Pick a high line, don't always follow the deepest ruts.

Don't count on momentum. In fact I think that's bad advice. You need the freedom to stop wherever you are and the confidence that you'll be able to get going again, and if you don't have that then you've taken your car too far off road. Why? Traffic. In my case, there are a number of one-lane tracks used for bi-directional traffic, and some have limited visibility. And there are pedestrians including clueless children running around. After all, it is a vacation spot.

So yes, momentum will work to get you through really bad spots you couldn't otherwise pass, but it's probably wrong to count on that solution for anything other than a true emergency.
 
#29 ·
I have taken my 08 LL Bean H6 all over ocracoke, hatteras, Avon, carova, both loaded and unloaded. I have (25psi) and have not aired down and never had any hint of an issue. In fact it does better on the sand than my 1982 Toyota landcruiser. Never any issues with ground clearance or stopping and starting, nor did I drive like a lunatic to keep momentum. I just cruised right along, I frankly was amazed.

I can't speak for CVT, but I'm sure it will be fine. I have seen numerous CVT's cruising around.
 
#31 ·
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but this one does get close to what I'm researching, and it sounds like there are several of you with some experience that should help. My wife's '12 OB needs new tires, and sand driving is an important consideration for us. We got (slightly) stuck this summer once on the stock tires, and part of that was our inexperience with AWD, part was my overconfidence in the OB's ability. We've always taken my '05 Wrangler on the beach, and I assumed hers would have just as easy a time as mine.

So I've taken some lessons here: traction control off, manual mode in 1st/2nd to get the right F/R split, lower pressure when needed (I knew that, but didn't think I'd need it at the time).

With the Jeep, I've learned that M/T tires are BAD in the sand. I struggled in the sand with the aggressive M/Ts that came on it, but it's been great since I switched to A/Ts. I also went a little wider (10" vs. 9").

I've read good things about the Yokohama Geolander AT/S. Thoughts? Since it seems there's little or no room to increase patch with a taller tire (which wouldn't do that much anyway unless I get MUCH taller), can I go any wider and not rub? Does anyone have other suggestions?

We're in FL, so snow doesn't matter. Rain does. Mud could, on rare occasion, if there's a nasty storm that causes major issues, but really, we'd probably hop in the Jeep for that. Normally I'd say that cost is a big factor as I'm a cheap SOB, but with my wife and often my 1-year-old son in the car, I'm going to be a bit of a softy on the cost part.

Thanks, in advance, for any advice.

Geoff
St. Johns, FL
 
#32 ·
geoffmarton: I've got P225/60R16 Michelin Primacy MXV4s on my 07 2.5i basic (no rear LSD) and at 15PSI it does rather well on loose Oahu sand. Those tires are also outstanding on the street.
 
#35 ·
Ok, my husband & I are considering a 3.6R to replace our 2005 jeep liberty which may need replacement of cylinder #3.

Must-have is a vehicle that can easily traverse very soft, deep sand getting on & off the beach in Ocracoke, NC.

vehicles that never got stuck at 18psi & 15 psi are a land rover discovery & the liberty.
I always felt more confident locking the differential on the disco. Only occasionally feel the need to put the jeep in low.

I know my husband is not going to be happy if we need to buy a different set of tires or have to worry about getting stuck because we should have used manual mode or x-mode. Have read some thread about OB overheating in conditions like deep sand?

There is one stretch where it can be a good 10 minute ride in deep soft conditions, depending on tide. Do not want a vehicle that is stressed & likely to overheat in that circumstance.

Also, it is not unusual to need to start & stop in the deep stuff when giving the right of way to an entering or exiting vehicle, so not practical to assume we will be fine if we just keep up our momentum.

We make the trip 3-4 times a year, but we are not off-roaders, so we need a vehicle that is pretty idiot-proof. For the disco & the jeep, it was simple: take the air down and stay in the tracks.

When I read that taking the air down could make things worse, I am wondering if the outback really isn't designed for soft sand conditions and I should look for an alternative. A wrangler is not good for the 8 hr trip getting there and the other affordable jeep, a cherokee, doesn't have very good usable cargo space and the visibility is not nearly as good as the liberty or the outback.

If you have taken your 2014 or 2015 OB to the outer banks in deep soft sand, let me know what you think, thanks.
 
#36 ·
Ok, my husband & I are considering a 3.6R to replace our 2005 jeep liberty which may need replacement of cylinder #3.

Must-have is a vehicle that can easily traverse very soft, deep sand getting on & off the beach in Ocracoke, NC
We haven't taken ours to NC yet (that's coming in May) but we do regularly drive on NJ shore with absolutely zero problems. I used to go to Outer Banks every summer and I am very familiar with driving on the beaches there. Got stuck there once (rental Ford Explorer). Generally, I'd say NJ sands are better packed, especially in winter. But there can be exceptions. Particularly, the entry/exit points can be very deep, soft and have significant grade. We went trough all of them with ease. I don't think you'll have any problems in NC as long as you deflate the tires, like you said.
 
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