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Need Advice How to Subaru Forester run it on ethanol

9K views 36 replies 14 participants last post by  m0squit0 
#1 ·
Hi,

In order to save some money on fuel, I'm planing to install the ethanol e85 kit on my 2004 Subaru Forester and run it on ethanol.
I want to purchase the e85 ethanol kit from this French manufacturer: ecofuelbox.com but I want to be sure which type of connectors should I order.

Can someone tell me what type of injector connectors I need ?


Regards,
david
 
#3 ·
e85 might not save you money, the mpg plummets due to the rich mixture required.
Check your "save money" math.
 
#4 ·
Yeah, was about to post this. This summer I rented a car that was e85-compatible. Once when I stopped for gas, I pulled up at an e85 pump without realizing it. Rather than moving the car, I just decided to try the e85.

The bill leaving the pump was a lot lower than I was used to, but the car got much worse MPG and range (as reported by the dashboard computer) afterwards.

I guess in the end it was a moneysaver for me, as I'd driven 400+ miles on gasoline and returned the car full of cheap e85. Next guy who rented it probably got a little shock...
 
#6 ·
Only redeeming advantage for e85 is it allows you to smugly think you are saving the planet.
 
#23 ·
Saving the planet? My foot. Most ethanol sold in the U.S. is corn based. It takes more than a gallon of gasoline to produce a gallon of corn based ethanol.

If you want to save money pay extra for the highest octane possible. That will deliver more torque/power resulting in better gas mileage and overall savings.
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
03LLBean, as a money saver, maybe you talk your Pop into converting the VW diesel to run on vegetable oil.

Image pulling on by the local restaurants, opening the hatch and dumping used vegetable oil into a bolted in tank,...and the raccoon and rats chasing you down the street. (raccoon is the plural ?)

maybe something like this:

Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems | Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems
 
#10 ·
Save even more put really big tires on the back and small ones up front so your always going downhill !!




.
 
#11 ·
Save even more put really big tires on the back and
small ones up front so your always going downhill !!
That's great for MPG, but very tough on brake pads.

 
#14 ·
#15 ·
I know ethanol has lower energy density. I just saw everyone saying there was no advantage and realized their had to be some advantage.
Sadly my HS has no auto shop class, but I took honors chemistry and I understand on a molecular level why ethanol is lower energy.
Remember, I didn't start this thread. I was just wondering if there was any merit to the the OP's idea.
About the vegetable oil TDI, I had that same thought when I was 13 and he bought it new. However that would have voided the warranty, which would have been quite costly by now.
 
#17 ·
maybe you should try rephrasing that, maybe something like "Brazil loves Flex Fuel"
below off that wiki page:

There are no longer any light vehicles in Brazil running on pure gasoline. Since 1976 the government made it mandatory to blend anhydrous ethanol with gasoline, fluctuating between 10% to 22%.[16] and requiring just a minor adjustment on regular gasoline engines. In 1993 the mandatory blend was fixed by law at 22% anhydrous ethanol (E22) by volume in the entire country, but with leeway to the Executive to set different percentages of ethanol within pre-established boundaries. In 2003 these limits were set at a minimum of 20% and a maximum of 25%.[17] Since July 1, 2007 the mandatory blend is 25% of anhydrous ethanol and 75% gasoline or E25 blend.[18] The lower limit was reduced to 18% in April 2011 due to recurring ethanol supply shortages and high prices that take place between harvest seasons.[19]

The Brazilian car manufacturing industry developed flexible-fuel vehicles that can run on any proportion of gasoline (E20-E25 blend) and hydrous ethanol (E100).[20] Introduced in the market in 2003, flex vehicles became a commercial success,[21] reaching a record 92.3% share of all new cars and light vehicle sales for 2009.[22] By December 2009 they represented 39% of Brazil's registered Otto cycle light motor vehicle fleet,[22] and the cumulative production of flex-fuel cars and light commercial vehicles reached the milestone of 10 million vehicles in March 2010,[23][24] and 15.3 million units by March 2012.[25] By mid-2010 there were 70 flex models available in the market manufactured from 11 major carmakers.[26] The success of "flex" vehicles, together with the mandatory E25 blend throughout the country, allowed ethanol fuel consumption in the country to achieve a 50% market share of the gasoline-powered fleet in February 2008.[27][28] In terms of energy equivalent, sugarcane ethanol represented 17.6% of the country's total energy consumption by the transport sector in 2008.[29]
 
#18 ·
Brazil's ethanol is different because it is sugarcane based. Ethanol production from sugarcane is orders of magnitude more efficient than the U.S. corn based ethanol production. Both are rife with debates concerning whether it is right to use food to power vehicles that could be used for human consumption. I'm not too keen on the whole idea. On the whole, I think ethanol is just a stopgap to keep oil reserves lasting a little longer. I think it will become increasingly less viable as time wears on. I'm usually wrong.though
 
#19 ·
From what I hear from people that have E85 capable car. The economics (for E85)work if you drive in town a lot. The opposite is true if you travek on hwy a lot.
Somehow, the MPG drop is NOt as severe in town vs hwy driving, Maybe because you are idling and going no where when in town most of the time.

This is based on avg E85 vs Gasoline price in the greater Chicago area.
 
#20 ·
e85 = 82000 btu per gallon
87 = 114000 btu per gallon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Do the math. 87 is always almost always cheaper and always gives you greater range. The exception to the 'cheap' scenario is when you are returning a flex fuel rental car with a full tank. The E85 will save you money and transfer the cost on to the next renter but you will still be the one responsible for the environmental damage that is the hallmark of ethanol use.

Every gallon of ethanol contributes to massive midwest topsoil loss and makes the dead zone in the Gulf that much bigger. A recent study found that the ethanol boom has caused equivalent loss of an 8 mile strip of crp across the state of Iowa - a strip which helped clean water, provided habitat for wildlife, and provided recreational areas for outdoorsmen and woman. Many ethanol plants actually use coal to cook the corn to make ethanol. Others use natual gas which is a little better but because of this and energy inputs during planting, harvesting, and tranporting ethanol actually has a higher CO2 footprint than normal gasoline. Many ethanol facilities in NW Iowa pump non replaceable water out of deep old water aquifers that are dropping in level potentially causing future Iowans to lose access to clean water.

In short Ethanol is an environmental catastrophe. To put my viewpoint in perspective we have a Prius and use LED lightbulbs because we are part of what some misplaced soles call the 'smug' crowd that wants to do our part to be conservative citizens in our use of natural resources and we want to save money on fuel.
 
#27 ·
e85 = 82000 btu per gallon
87 = 114000 btu per gallon

Gasoline gallon equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do the math. 87 is always almost always cheaper and always gives you greater range. The exception to the 'cheap' scenario is when you are returning a flex fuel rental car with a full tank. The E85 will save you money and transfer the cost on to the next renter but you will still be the one responsible for the environmental damage that is the hallmark of ethanol use.

Every gallon of ethanol contributes to massive midwest topsoil loss and makes the dead zone in the Gulf that much bigger. A recent study found that the ethanol boom has caused equivalent loss of an 8 mile strip of crp across the state of Iowa - a strip which helped clean water, provided habitat for wildlife, and provided recreational areas for outdoorsmen and woman. Many ethanol plants actually use coal to cook the corn to make ethanol. Others use natual gas which is a little better but because of this and energy inputs during planting, harvesting, and tranporting ethanol actually has a higher CO2 footprint than normal gasoline. Many ethanol facilities in NW Iowa pump non replaceable water out of deep old water aquifers that are dropping in level potentially causing future Iowans to lose access to clean water.

In short Ethanol is an environmental catastrophe. To put my viewpoint in perspective we have a Prius and use LED lightbulbs because we are part of what some misplaced soles call the 'smug' crowd that wants to do our part to be conservative citizens in our use of natural resources and we want to save money on fuel.
Invade Cuba and take over their sugar cane plantations! 2 decades Old Problem Solved!
 
#22 ·
Apparently it can also cause engine problems in flex fuel vehicles. My dad drives a 2012 F-150 for a work vehicle. 20000 miles. Recently its been having terrible bucking and stalling issues. One of the first questions they asked is if he was using e85. He isn't. I think he's glad he doesn't own the truck.
 
#34 ·
I have quite a bit of experience using biodiesel made from waste vegetable oil. That is the only way to use waste vegetable oil if you expect your engine to last like diesels are supposed to. If you run straight vegetable oil in your diesel you are trying to get the engine to burn a very long hydrocarbon molecule. What you end up with a large amount of unburned hydrocarbon which will eventually carbon up the engine to the point it will score the cylinder walls and cause the rings to stick tight in the grooves of the pistons. My son personally knows a couple of people that ruined perfectly good diesel engines trying to run straight cooking oil in them.

You can buy a biodiesel processor and make your own fuel from waste vegetable oil. After paying for the processor the cost of making your own biodiesel will be about $1.00 per gallon. This is because of the cost of the chemicals needed to process the waste cooking oil.

The major advantage of making your own fuel is of course the cost of the fuel. A side benefit is the engine burns much cleaner and the fuel system will stay clean. The biodiesel has a strong cleaning action on the fuel system. And it is a better lubricant for your injection pump than the low sulfur fuel you are forced to buy now.

The major disadvantage is of course the amount of time you have to spend collecting the oil and then processing it. There is also some danger from mixing hazardous chemicals if you don't take the time to fully learn what you need to do and why you need to do it a certain way. Another disadvantage is because the biodiesel is a strong cleaning agent when you first start using it you will need to change fuel filters often until all the crud from your fuel system is all gone. On older vehicles you will also see some leakage from the return lines until you replace them with the newer type designed for biodiesel.

I have run both my 98 Dodge Ram 2500 and my old 83 Mercedes 300D on biodiesel for several years with no ill effects at all except for changing the filters several times when I first started using my home-made biodiesel. My son also ran his trucks on home-made biodiesel for several years.
 
#35 ·
citfta:

That sounds fabulous! Eventually I'm going to pick up a diesel. Was hoping the Outback was available with a diesel engine but to no avail.

What kind of mileage are you getting in each of your cars?

A former client had a fleet of diesel VW Jettas, Jetta Wagons and Passats. The six-speed manuals were getting 64 MPG last we spoke.
 
#36 ·
Biodiesel just like ethanol has a lower energy density but not nearly as bad as ethanol. Straight biodiesel will lower your mileage about 5%. However that of course is more than offset by the other advantages. And it you want to mix biodiesel with regular diesel you can improve your mileage over regular diesel alone. A mixture of between 25% and 50% biodiesel to regular diesel will increase your mileage by about 10% over the regular diesel alone.

On my Dodge truck, a long bed extended cab 4x4, I have gotten as high as 20 mpg on the interstate running about 65 mph. And of course the 98 is before they really started working on trying to make diesel engines more efficient. On my Mercedes it is a large very heavy car and was built before they even thought about making diesels efficient. I got around 28 to 30 mpg on most trips running between 70 and 80 mph.

On the idea of using ethanol I think it is just another example of our politicians passing laws on things they obviously know nothing about. I think their idea of fixing a problem is to create 10 other ones so we forget about the first one.
 
#37 ·
I should have qualified my client's gas mileage. They operate in Minnesota where we have a mandated blend of biodiesel in all diesel sold. Prior to July 1, 2014 the blend rate mandated by the legislature was a minimum of 5%. Starting July 1 that rate jumped to 10%. I've not spoken with my old client since the change took place and cannot speak to differences in mileage.

Ethanol (mandated as 10% blend in all gasoline sold in the state), like biodiesel, has the strong support –*financial and political –*of the powerful agriculture lobbies and farmer-funded groups, especially here. Both are regularly misunderstood by consumers, who believe these fuels drive up fuel costs. Truth be told the oil is removed and the remaining materials are still used for feed. In the case of corn the material, known as DDG (Dried distiller's grains), we even export for livestock feed.
 
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