No you can't do what I do, I have AWD. A roadrage thread.

[Novablue]

And as long as were posting vids:
My favorite:
Seattle Drivers in Two Inches of Snow - YouTube

When trucks think they are invincible:

Seattle drivers! Dumb-dumbdumb-dumb DUMB!!!! - YouTube

Seattle drivers! Dumb-dumbdumb-dumb DUMB!!!! - YouTube

[Euchre]

So I've read the first post a few times.
If I've got this straight, regardless of the speed you (Novablue) were going, the guy in the Honda Accord was going faster, enough that the closing speed concerned you. He followed this by tailgating. He was as least as aware of the temperature as you were, knew it was dark, and didn't know the road.

Now, do you think if you had pulled over and let him by, he would've been going any slower when he came upon the treacherous corner?
Do you think if you had started slowing down earlier, and slowed more for the corner, he might not have struck you on the way to the guard rail?
If you had not been there at all, what was likely to have happened?

I see only one thing to feel 'wrong' about, and that's crossing the centerline to try to avoid a bad spot in the road. Maybe the corner is such that at night, you'd at least think you'd have to see oncoming headlights before they ever reached the corner. Regardless, that was the one behavior that's really most dangerous based on what you've told us.

The other driver got what they earned. They were probably lucky you were there impeding an even worse entry speed into a bad situation. The things they did wrong are easy to list:
Driving too fast, based on conditions and vehicle equipment ('basic rule').
Driving too fast, in the dark, on an unfamiliar road.
Impeding their ability to observe and predict road conditions by tailgating you.
Risking your safety by tailgating you, aggravated by the conditions.

As for the discussion of AWD and ice and such, you had the tires to make the most of your AWD, and the 'fishtail' you felt was probably more of a full drift. I got a slight drift about a week ago on a frost covered patch on a corner around here myself. (And curiously, I was being followed by a local in a 4WD truck that was tailgating - but was aware of this same corner and actually did back off. Was probably surprised I didn't fare worse in my 'crappy Chinese car'.) As long as you weren't panicking or trying to be Ken Block, your slightly aggressive speed probably wasn't all that bad to deal with.

Don't see how this would be 'road rage' on your part. Riding your rear is road rage, and you took a course of action which you knew you could execute successfully, and keep yourself as safe as possible from conditions and the other driver. You couldn't control the other driver, and its not your responsibility to do so, or to try to otherwise save them from themselves.

I wouldn't feel guilty about it for one second.

[statueim]

Originally Posted by Novablue

AWD is a tool like a wrench or a hammer. It needs to be used intelligently.

Fully agree tires make a bigger difference but I'm fairly sure the AWD helped keep everything in line as I had the Traction control off (you can't turn off stability control) and was using the gas to keep everything moving as it should.

I was using traction control as a general term (not just the way Subaru applies the term to their systems) in which stability control falls under since it attempts to maintain traction for your vehicle (it kicked on for you during your turn). I certainly agree with you, having 4 wheels attempting to use the traction they can find in an intelligent manner consistent with what the driver is trying to do is certainly better than 2 wheels attempting to use the traction available to them. Back wheels continuing to spin regardless of if you've lost traction on the front tires when you're trying to make a turn would only keep you moving faster in the wrong direction when you've lost control and that's the type of situation I was citing for four wheels spinning not always being safer or more predictable for the typical driver. A lot of the intelligence of the AWD tool that make it a very safe and predictable option for the average driver are the traction control systems. Not all AWD/4WD systems are created equal in this sense though unfortunately as most of us well know.

[Novablue]

Originally Posted by statueim

I was using traction control as a general term (not just the way Subaru applies the term to their systems) in which stability control falls under since it attempts to maintain traction for your vehicle (it kicked on for you during your turn). I certainly agree with you, having 4 wheels attempting to use the traction they can find in an intelligent manner consistent with what the driver is trying to do is certainly better than 2 wheels attempting to use the traction available to them. Back wheels continuing to spin regardless of if you've lost traction on the front tires when you're trying to make a turn would only keep you moving faster in the wrong direction when you've lost control and that's the type of situation I was citing for four wheels spinning not always being safer or more predictable for the typical driver. A lot of the intelligence of the AWD tool that make it a very safe and predictable option for the average driver are the traction control systems. Not all AWD/4WD systems are created equal in this sense though unfortunately as most of us well know.

Cool. Yep we agree then!

[Novablue]

Originally Posted by Euchre

So I've read the first post a few times.
If I've got this straight, regardless of the speed you (Novablue) were going, the guy in the Honda Accord was going faster, enough that the closing speed concerned you. He followed this by tailgating. He was as least as aware of the temperature as you were, knew it was dark, and didn't know the road.

Now, do you think if you had pulled over and let him by, he would've been going any slower when he came upon the treacherous corner?
Do you think if you had started slowing down earlier, and slowed more for the corner, he might not have struck you on the way to the guard rail?
If you had not been there at all, what was likely to have happened?

I see only one thing to feel 'wrong' about, and that's crossing the centerline to try to avoid a bad spot in the road. Maybe the corner is such that at night, you'd at least think you'd have to see oncoming headlights before they ever reached the corner. Regardless, that was the one behavior that's really most dangerous based on what you've told us.

The other driver got what they earned. They were probably lucky you were there impeding an even worse entry speed into a bad situation. The things they did wrong are easy to list:
Driving too fast, based on conditions and vehicle equipment ('basic rule').
Driving too fast, in the dark, on an unfamiliar road.
Impeding their ability to observe and predict road conditions by tailgating you.
Risking your safety by tailgating you, aggravated by the conditions.

As for the discussion of AWD and ice and such, you had the tires to make the most of your AWD, and the 'fishtail' you felt was probably more of a full drift. I got a slight drift about a week ago on a frost covered patch on a corner around here myself. (And curiously, I was being followed by a local in a 4WD truck that was tailgating - but was aware of this same corner and actually did back off. Was probably surprised I didn't fare worse in my 'crappy Chinese car'.) As long as you weren't panicking or trying to be Ken Block, your slightly aggressive speed probably wasn't all that bad to deal with.

Don't see how this would be 'road rage' on your part. Riding your rear is road rage, and you took a course of action which you knew you could execute successfully, and keep yourself as safe as possible from conditions and the other driver. You couldn't control the other driver, and its not your responsibility to do so, or to try to otherwise save them from themselves.

I wouldn't feel guilty about it for one second.

Thanks. Your right, it wasn't a blind corner. I knew no one was coming the other way. Still I suppose an observing cop may feel differently about that.

[AO River]

Originally Posted by imwjl

If you were pushing it on a public roadway in the presence of others you should feel bad and not do that.

We lost a family member because of the thoughtless driving of another. Yeah, the chances are not that high, but we know those chances exist painfully well. Trust me that the driver caught, first responders, medical staff, coroner and insurers all wish that moment of unsafe driving didn't happen if not exactly the same way we do.

If you want to push it do it in a sport where you may only hurt yourself, a simulator game or sanctioned racing.

I understand your POV based on your past experience (sorry about your family member), but in the case of the OP the thoughtless driving seemed to be on the tailgating car.

It's a big enough challenge to drive defensively on the roads and take care of yourself, let alone watch and warn the cars around you. Should it be done if possible (and safe to do so)? Sure, in a perfect world

[jogosub]

AO River ... where is your Avatar girl?

[AO River]

Originally Posted by jogosub

AO River ... where is your Avatar girl?

She left me haha, I assume some people might peruse the forum at work or in the living room around the family, so trying to keep it G rated!