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19mm sway bar

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#1 ·
I just completed the 19mm sway bar modification. I know this mod has been mentioned in another thread, however I think it would be useful to have its own thread to consolidate all the info out there for those who are considering doing it.

I’ll aim this post at someone like myself who rarely works on cars but has a basic tool knowledge that goes a little beyond righty-tighty, lefty-loosey, but is also a little intimidated by the thought of “ripping apart” a brand new car whose suspension is really very adequate as is. I’m completely A.R . about knowing exactly what is the correct way to do something and using the proper tools to do it. I spent hours researching all the threads I could find on Subaru forums, as well as researching other issues and questions that arose as a result of that effort. The most helpful info I found was on this forum:

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/104-gen-4-2010-2014/24867-sway-bar-mod-picture-tutorial-7.html

First of all, why do it? I’m actually still not sure exactly why. It’s my understanding that the stiffer 19mm bar will essentially enable the back of the car to follow the front of the car in a more responsive way than the OEM 16mm sway bar and should reduce the rolling feeling in sharper turns. I liked the feel of the original suspension but was curious what difference it might make. The bar runs the length of the rear axle and connects the left and right side suspension assemblies together. My concern was that I would trade up to crisper handling at the expense of a harsher ride. That concern turned out to be totally unfounded.

Secondly, how hard is it and what tools and experience level do I need? Big picture, it’s ridiculously simple. You’re essentially undoing 6 bolts, swapping out the OEM bar for the 19mm bar, and re-tightening the bolts {on a new car with no rust you could probably get away with any kind of a 12mm and 14mm wrench (or rachet) as a bare minimum, but more on tools later}. The bar is a long rod running underneath the back with a 90 degree forward bend in each end. The ends are attached by a 14mm bolt to the upper end of a short vertical piece about 4” long called an endlink. The lower end of the endlink is attached to the lower control arm on the rear suspension. The bar itself is bolted onto the car frame at each end by a C-shaped clamp with 2 12mm bolts at the top and bottom of the clamp. The clamp holds a 1” wide bushing which encases the bar. It took me about 2 hours because I took my time and looked around underneath and thought it through so that I wouldn’t find myself undoing something I couldn’t put back together. If I did it again I could easily do it in under 1/2 hour. The most time-consuming thing would be using Goo Gone to remove the part sticker that peels off in microscopic pieces.

So how do you do it? Here is where it gets a little not-so-simple because I read a lot of conflicting advice, but here is the sum total of what I could glean.

1. First position the car properly. Everything I read suggested that this install should be done with the suspension loaded (ie. weight on the wheels). Right away I got confused because the Subaru recommended procedure for the install has removing the wheels as the first step. I modified their procedure and left the wheels on as most people seem to do. Also, you could probably scoot underneath in a pinch, but it becomes a whole lot easier to raise the back end on ramps or jack it up and lower it onto wheel cradles. I used Race Ramps RR-30 Rally Ramps and they were perfect:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H5PTQIU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I hate trusting my life to a single point of failure so in addition to using ramps with the parking brake set, I also positioned backup jack stands and chocked the wheels.

2. To remove the bar, I first disconnected the 14mm endlink attachment. This bolt has a smooth flat end on the outside end facing the tire, and the other inside end has a hex cutout in the bolt end that accepts a 5mm allen wrench. On a new car you could probably get it loosened with a 14mm rachet or wrench and spin it free by hand. If the bolts are rusted or stubborn, once the bolt is initially loosened it may spin with the wrench, so it would need to be held on the same end as your 14mm wrench by a 5mm allen wrench inserted in the bolt end. The ideal setup is a ratcheting 14mm boxend wrench on the nut with a 5mm allen wrench on the same bolt end, but you could probably figure out a way to coax it out using less orthodox methods.

Next you simply loosen and remove the 4 12mm bolts holding on the 2 bushing clamps. Don’t worry about it falling - even with the endlink bolt nuts removed the bar is still held in place until you maneuver it off the bolts. Make a note when you remove the bushing clamps that they are also secured at the top by a hook that goes through a small hole in the bushing mounting plate.

3. To install the new bar, most people have been using this Subaru part:

Subaru Outback Rear 19MM Sway Bar Kit (Part No: 20451FG020-20464FG020 x2)

You have to first position the two bushings on the bar - there is a split in the rubber that opens to fit it over the bar. The kit comes with instructions on where to position them but big picture there’s really only one place that they can go and it’s pretty obvious if you look at the original bar. The bushings that come with the 19mm kit are stamped “18”, and the bushings on the 16mm OEM bar are stamped “15”. It all works, so go figure...

I first loosely installed the 14mm endlink bolts, and then lightly bolted on the 12mm bushing clamps to make sure the bushings were centered properly. Then I snugged down the endlink bolts a little on each side at a time until they were pretty tight. Then I used a torque wrench and tightened to spec (14mm bolt is 24.3 ft-lb). This is where having the rear end raised on ramps is really nice to accommodate the extra shaft length of a torque wrench. Then I torqued the 12mm clamp bolts to spec (28.0 ft-lb). That’s all there is to it!

So here are some questions and “tips” that I came across to muddy the waters.

1. Will this void the warranty? PROBABLY NOT given that it is a Subaru part. It would have to be shown that the install caused some problem. Consensus has it that a Subaru mechanic wouldn’t even notice the difference with a casual glance. If you use an aftermarket brand then I don’t know.

2. Will the stiffer bar require a “beefier” endlink? Apparently not.

3. Should you lube the bushings? The original bushings show no indication of a lubricant. They are made of softer rubber and work fine by themselves. Aftermarket poly bushings are made of a harder material that will eventually squeak if not lubricated.

4. Should you use locktight or some kind of lubricant on the bolts? The original bolts show no evidence of this.

I learned a lot about torque. Torque specs are based on “dry” hardware. If there is anything that eases the way the parts move during tightening (eg locktite, anti-seize, etc) you can actually overtorque a bolt to the point of snapping it off. Don’t overthink it - I wiped my bolts dry and torqued them down just fine. You could probably get away with the backyard mechanic special of tight plus one more push for good measure. I also learned that a torque wrench should be calibrated and stored with the torque at the lowest setting. I pitched my 20-year-old wrench that had sat forever with the torque at a high setting and got a new one.

When all was said and done, I honestly can’t discern a noticeable difference in handling, but I sure had fun doing it. It did track straight as an arrow through a wicked crosswind the other day. If anyone can correct anything I said please chime in because I’m by no means an expert.
 
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#1,144 ·
Whew!

The Paperwork is on me...

The Gen5 is weird. It takes a step back in the front of the chassis. The Gen4 fronts are huge, and a bigger bar.

I want to assure everyone, I support these products. So feel free to reach out with questions or feedback, positive or negative.

The reduced number cast into the bushings is a big question...There is a detailed description on ebay. The OEM bushings are reduced by 1mm to ensure a tight fit. One of the benefits of an oem duplicate.
 
#1,156 ·
The come from me, tdck

Here is a link to my ebay pages. However, if you want the 85d for the 2015-2018 front and rear sway bar bushings they ... are not yet listed. I need a clone to tidy up those pages. All of the 75d are available.

The 85d for the 19mm and 20mm are there. just click the "see all items" button.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/teleguyck

remeber all proceeds are currently being donated to...

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/61-general-discussions/469065-gofundme-memorial-help.html
@rexican you can email me at chris.ckessp@gmail.com since you don't 10 posts yet.
 
#1,157 ·
I got the 19mm RSB + endlinks, and the front and rear 75d bushings installed. It's a major improvement on my 2018 - now it handles like my 2015 Legacy did. May more of an upgrade than I had with the bar and endlinks only on the 2012 Legacy! Turns without seeming to roll half over. Now I'm tempted to waste more money for the front sway bar, but I can't imagine a huge difference even though I have the 3.6R. It's quite good now, very minimal roll in the front and the back stays flat feeling!
 
#1,158 ·
Bushing question

Traildogdck,

I just took delivery of a 2018 Outback 3.6r. I ordered a 19mm bar for the back and am interested in a set of ft/rr bushings. Do/can you make them for this application in black as I do not want to attract attention from the dealer. Because I'm looking for an improvement from stock with minimal harshness I believe I'd be looking at a hardness of 75d. Lastly, I know the rears are cake to put in, how's the fronts in regard to access? Sorry to everyone for hijacking this thread however I tried to send a pm but forum would not allow with low post count.
Thanks in advance!
 
#1,159 ·
Funny about a need for upgrade bushings, when I swapped out the 16mm OEM bar/bushings to the 19mm, I saw such an improvement that I had no thought to even consider upgrading the bushings....and, of course, the car looks totally stock which was another goal, just in case....

I don't tend to go off road except very occasionally BUT the supplied bushings were just fine.....the main thing I wanted to fix was that dreaded 1965 Impala Wagon sway when going around progressively tighter freeway cloverleaf ramps........with the 19, the overall ride is unchanged BUT the car tracks so much better.........

Steve
 
#1,160 ·
Just installed the 20mm bar last night. Loved how easy it was to install, especially since the bolts havent rusted on yet. It definitely made a difference in handling, but I expected more I guess. Its surprising that they put a RSB this small on the STI. My GTI had a larger one stock and I put an even larger one on.

Nice upgrade though, maybe ill try out the harder bushings to see if that makes a difference, but I also dont want to end up with creaky bushings over time like my GTI did with harder bushings. It would be cool if you could add some zerk fittings to the harder bushings to grease it easily.
 

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#1,162 ·
@traildogck Question for you.

What do you say about Ply bushings needing to be greased on a regular basis, vs rubber being set it and forget it?
He will say: 1. The performance that poly gives you can't be duplicated by rubber and having to grease them every 2-3 or so years is the tradeoff for the performance. Since they are easy to install, greasing isn't so difficult. 2. He'd like the idea of a grease fitting but since the squeaking can come from the opposite of the bar from the fitting, there's no guarantee that the grease will migrate there. Since a good grease, such as M1 synthetic, stays where it's put, a Zerk fitting won't ensure success. 3. He'd also say he's bald.
 
#1,168 ·
Hi all, I'm new to the Subaru world. Please forgive me for not reading through all 116 pages, I plan to read them when I have more time, but I could use a little advice now. I just purchased a 2018 Limited OB that I plan to lift 2 inchs. I also ordered a 19mm RSB because I found some positive reviews on Google. I know I can't get the OB to handle like my Corvette, but it would be nice to get the roll better (less). Most of my driving is on the highway (between 70 and 80 mph) to work with some accessional dirt roads. Is the 19mm RSB enough, or should I also consider bushings?


Thanks ahead for any advice.


Beary
 
#1,171 ·
I would if I were you, but consider the source of this information. I'm the guy slinging bushings.

Look, the center of gravity is going up. (literally) The unsprung weight at each suspended corner is going up. The sway bars help control body roll, but also the unsprung weight at the wheels due to wheel impacts.

Increasing the loads applied through he sway bars certainly warrants a higher performance bushing. This is very common in the off-road truck world. Lift kits come with larger components and higher performance bushings.

There is the NVH thing. However, people do not report undesired NVH effects from CKE SSP products. If you are lifting and going bigger tires and off road, NVH is not high on your list of what to avoid anyway.
 
#1,189 ·
Brucey: Please share what differences you have noticed after installing poly bushings

traildogck: You said you have not had any NHV complaints. How long have you been slinging these and about how many are on the road?

Thanks,
Dan
 
#1,190 ·
If you put an "@" in front of the username, it "mentions" them. Like this @Brucey. Then they get a notification.


traildogck: You said you have not had any NHV complaints. How long have you been slinging these and about how many are on the road?

Thanks,
Dan
Test mules have been out there for about 6-7 months. I wasn't really keeping track of how many went out the door in the beginning, I developed the 1st as favors for XRT comrades. Over the last 3-4 months there are 70-80 sets out there. Some folks are running front and rear, some just running one end.
 
#1,195 ·
My grandfather was a school teacher, and a postman. I prefer to use the USPS if at all possible. I have no control over what happens after I print a label. I did find out today that there were trucks just sitting in Denver for weeks ... weeks due to the amount of mail leaving the Front Range during the holidays. Small packages are so easily overlooked.

I started ramping up right about the holidays. There were (4) issues out of maybe (40) shipments. I do understand how frustrating it is for the person waiting. All in all, it's still better than dealing with UPS or FedEx. More economical too since I cover either 1/2 or all the shipping costs. Who else does that? Plus, look at the customer service. You can't get Prothane to turn around custom colors in a couple days. Oh wait, Prothane doesn't make performance bushings for our cars. Only CKE SSP does.


BTW, recent orders shipped today....
 
#1,199 ·
I've added RSBs to three Subies, one Honda, one Golf using CKE SSP armstong torque technique - snug em down tight, but not vein bulging tight. Never had an issue with this technique.
 
#1,201 ·
I ran a 20mm RSB for a year before installing the bushings traildogck is offering. As Brucey indicates, the response is immediate,No waiting for something to happen.
 
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#1,203 ·
The front and rear install of my 75 d took about an hour and that with pulling the front wheels off. The bushings look well made with OE markings on the sides. In hindsight, I think I would have purchases the 85d . While the 75 d are certainly an improvement with no additional harness over stock,I think they are still pliable for what I am accustomed to using on other vehicles in the past. I want to add this is no meant to be a poor reflection on the vendor as he offers different level of hardness. Ultimately I am not familiar with the ratings in hardness of plastics in terms of manufacturing. My review does support another poster who also said he skip to 85d.
 
#1,204 ·
@NickP1969 Thank You for posting your feedback. I appreciate it as others here will as well.

Ultimately I am not familiar with the ratings in hardness of plastics in terms of manufacturing. My review does support another poster who also said he skip to 85d.
I wasn't really either, and if any of you are familiar with typical aftermarket "poly" bushings are an 80-to-85d. That's is what they are targeting. However, materials that manufacturers use are not the same.

My original prototypes were the 22mm front to fit the 2010-2012 LGT. The test mules loved them. These testers didn't much care about NVH, but they made no requests for anything harder. However, the bushing when felt in my hand, felt like a rock. I was concerned about fitting something so hard in a family car. I was able to personally test one local car with the 75d and verified there was no additional NVH.

I would rather have a few out there who are unimpressed, than most of you feeling like they ruined their ride.

PM sent ... we can work something out to get you the performance you were expecting.
 
#1,206 ·
Folks,

Thanks for this. I was in the 60MPH gusts we were having on the east coast, and I couldnt believe how well the Outback did. Heck, the 30MPH gusts, and 20MPH winds didnt bother me at all!

Huge difference on my 2017...
 
#1,208 ·
Well, finally got mine installed today. Had a discount coupon at the dealership for the sway bar and they got it to me in just one day. Ordered the front and rear bushings from @traildogck and he shipped on 4/4, USPS priority, expected delivery 4/6. Actual arrival 4/11. Missed it by that much. Oh well, I didn't have time and between out of town bike trips, rain and extra time at work, today was the first good chance. 85d bushings in rear with 19mm sway bar, 75d bushings in the front. Took just over an hour to get them installed. It sure is nice working on a new, clean car. Took it out for a quick spin and definitely noticed a change for the better. Hit some bumpy roads, did some swerving, and one u-turn where I eased up on the wheel abruptly just to see body roll. Very nice. The test better test will be going to work tomorrow though a construction zone and home on a curvy road. No wind out today so could test its effect.
 
#1,209 ·
Any insight as to what kind of NVH harder swaybar bushings can transmit? I understand semi solid motor mounts may transmit a lot of vibration, but what about SB bushings? I can't really imagine what kind of NVH it would really transmit other than some suspension noise. Just some creekyness and noise over bumps and around corners? Really looking to lock the car down on the highway. I feel that the wandering due to crosswinds is sometimes really scary.

Thinking 75 hardness front, 85 hardness rear with 20mm sway bar. Anyone with this setup or similar have any thoughts?
 
#1,210 ·
With the 20mm rear bar, I think you want the 85d up front and the 75d or 85d in the rear. However that is based on design expectations. There are others here who may be able to comment. I wouldn't go to 85d in the rear on a 20mm bar without going to 85d in the front.

Most folks do NOT experience any NVH on the Gen5 chassis
 
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