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Subaru 2.5XT Limited - Check Engine ( I have the Codes )

23K views 113 replies 13 participants last post by  NordicWookie 
#1 ·
Hi again,
s
It seemed like just yesterday I was on here asking about snow tires, which I did get and their awesome. As soon as I decided to drive to the family's for Christmas 40 miles out from my destination I get a check engine (Solid) and my cruise control light (flashing) I know now why the light was flashing and proceeded to drive to my mothers. When I got to my destination my friend with his code checking device plugged in and this is what I got:

-P0011
-P0021

"Timing over advance systems bank 1 & 2, camshaft position sensors."

Oh and the OTHER great news to this.. I checked the Oil in a good light and YUP.. Metal Shavings. Not heavy but they're in the oil. I had this weird noise as I was proceeding to finish my drive.. a winding, grinding sound that only was present ( for the most part ) when I stepped on the gas.

The car has 80,000 miles exactly and as I was going slower in town I rolled the windows down and listened to the noise. It almost sounds like chains be drug below the car and a definite part failure.. somewhere. NOW, when I turn the car on right away there is a shake to the car that happens right away and I can hear a slight "tinging" as the car Idles.

Boys and Girls.. I'm 200 Miles from my house, my job and at least made it safely to my moms. I am happy about that, but I am NOT happy about what may lie ahead. I can't get in anywhere until Monday, I'm from a small town that doesn't have a Subaru dealership anywhere near it... I'm at a loss and am looking for any advice you may be able to give me.
Thanks SO MUCH for reading this post and I'll be admittedly watching this post for the next 24 hours until I fall asleep.

Thanks again,

-Wookie
 
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#2 ·
Get some sleep. Not gonna sugar coat it.

Your turbo just dusted your engine. Or, that's what it sounds like. If its not the turbo that started it, it was something within the block. Either way, the metal shavings are not a good sign and an indication of damage. The grinding noise on acceleration is another indication.

Post up where you are and maybe someone has an idea for you that may help you out.
 
#32 ·
Just started reading this thread. grossgary wins the cigar on price. You might take it to a friendly independent guy, as swapping such things is regular work for those friendly to subaru.


Sad business turbos, why I am happy with the normal aspiration of a big 3.0 h6 and a nice h4. No spastic grin making acceleration but oh well, the h6 has enough stomp.

Wook, you might look into a regular aspirated 2.5 replacement, (from the gen 3 vintage after the Head Gasket Problems). Maybe with a matching trans etc.

So it won't be a racecar, it will be adequate and never do this again.
 
#6 ·
Hey gang,

This is what I thought too. I talked to a friend of mine that has an auto shop here in town and a buddy at the other shop has been working on Subaru's for years as well as owns 4 of them for him and his family. Monday we find out the damage I guess. Thanks guys for the input and advice! Mom has AAA towing so that is nice at least if I need to bring it somewhere.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas.
 
#7 ·
Sure does sound like an oil supply/flow failure that cascaded to a turbo failure. Eventually enough of an oil problem that the AVCS complained.

Was the oil level good?

If it were my car I think I'd be pulling the banjo bolt filters for inspection, dropping the oil pan and popping the turbo downpipe to check shaft play. I think you'll find carnage in one or more of those four places. The pattern will help indicate what went first and inform you as to how much is salvageable.
 
#8 ·
My car has had (2) new turbos and (1) shortblock/head replacement. I am the second owner. The 2nd turbo and shortblock where under a warranty right after I bought it. So this is a shot of the intake side of my current turbo. It is new, I was told it was and charged for it. It has 8K on it. I can't figure out what caused this other than some mfg defect. OR sucking something "significant" in through the airbox. But what, there isn't anyway for anything large to enter past the air filter.

I had checked mine for play on the intake side. No movement from what I could tell. But Rasterman made me think I should drop the exhaust side as well and check there as well.
 

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#56 ·
if you are refering to the fair chunk removed from the bolt that holds the compressor on. This is in fact intentionally removed as part of the balancing procedure to balance the compressor and turbine.

Take a look at photos of any garret gt2871rs in google images and 99% of the time there is a notch taken from the turbine (rear) nut.

or for example on this huge random turbo linked below you can see its brand new however it has a slight notch on the compressor nut. http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/...4_turbocharger_boost_basics_vintage_ford_.jpg

a dead / dying turbo in my experience will usually produce a crap load of exhaust oil smoke from oil seeping past the seals and/or the corners of the compressor fins will have small (1+mm) chips and visible wear on the inside of the housing
 
#12 ·
Hey all,

Thanks again for the continued help. I've been using a synthetic oil from my local garage. I always ask for the high end synthetic. I never have run the car over the listed mileage that was posted. I've only had the car 5 months. Bought it with 75k and in mint condition.

I will bring it in tomorrow. The garage is about a mile from where the car is. I'm guessing I shouldn't drive it? Thanks also for the advice to How to tow!

I'm just hoping I can repair it and still get good money for a trade in?!

If the engine is toast, is it worth spending the money on a new engine versus a rebuilt?
Can you buy new engines... I'm getting a bit angry due to this car costing me so much and repeatedly being told it's a great vehicle. 15k is what I spent in July for this friggin car...

Thanks again!
 
#14 ·
Hey all,

Thanks again for the continued help. I've been using a synthetic oil from my local garage. I always ask for the high end synthetic. I never have run the car over the listed mileage that was posted. I've only had the car 5 months. Bought it with 75k and in mint condition.

I will bring it in tomorrow. The garage is about a mile from where the car is. I'm guessing I shouldn't drive it? Thanks also for the advice to How to tow!

I'm just hoping I can repair it and still get good money for a trade in?!

If the engine is toast, is it worth spending the money on a new engine versus a rebuilt?

Can you buy new engines... I'm getting a bit angry due to this car costing me so much and repeatedly being told it's a great vehicle. 15k is what I spent in July for this friggin car...

Thanks again!
Well, I paid 16K for mine, although I didn't pay for the turbo and rebuild. I have spent a ton on suspension and steering replacements/upgrades doue to wear or inadequate design. Still love the car, but I had wanted a 2014 4-Runner, thought 35K was to much. Probably have 24K in the XT now, it'd be 30K if I had to pay for the motor too.

Still love my car...it is a $$$ pit though.
 
#16 ·
LegacyGT has what I consider to be an excellent write-up for people facing potential turbo failure.

NordicWookie- I recommend reading it just to get the background education.

You've reported symptoms that suggest your turbo's had it. Even if this is true, it's entirely possible for you to recover the rest of the engine with a careful decontamination. While any repair must be an unexpected expense, it is likely to be worth doing whether you plan to keep it or trade it.
 
#17 ·
Fella's,

Thanks much for your time in reading and continued replies! I just hope to at least not lose any trade it value so that I can at least get something newer. After I try and fix this beast ( After I hear what is actually wrong ) Do I lose trade in due to this repair? I don't see how adding newer components won't help a bit but at the same time it shows your car was damaged.. I could also just fix it up and keep it but if these are known, "Money Pits" then why continue to own one?

I will let everyone know what the diagnosis is come Monday and look forward to all the info that you guys have given me! If I can think of anything else I'll be sure to add it.

Thanks all... I guess I'm just preparing myself for the NEXT steps(s)
 
#19 ·
Do I lose trade in due to this repair? I don't see how adding newer components won't help a bit but at the same time it shows your car was damaged.. I could also just fix it up and keep it but if these are known, "Money Pits" then why continue to own one?
That one is a tossup depending on the buyer. Folks who don't know these cars may well be scared off.

Folks who do know these cars will immediately ask for documentation of the repair- something you still have the opportunity to influence. If it's known (and properly documented) that the repair was done right, that would serve to increase private resale value and probably trade-in as well.

As to whether the car is a moneypit or not... I've certainly noticed that my XT is costing me more than previous cars I've owned, but on the other hand I like it a lot more than those cars. I think I'm still getting my money's worth. We all have to make that calculation for ourselves.

I wish you luck!
 
#18 ·
I used $$$ pit as a term of affection in my case. I wanted a wolf wrapped in the sheep of a sleeper station wagon. Something no one notices, until they can't figure out how they got dusted. 1/2 of my money I spent was chasing very small issues, most drivers wouldn't notice. Yeah I had to replace some usual stuff.

But I own it because there isn't much out here ti fill my criteria. An Audi A4 Avant is not a sleeper. My XT is cheap in comparison.
 
#20 ·
Boys,

At the shop.. Codes being read and he's listening to the engine. Told him what everybody's thinking. I agree with you guys in the sense that I really like my Subbey and agree that it's a great ride and fun and comfortable! We'll see what the damage is. He had me rev the engine and hold it high to listen but it really wasn't making the noise as frequently. Either way it's in. Great timing though eh?!

Thanks again

Wookie
 
#22 ·
Guys,

Can't thank you all enough for the great reads, tips, heads up's, etc. We are towing it on a flatbed to the nearest Subaru dealership ( 40 Miles ) Called and talked to the guy and told him everything I could pertaining to how it happened, sounds, what I've done and what I know. So, he said he'll look at it pronto as soon as it arrives ( 1+ hours )

After listening to the motor, using all the tools and lights and you name it. The mechanic here in my town who's the Subaru guy told me... " I can't do this man.." He said if he would it would be a " I think so operation vs a I know.." I respected that a ton and told him we had top notch AAA coverage.

This is where I sit at. I'm hoping that because it's a certified Subaru place they'll know a bit more than my local shop. I was handed a print out from Subaru that showed and told of the filters inside the Bolts getting clogged. The mechanic here said in his opinion, the person before me most likely ran the car too long in between oil changes and other stuff. What I do know is that It's on it's way to the Subaru place. Some positive notes is that the mechanic didn't really see much if any metal shavings in the oil?! I grabbed my light and looked again.. we took the oil off the stick onto his fingers and he rubbed around and we shined the light and he said he really didn't see much. So maybe the Engine's not too horribly beat up eh?!

Thanks again and If you guys think I should know anything more of statements I should make or anything like that manner before the dealership works on it, I would appreciate it. Otherwise I'm gonna sit and wait to hear back.

Thanks much again!

Wookie
 
#23 ·
boxkita on LegacyGT had a post which, while not terribly precise, offers good generic advice:

Looking in the oil drain pan (the drained out oil)
silvery tint to the oil = check & clean or replace; turbo & ACVS oil feed lines, oil cooler (is what your oil filter spins on) & drop oil pan
a few specs of metal in the oil = check the oil pan, if same, check & clean or replace; turbo & ACVS oil feed lines, oil cooler (is what your oil filter spins on) & drop oil pan
it looks like metallic "dust" in the oil = pull the pan & full clean of everything, replace anything that carries oil
it looks like metallic "sand" in the oil = new short block, full clean of everything, replace anything that carries oil
it looks like metallic "gravel" in the oil = new engine

Looking in the bottom of the oil pan (after pulling it)
silvery tint to the oil = check & clean or replace; turbo & ACVS oil feed lines, oil cooler (is what your oil filter spins on) & drop oil pan
a few specs of metal in the oil = check the oil pan, if same, check & clean or replace; turbo & ACVS oil feed lines, oil cooler (is what your oil filter spins on) & drop oil pan
it looks like metallic "dust" in the oil = pull the pan & full clean of everything, replace anything that carries oil
it looks like metallic "sand" in the oil = new short block, full clean of everything, replace anything that carries oil
it looks like metallic "gravel" in the oil = new engine
the pan looks pristine (no oil) = new engine
It sounds like you're only finding the first fine grade of metal in your oil. You might consider pulling a sample for used oil analysis. They'll tell you what kind of metal it is, and some analyzers keep databases of what metals were used in which parts of a given engine. That way they can tell you whether you're looking at a powdered turbo bearing or a main bearing or something unrelated. Of course some cars use the same metal in more than one place, so it won't necessarily be that deterministic.
 
#25 ·
Zed,

I'm down with the wife's family ( Eau Claire WI ) I was in the Hastings area when this occurred. My mother lives in Lake City/Wabasha. The local tow truck took it to " Clements " Subaru in Rochester. I've never been there but had one of the local shop boys tell me his son was a mechanic there and they were real good. I called them and they told me they would call me once they had a chance to look at it.

That is all I know and I still haven't been contacted by them yet. I just hope that they go about this with the detail that all of you have talked about or had these pulled threads about. I'm thinking if they're a Subaru dealership aka the place to take a Subaru, they would know how to go about this without causing any further damage.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

-WOokie
 
#28 ·
So it's only the Bottom part of the engine and a new turbo? with what some new valves? This isn't even a "New Engine" or I guess I don't understand. I talked with my friend and he says just pay it and have a "New Engine" on your subbey and if you want to sell it after that you can ask almost 20K.

Or I can see what the dealership would accept as trade in value but I'm guessing it would be really low!?

So.. I'm taking a hit no matter what.. Which is will be better or worse?! Trade in for a newer vehicle... or pay the 8 Grand for this Certified repair with a 1yr/ no mileage warranty on the parts all put on a 6 yr old vehicle with 80,000 miles on the tranny ( Which shifts hard into second gear ) and bearings and wheels on this AWD vehicle.

Obviously if all this blew after only 80K ... how else was the car treated?! Oh boy...

As far as the price.. How the heck else am I going to be able to do it. I don't have a hoist or anyone in town that feels comfortable enough to do this work.

Also, The guys at the dealership have taken the car apart and what do I even owe them on labor so far?! I get that it's a dealership but I'm wondering which is the best way to go?

I don't know what the **** to do at this point but find a good IPA and try and enjoy the holidays.

Thanks guys again for all the help along the way! Much Appreciated.

These are the notes that I took from talking with the guy at the dealer.

$7200.00 including tax- new short block, new turbo, reuse cylinder heads.
- Warranty ( Turbo = 1yr no mileage limitation )(also block)
( a few days to fix ) ( 2+ weeks part )

Not estimated $ on - timing belt, water pump, etc. +600.00 -$800.00

$2800.00 new turbo and engine flush. no guarantee on getting all the oil out of engine.
 
#29 ·
If it were me I'd likely pay them to flush it, then measure the oil pressure to evaluate the condition of the bottom end before committing to a short block replacement.

Actually I'd go crack a moon man first. Broken down anywhere that sells New Glarus... Sigh. Some guys have all the luck.
 
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