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Help buying my second Subaru - advice?

27K views 174 replies 13 participants last post by  keithbeck 
#1 · (Edited)
Actually my last Subaru was a 1978, and I am looking to buy another. (Seattle area.)

I have pretty much owned older Mercedes through the years, but want to go back to Subaru.

My question is, what sort of advice would you give to someone who is looking for an older model, probably 2000-2004? (I have only about a $5k budget)

So far I have seen that the head gaskets and water pumps go bad, and it looks like worst-case is a valve job might be needed? Should I look for a car that has already had this done?
 
#2 ·
Actually my last Subaru was a 1978, and I am looking to buy another.

I have pretty much owned older Mercedes through the years, but want to go back to Subaru.

My question is, what sort of advice would you give to someone who is looking for an older model, probably 2000-2004?

So far I have seen that the head gaskets and water pumps go bad, and it looks like worst-case is a valve job might be needed? Should I look for a car that has already had this done?
Head gaskets on H4s in those years, but once they are fixed by a knowledgeable shop they stay fixed.

Water pumps last more then 180,000 miles some say,...and valves only go bad if someone lets a timing belt break on them, so like most cars then you might be looking for a replacement engine vs. tearing it down for a valve job. The maint. book says to change a timing belt only every 105,000 miles, but when I bought a H4 car I was happy it was done at 65,000 a the time of me purchasing it.

Interested in the H6 engines,....a lot more quality,
no timing belt as it has a chain, and no plague of weak head gaskets.


and 40 more HP and torque?

If you can find a H6 VDC car in those years then you got something that has the similar computerized stability control as a modern car.


Personally I have both of these cars made in 2002, and I like both of them....the only thing I wish they had was curtain airbags which did not appear until the 2005 model year,...although they have shoulder air bags and tested pretty great without the curtains.

2005-2009 cars are obviously more expensive in the used market, but yet another quantum leap in design.

Subarus are for the most part pretty safe to buy in the used market vs. say a VW/Audi, BMW, or a Mercedes,...although any of them could have had a abusive previous owner, there is less to watch out for.

If you see a car with a internet ad that you are going to look at you can even post it up on this forum for experienced owners to critique for you.

Oh and no need to double post, if you were going to, mods get grumpy.
 
#3 ·
Hmm. You are looking at rather old cars. The H6 Outbacks would be about the only reasonable choice from that period, providing the vehicle is not too rusty.

What is your budget? Could you go 2006+?

How do you intend to use the car?

Recently, Tribeca prices came down, almost crashing as the model was discontinued.

Except for niche models (H6 VDC Outbacks and FXTs), the Tribeca was by far the best utility Subaru until its technologies were adopted across the board starting around 2008.
 
#4 ·
saw your 3rd post,....how many mpg does that big Benz get,...I guess it is not a happy frugal Diesel?

and this is a world wide board. So maybe someone in pago pago will see it and want to trade their 2004 VDC outback H6 wagon with 40,000 loved miles on it.,....and have zero way to get your Mercedes.


A location like a "in this state or province helps" I am in upstate NY. 27 degrees F and getting another set of studded snow tires.
 
#5 ·
Oh well, eegleeye beat me to this, no surprise there :)

I think our two posts more or less cover the ground, given the broadly phrased question.
 
#7 ·
Hey MiddleAge, I will trade you all my subarus for all your subarus.

I am sure once they reach the happy Phoenix >:) valley they will stop rusting.
 
#6 ·
Oh my Arizona buddy thinks a Forest turbo is worth while.

Turbo Foresters and Turbo Outbacks are for people looking for more room than the WRX turbo they already have. However they suck premium gas more then the similarly powered H6 engine, ....and they break down unexpectedly even if taken care of. = $3000 to $8000 if the turbo breaks or blows through the engine at any time.:surprise:

But turbo people are willing to absorb such costs, and usually fix them at home.
...or along side the road, or supermarket parking lot.
 
#8 ·
The water pumps never fail. I still routinely replace them with timing belts simply because it's easy and wise, but failure is nearly unheard of.

Late 90's Impreza OBS or legacy's with the 2.2 are the most reliable platform Subaru has made in decades. If you're in a rust free area and okay with older cars - they'd actually be more reliable and cheaper/easier to maintain than the 00-04 models.

Best option in my opinion is to find one that already had a failing headgasket but hasn't overheated due to it - and have it repaired your way.

Buying one already repaired is a little uneasy as most places, even Subaru, does a sub-par job.

Resurface the heads and use Six Star or MLS Subaru headgaskets. If you can verify that was done - then you're golden, but usually it's not done that way.

Cars now are interference and have timing belts for the 4 cylinders in the year range you're looking at. A broken belt means bent valves most of the time on those. That means for reliability/longevity/protection you'll want a complete timing belt kit installed - belt, tensioner, pulleys.
 
#16 ·
$5500 -$6000 the rebuilt title should lower the price by that much at least,...no meantion of head gaskets or maint.


here is a regular maint. schedule. ...one of the benefits to staying away from dealers and buying from a private party is maint. records. (you might consider printing out the portions in relation to 2000-2009 cars, as it gets confusing when actually comparing real paper records to what should have been done).


Subaru maintenance schedules and new car break-in period- 2000 through 2009, links for 2010, 2011...
 
#14 ·
Thanks - this is helpful, and I understand MOST of it. ;)

The Impreza - those are the sportier/shorter ones, right? I MIGHT go that route, but I prefer the larger space. (Does it get better gas mileage?)

And I forgot - no - the Mercedes is NOT a diesel - I miss my diesel. :(
 
#15 ·
Impreza....likes to hippity hop over the bumps

whereas the outback just swallows them and asks for more in a pleasant spongy way, and you are use to the big Benz way of life already.

...you can look at the MPG numbers,...but typically Imprezas are not cross shopped with outbacks.
 
#18 ·
Foresters:

I forgot,...and others. Foresters are a love it or hate it situation. so sit in one and find out, Seats and driving position are odd vs. other cars,...along with the tall glass makes them unique....hence why some people love them.

...2000-2004ish ones lean a whole lot in turns.
the revised one around 2005? got multi-link rear ends like outbacks had from 2000.

Outbacks also have more square footage of load floor vs. the Forester which is a bit taller inside. In the real world the outback is usually found to be WAY more useful. It can still swallow a kitchen full size refidgerator, or a cloths washer.

Just imagine what you will be able to pick up vs. tying the trunk shut on the Benz.

 
#21 ·
Don't love the way this one looks, and the miles are HIGH! But the price is less than half what the other one is - ) could go this route.

2001 Subaru Outback Limited H6-3.0, auto, VDC AWD!!!

Or this one had the head gaskets done already:

2003 Subaru Outback AWD Original Owners Very Clean Must See Pics
both these got a mountain of miles. both buyers think they have something unique.

the 01. priced a lot too high,...all there though.
one of our members "SoupCommander" runs his personal 2002 VDC wagon all over the US, I think he said recently with 423,000 miles on it. (works for a wind turbine trucking company).

the price on the 2003 is more reasonable. ...however did you notice it is a cloth seat base edition, with a manual trans. (has heated seats though). buyer could stick to his guns holding out for a european that flatly insists on a manual and will pay handily to get it.


each would be worth going for a test drive in if convenient for you, just to get a feel for the cars. but you probably should not buy until you have physically looked at some more.

I think you could find some cheaper if you expanded the search area, maybe to northern california, if you had some friends or family to visit there.
 
#22 ·
Thank you Eagleeye! I am pretty stuck to this area.

Thinking about going to a dealership just to try some out. I think I have a little better idea of what to look for, as well as what to possibly avoid.

I am leaning a little bit more towards an automatic transmission, but not solid on that, and am not solid on the leather seats, although I have pets and am used to the leather (in all my cars).

Dang - 423k mi...
 
#24 ·
Moron at a dealer mistakenly calling a Horizontally Opposed 4 cylinder a Inline 4.
More often they mistakenly type things like V6 instead of the correct H6.

Subaru and Porsche. Horizontally Opposed = Boxer Engines.




Inline 4, very typical



and a V6



and if one is extra nerdy, a Mazda RX7 style Wankel Rotary,...(gives 6 cylinder power, but no better on gasoline,...makes for a great high rev race car though).

 
#27 ·
I keep coming back to this one:

2002 Subaru Outback VDC, Automatic, very nice, 99k

I think I might go take a look at it. And for one, ask him if he can get close to that price on Edmunds, because I cannot.

I think it might be a nice car, but no head gasket replacement. What are the signs that you would look for on a car like this? - other than overheating, which would be hard to identify if the car was cold and you just drove it a few miles. Or short of taking it to a mechanic and spending the $150 to have it looked over.

He doesn't want my Mercedes, but wants me to bring it so he can look at it. Wondering if he is someone who deals cars on a part-time basis...
 
#28 ·
I keep coming back to this one:

2002 Subaru Outback VDC, Automatic, very nice, 99k

I think I might go take a look at it. And for one, ask him if he can get close to that price on Edmunds, because I cannot.

I think it might be a nice car, but no head gasket replacement. What are the signs that you would look for on a car like this? - other than overheating, which would be hard to identify if the car was cold and you just drove it a few miles. Or short of taking it to a mechanic and spending the $150 to have it looked over.

He doesn't want my Mercedes, but wants me to bring it so he can look at it. Wondering if he is someone who deals cars on a part-time basis...
Nope its just a guy, 2 plates. Dealers would have one plate or none in the pics, and choose a neighborhood to shoot in. (sometimes here called "curbstoners", as they choose pretty curbs to pose the car next to).

Price your Benz between Edmunds and KBB and see what you get.

Typically trading only complicates the deal. This guy has a VDC, and a GMC Envoy, and should only be interested in a 2wd Benz if he thinks he can double his money by reselling it.
Actually any person actively commuting should be interested in 2 cars, one main and one spare, which you might take one day a week just to exercise it.
So you might keep it, at least you know its history, vs. a unknown of equal value.

Mechanics:

You could have a independent mechanic who is experienced in subarus look at it. (Classically this it the same shop that would work on a 1991 Benz, if they did not stick to just German things,...but whereever you find 2 or 3 running subaru cars outside is the place). Dealers in their shops, merely verify the car has 4 tires and charge you $120, and have not found even the basic things a person buying the car would want to know.

...although a dealer mechanic on his lunch hour or after work might be a good asset to swing by and look at it (well daylight is ideal, so maybe on a weekend).

Headgaskets on a H6 car? A mechanic would use a mirror on a stick to inspect under the engine, ...Valve cover gaskets are typical to be leaking at some point in time on this engine, but it is a quick fix. Not a big deal, but makes for confusion, as the valve cover gaskets can leak some engine oil down onto the head gaskets. (...all that can dry into a goo, and a experienced eye for subaru is needed, vs. a inexperienced one being a alarmist).
 
#30 ·
I posted this before, but I am going to look at it tomorrow. Any words of caution?

I am not entirely sure I want the VDC after looking at it, but this car is loaded and with very low miles. (VDC is an AWD, right?)

2002 Subaru Outback VDC, Automatic, very nice, 99k

And... how much do the head gaskets run - I don't think they have been done on this car. I heard they are only about $150-$200. Is that way off base?
 
#33 ·
Jess, you know you got 3 different cars here. with 3 differnt prices.



2000 Limited H4: says head gaskets done, question you want copies of receipts. (heads machined? brand and or model number of head gaskets used,...and is actually part of a larger of gaskets used at the time of the work). How many miles,...and why are they not telling that basic detail (makes me think it has more than 180,000 miles, and that is why they are stressing maintained vs. telling the miles)

2002 VDC. H4 engines had them as a systemic problem. Head gaskets are not a problem with any H6 engine. any more then any other make of car on the road. Now this car or any car could have overheated its way to head gaskets, precipitating a NEED to sell it. It is just another reason to have cars inspected by a someone who knows subarus. ....head gaskets if they need to be done on this engine, usually just end in going down to the junk yard and getting a good running low miles one out of a car that was rear ended. as it is cheaper, to just get a good used one. (big engine, lots of parts, makes for a long long long complex head gasket job in hours).

the 2008: Head gaskets may need to be done sometime in your ownership. the body is lighter then the gen2 cars,

lots of changes in 2008, this one is a base model known as the "2.5i" below,...cloth seats.
2008 Subaru Outback research site: prices, options, what's new this year, colors, specs, photos and more
 
#40 ·
If you think of it this way, ...they are all old cars.

Subaru has sold so many 2010-2014, and 2015 outbacks I would think they amass half the outbacks on the road in the US.

vs. the 1996-2009 ones.

all get divided by generation, which has vast updates in the body. (although the 1990 legacy has plenty of DNA in the 2009).

the way things are: 2000 cheap, but no miles listed?
2002 VDC most similar to your current Benz. safe / and the best car made that year.

2008, highly desirable to many people as it is one of the last of the lighter sporty bodies before the 2010 big ones. desire = high price.

actually I would hope each seller would take less. (see Life of Brian beard post).

and there are more fish in the sea around Seattle, all maybe good choices in their own right for you.

...but you got to get someone to look at them vs. plunking your money down and being unhappy. even a round of tires and brakes on a new to you used car can cost a extra $1000 of undisclosed costs. But at least if someone tells you, you can get the car for less and pick your own good tires and good brake pads / rotors.
 
#37 ·
I take i that it is probably (understandably) annoying that new people com on here all the time and ask which car YOU would pick. I apologize if that is the case, but you have been immeasurably helpful with your input. :)

Like the university physics class I am in right now - I am just winging' it. So thank you.
 
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