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New Recall for 2015 Outbacks (?)

29K views 34 replies 22 participants last post by  gearhead4 
#1 ·
Don't believe I've seen this on the forum yet. Posted on the Subaru Tech site today - Subaru Technical Information System


WTB-63 Service Campaign – Electronic Parking Brake Reprogramming


Subaru of America, Inc. (Subaru) is initiating a service campaign for all 2015 model year Legacy and Outback vehicles. Subaru has determined that vehicles affected by this Service Program require reprogramming of the Electronic Parking Brake (EPB) system. The EPB system is designed such that the parking brake will apply upon initial activation and re-apply approximately 150 seconds (2 ½ minutes) after initial activation. Due to improper software programing of the EPB system, if an affected vehicle’s ignition switch is turned to the “ON” position at the same time the parking brake is re-applying, electric current will be provided continuously to the left rear EPB motor, eventually causing the motor to seize and prevent release of the parking brake. Should the left EPB motor seize, it will be necessary to replace the EPB Motor Gear Unit- EPB LH.
 
#3 ·
I knew there was a reason I never have tried the parking brake.

Guess they will take care of it when I get my 12 month oil change in a couple of months.
 
#6 ·
Due to improper software programing of the EPB system, if an affected vehicle’s ignition switch is turned to the “ON” position at precisely the same time the parking brake is re-applying, electric current will be provided continuously to the left rear EPB motor, eventually causing the motor to seize and prevent release of the parking brake.
There was a word missing in what you posted versus what we saw. (And I never post anything first, in case anyone was wondering - this stuff is still confidential until you guys mention it as far as I'm concerned.)

In actually reading the wording of this, though, this sounds like something that's probably nearly impossible to actually do, and is again a case of Subaru figuring out that something COULD happen, so we're going to be pro-active and take measures before it DOES happen.
 
#8 ·
My post was a "cut and paste" from the Subaru Tech site so there must be more than one version written by Subaru. But I agree it must be hard to do as there have been no reports of this happening.


 
#10 ·
I like the term e-brake. Emergency brake=hand brake. Manual. That way you can use it to "correct". Or just powerslide through corners "Bandit Style". That weird little button, by the hood opener, that excretes the little electrical whine...

I knew that was bad idea. It's of little use, except as a parking lock...meh, and that's no fun.
 
#11 ·
It's indeed only a parking brake.
I preferred how it behaved on the 4th generation compared to the way it behaves on the 5th generation.

On the 4th gen, it would beep a second or two before engaging. On the 5th generation, it engages right away, regardless of speed ... Combine that to the fact that, On 2015-2016 it's located in the console by the shifter, makes for scary possible scenarios ...
 
#13 ·
Page 7-46 in the Owners Manual. Emergency Brake. "If the foot brake has a malfunction, you can stop the vehicle by pulling the parking brake switch continuously."

The reason I heard it was moved to the center console was in the event the driver has a medical event, the passenger can still stop the car. And it's there now truly only for emergency events - not for power slides.
 
#15 ·
I got the notice in today's mail. I have a couple of minor things I want looked at, anyway, so I'll schedule a visit.

And, yeah, it seems pretty unlikely to happen, but it it ever did happen, it could be very inconvenient for the driver and passenger(s) - the car could not be driven - and expensive to repair for someone (tow and replace left rear EPB motor; expensive for whom depends on whether it's under warranty or otherwise).
 
#16 ·
I got that letter too. I hope they'll be able to fix this in 4-5 months when I go for my next oil change. I just had the oil changed recently and I don't feel like wasting 2-3 hours on a Saturday just for the recall.
 
#17 ·
I had an oil change and tire rotation done this past Tuesday. I did not know about the recall at the time. The service adviser informed me of it after he punched in my VIN. They performed the recall along with the other service and I was out of there in 1 hour. I got the letter for the recall yesterday!
 
#19 ·
The recall letter is pretty self explanatory (if read twice). After applying the electronic parking brake, the system will wait 150 seconds and reactivate it as some kind of safety measure (I think those are the words they used).

If, at the moment of reactivation, you turn the key to the 'on' position, power will be continuously supplied to the left/rear parking brake motor (a short I suppose). The motor will keep running until it burns out. It would then need to be replaced and since it is impossible to release the brake at this point, the vehicle will obviously need to be towed.

So they say to either avoid turning the key to the 'on' position at the 150 second mark after applying the parking brake or maybe not using the brake at all would be best if you are unsure. The recall is to reprogram the system.

Andy
 
#20 ·
Thank you Andy! I got the letter yesterday and thought I was reading it wrong because this sounds pretty impossible to do. But I could see it happening if you parked somewhere and then decided to change parking places because you see a better spot. We have all done it, you restart your car to move it and if at exactly 2.5 minutes you do so, you could smoke the EPB motor. Not good.
 
#21 ·
Julie, I agree. I can see it easily happening that way as well. I'll bet I came perilously close to doing this just a couple of days before getting the letter. I had spilled some oil into the battery tray while filling with a 5 quart jug (I'll never use that again). I disconnected the battery to lift and clean under it.

After reconnecting the battery, I had to reset and test several things (windows, brake, etc.) I had set the brake, released it, turned the key to 'on' and even started it a couple of times, just to make sure everything was working. Who knows how close I came to causing a problem.

Andy
 
#23 ·
Subaru e-brake is worse than useless.

:Carl,
When you stated " this sounds like something that's probably nearly impossible to actually do".
I felt the same way, so ignored the recall -until it actually happened to me. My Outback was immobilized by this glitch.
The circumstances that caused the lock-up were quite different.
I did not set the "e-brake". (Like others, I feel it's a very bad idea. Almost useless.)
I started the engine, and did not notice the "Brake" indicator glowing before putting the gearshift selector into Reverse. The Outback would not move. Then I noticed the Brake indicator and tried to release it. It would not release.
I then repeated the cycle of restarting the engine and trying to release the e-brake. No go.
I tried disconnecting the battery and reconnecting the battery. No effect, The e=brake remained locked. Then I unplugged the e-brake actuators at both rear wheels. This made it even worse. The brakes were locked and there was an additional warning light glowing on the instrument cluster.
After 30 minutes of struggling, I called the Subaru Roadside Assistance hotline. The agents on the phone said he could not provide any technical advice. All he could do is call a tow truck to tow the Outback to the dealer. This was at 6:00 PM on May 25. The service department would not be open for another 2 days -because of the Memorial Day holiday.
The next step was to connect my OBD2 diagnostic tool to se if it saw any problems. It found no trouble codes, but I erased all codes anyway. The e-brake continued to be locked.

In desperation, I began randomly cycling through every possible combination of start up procedures. Starting/restarting the engine. Moving the gearshift lever to all possible positions. Alternating between pressing the brake pedal while starting, and not pressing the brake pedal while starting.
Ultimately, I hit upon a combination that cause the e-brake to disengage by itself - without touching the switch. I can't tell you exactly what worked.
Today I made an appointment to have the the e-brake system reprogrammed by the Subaru service department.
My preference is to have the e-brake system permanently disabled. It is worse than useless!!!
Give an old fashion hand brake lever anytime!
If someone knows where I can get a conversion kit, please let me know!!
 
#24 ·
What Subaru needs to do is admit this whole EPB (electronic parking brake) is the worst idea that auto manufacturers (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Ford, Hyudai, etc) has had in this century thus far... and probably last century as well. Then, retrofit all such affected vehicles with a manual parking brake as has been the case for over 100 yrs. I have been driving over 50 years, not one problem with a manual parking brake. First EPB, the **** thing doesn't work.... and is a safety hazard. I have gone to using chocks for the parking brake; and a sign on the interior that says: "Do not park on hills".
 

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#26 ·
This is not about old dogs not being able to adapt.
The e parking brake is an ill conceived idea -even if it operates as designed.

In the older generation Outbacks, the "emergency brake" could actually be used to stop the vehicle from rolling in an emergency. It also served as a parking brake. And, yes, you could give the lever a yank in the middle of a turn to invoke oversteer. So it performed at least these 3 functions.

The e-brake can be used to prevent rolling and take stress off the Park pawl in the transmission. End of story. That is all the e-brake is good for. Can it stop the vehicle in an emergency. No!
Last winter, I let my 2015 Outback sit for 6 weeks. This caused the battery to discharge almost completely. There was just enough juice to allow me to place the transmission selector into neutral, so I could roll the Outback out of the garage for better access to the battery for jump starting. The vehicle started rolling out of the garage and down the driveway. I stepped on the service brake to stop the rolling, but then I couldn't move the gear selector back into park, because there was not enough power in the battery to release the transmission lever interlock. And - you guessed it- I could not set the e-brake because there was no power to activate it!.
So I had to sit there and stand on the service brake as I quickly flipped through the owners manual to find out how to manually override the gearshift interlock. There is a little hole under the rubber mat in the dashboard storage box that allows you to release the interlock using some kind of stylus. (A stick pen did the trick).

The only advantages to the e-brake is it frees up a little space next to the drivers seat, and eliminates a cable under the floor pan.

Those minor advantages don't make up for the troubles the electronic brake has caused me.

It's a bad idea, even if it was designed better.
 
#28 ·
The e-brake can be used to prevent rolling and take stress off the Park pawl in the transmission. End of story. That is all the e-brake is good for. Can it stop the vehicle in an emergency. No!
Good design dictates that one consider every conceivable situation, and assure that in all of these, the default state in the case of a component failure is the most safe. Batteries do run down; that should have been considered. And if you can't reasonably assure the safest state will be attained, then you provide an easy manual override - and by that I mean "one that doesn't make you read the manual". It should be intuitive.

Subaru really fell down on this one. But they have lots of company - the industry as a whole has a lot to learn.
 
#27 ·
First off you can use the ebrake in emergency. It is your OM but here is an old site

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4368530

Also you can manually disconnect the ebrake when engaged also in your OM and a pain to get to which you already learned.

For all those reason I keep a Deep Cycle battery in the garage plus two jumper start chargers and because I am paranoid each vehicle has their own lithium charger and jumper cables.
The Audis were notorious.
 
#30 ·
In this case, the safest state is to have the E-brake applied if the battery is dead or dying - that would avoid the dilemma of sitting on a slope in neutral and having to hold the brake pedal down because you can't apply the E-brake and can't move the gear selector. It also is a situation the driver would have to resolve anyway before driving it. But there are also problems with it being applied and not being able to take it off (stuck in a tight garage where it's difficult to open the hood and jumper the battery). Thus, a backup or a manual override is called for, and the best design approach would be to just have a second small battery that is protected from being discharged by the main circuit. It could also be a small manual actuator that is labeled "E-brake override", or similar - IOW, something that a driver could understand without going to the manual.

Toyota's mess-up on the Prius accelerator is my classic example of bad design. Yes, the accelerator floor clearance wasn't adequate, and yes, drivers messed up when they used thick floor mats. But the bad part of the design was the shutdown procedure on the pushbutton start Prius while underway - the way out of a stuck accelerator situation was for the driver to press and hold the Power button for 5 seconds. Toyota's reasoning? "Everyone knows how this works because it's how you force a shutdown on a PC." Trouble is, everyone didn't, and furthermore in a panic it's not intuitive. The 110 MPH runaway they finally managed to get stopped in Dallas with a police car in front braking had the policeman talking to the driver on a cell phone, instructing them to push the "Power" button - which the driver did repeatedly. But the Prius SW ignored repeated short presses and only reset the 5 second timeout interval, the logic being that it must have been an accidental press. Yet, there could easily have been SW that reasoned "speed > 100 MPH, power button repeatedly pressed, driver probably wants the engine shut down". I'll bet there is now.
 
#35 ·
My first car was a 1971 Datsun 510. It had an "umbrella handle" type emergency brake, and I could easily modulate it by twisting the handle and gradually releasing the brakes.

While moving an emergency brake is indeed designed for emergency use only. But in an emergency, most drivers are in "panic mode" and may be temporarily unable to analyse a situation that is rapidly changing. A simple hand actuated lever is the best design for this purpose.
 
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