I'll Never Own a Subaru Again

[scoobydoo2]

Originally Posted by OBnube

What!! You mean I just paid over $30k for my OB and now you tell me I have to maintain it?? What a gyp. I obviously did not do enough research.

What? You didn't get the self maintenance option? What were you thinking? lol

[wburychka]

Originally Posted by mav52

That's nice and a great comment about the 2.5, but Is the 3.6 a better designed motor or is the big reason a lot of posters on here don't have a 3.6 is because the poor gas mileage of the 3.6. Such a simple question. When I drove the 2013 3.6 vs the 2.5 the 3.6 just seemed more refined in the performance area, quieter ( less engine noise)

The new Consumer Reports reliability poll is out. In this, they predict what a new model will do based on reader surveys of repair experience with current and recent models. In the list of "Most Reliable" for the classification "Wagons and Minivans", the 4 cylinder Outback is listed; the 6 is not. In the overall Brand listing, Subaru comes in fifth, behind Scion, Toyota, Lexus, and Mazda, and is followed by Honda, Acura, Audi, Infiniti, and Kia, rounding out the top ten. The article also lists the least reliable in the various classes.

Here is a link to the article:
New Car Reliability | Best & Worst Reliability - Consumer Reports

[vr4Legacy]

Originally Posted by mav52

That's nice and a great comment about the 2.5, but Is the 3.6 a better designed motor or is the big reason a lot of posters on here don't have a 3.6 is because the poor gas mileage of the 3.6. Such a simple question. When I drove the 2013 3.6 vs the 2.5 the 3.6 just seemed more refined in the performance area, quieter ( less engine noise)

I think the biggest reason is money. Period. Either MPG or upfront.

I was dead set on the 3.6 for my new car, as I was replacing a Legacy GT. But once I started pricing them, and actually test drove the 2.5 with the CVT, I realized it wasn't worth the extra $$ for what I will use the car for. Also the CVT is a dream in the 2.5. For me, reliability wasn't even a concern. Power was, and then price trumped power.

But again, I must be the odd ball that has had 3 2.5 engines with no issues...

[1stgenfarmboy]

My old 2000 H4 went 128k on stock HG's then i replaced the driver side and drove it to 189k before selling it.

i would say it was pretty reliable also.

[JCBERB]

Originally Posted by vr4Legacy

I think the biggest reason is money. Period. Either MPG or upfront.

I was dead set on the 3.6 for my new car, as I was replacing a Legacy GT. But once I started pricing them, and actually test drove the 2.5 with the CVT, I realized it wasn't worth the extra $$ for what I will use the car for. Also the CVT is a dream in the 2.5. For me, reliability wasn't even a concern. Power was, and then price trumped power.

But again, I must be the odd ball that has had 3 2.5 engines with no issues...

I have to agree with you, while I enjoyed the mileage from a four cylcinder I was craving a little more HP so I chose the six. No I can see that gas needle go down. I drove both engines and really do not like the CVT, had it in my last car and never got used to it.

[mav52]

Originally Posted by vr4Legacy

I think the biggest reason is money. Period. Either MPG or upfront.

I was dead set on the 3.6 for my new car, as I was replacing a Legacy GT. But once I started pricing them, and actually test drove the 2.5 with the CVT, I realized it wasn't worth the extra $$ for what I will use the car for. Also the CVT is a dream in the 2.5. For me, reliability wasn't even a concern. Power was, and then price trumped power.

But again, I must be the odd ball that has had 3 2.5 engines with no issues...

Thanks wburychka and vr4Legacy. I have been waiting for the 2013's and now it's motor decision time. The HG thing really smacked me between the eyes. I've owned a lot of cars/trucks/SUV's and I have never had to replace a HG. Regarding the Outback, I travel into the Smokey Mountains a lot to flyfish (hills) so had the torque thoughts in mind regarding the 4 cly 2.5 limited vs 6 cly. 3.6 limited and then you compare the mileage noted on the Subaru site. I can live with 26mpg for the 3.6 if that is a honest mpg.

[OutbackUFO]

Originally Posted by mav52

Thanks wburychka and vr4Legacy. I have been waiting for the 2013's and now it's motor decision time. The HG thing really smacked me between the eyes. I've owned a lot of cars/trucks/SUV's and I have never had to replace a HG. Regarding the Outback, I travel into the Smokey Mountains a lot to flyfish (hills) so had the torque thoughts in mind regarding the 4 cly 2.5 limited vs 6 cly. 3.6 limited and then you compare the mileage noted on the Subaru site. I can live with 26mpg for the 3.6 if that is a honest mpg.

For the last 40 K miles I have been getting 26.7 MPG average. That includes city/highway and towing my boat. I don't have an explanation for this but that has been my real world mileage for my 3.6 . On the highway I get 30 MPG with great regularity and often it is higher than that even.

A 2.5 will do better I'm sure, but the extra power of the 3.6 helps me for MY needs. Threads like 2.5 vs 3.6 are so moot since each of us has to decide what is best for you the owner, not other forum members.YMMV

[grossgary]

Originally Posted by wburychka

The new Consumer Reports reliability poll is out. In this, they predict what a new model will do based on reader surveys of repair experience with current and recent models.

consumer reports and other "lists" that try to report reliability aren't that helpful. folks that actually work on many vehicles over the course of many decades can verify that those lists are rather weak. good starting point for some folks but they are a very small step along the way in making a choice for vehicles if you want to actually buy the best that any manufacturer has to offer. folks with significant buying and mechanic experience can bypass those lists altogether and i now consider them pointless for buying Subarus but would start there for other manufacturers which i'm less familiar with. they do not hold any water on their own.

[grossgary]

Originally Posted by mav52

Thanks wburychka and vr4Legacy. I have been waiting for the 2013's and now it's motor decision time. The HG thing really smacked me between the eyes.

2013's have the new 2.5 liter with timing chain like the 6 cylinder. They also started installing better headgaskets on around 2010 model 2.5's...hopefully that carried over to 2013 models too in terms of the headgasket technology. But I haven't seen it confirmed yet. I would personally lean towards the H6 but would have no problems recommending the EJ25 either.

Originally Posted by mav52

I've owned a lot of cars/trucks/SUV's and I have never had to replace a HG.

Headgasket issues are prevalent for *every* manufacturer...but it certainly doesn't mean it's "common" to any one. the internet is a great tool for fermenting issues like this so it can seem exacerbated here.....search google and you'll find headgasket issues for all manufacturers.

the best purchasing advice is to research a specific engine, not a manufacturer.

Originally Posted by mav52

I can live with 26mpg for the 3.6 if that is a honest mpg.

You might find it hard to max the gas mileage out in the smokie mountains. I live in WV and the mountains bring the gas mileage down quick...particularly with my 6 cylinders, they seem harder hit. Maybe with careful driving that can be mitigated, I haven't tried. my H6 gets up to 27 but not usually in the mountains of WV.

[carteach]

grossgary;482396]2013's have the new 2.5 liter with timing chain like the 6 cylinder. They also started installing better headgaskets on around 2010 model 2.5's...hopefully that carried over to 2013 models too in terms of the headgasket technology. But I haven't seen it confirmed yet. I would personally lean towards the H6 but would have no problems recommending the EJ25 either.

Headgasket issues are prevalent for *every* manufacturer...but it certainly doesn't mean it's "common" to any one. the internet is a great tool for fermenting issues like this so it can seem exacerbated here.....search google and you'll find headgasket issues for all manufacturers.

Grossgary, I thought the 2013 engines were different from the 2012 engines. Is it that any changes would not particularly affect the head gasket situation?

The mechanic that I've gone to for years with my 1995 Legacy Wagon said that he's seen so many Subaru head gaskets come in for repair that he told me to put money away for that repair. I've also been told that every few years Subaru? or people, say the problem has been resolved, but it hasn't been. Isn't too early to see whether the 2010 cars have been having problems?

Thanks for your input.