Very cold, NO BRAKES

[Garth]

as I have stated before...my 01 does it warm and COLD....

[rcy]

Originally posted by Garth
as I have stated before...my 01 does it warm and COLD....

Maybe you just have a plain old defective check valve, or some other problem. A new hose is cheap, and will have a new check valve in it. I have a new one ordered and it cost $25 CDN. Since Subaru Canada royally reams us on prices up here compared to the U.S., you'll probably pay $12 or something.

Replacing it is simple. Have you tried this option?

[Garth]

no...I like others just wait a bit before i leave...I make sure the car's brakes work before I take off...lol....if your new one works tell us and i will get a new one....mine only does it first thing in the morning...weird....

[biking4life]

I experience the same thing on cold days. When I know it's going to get very cold overnight, after I shut the car off, I pump the brakes until there isn't any play left. This (I think) eliminates air or whatever in the lines to freeze so when I start the car up in the morning, one pump of the brakes before moving gets them back to normal.

[ring-tailed-lemur]

First post on the forum.

I have this exact same problem on a '02 LL Bean. It's my wife's daily driver so I've only experienced it a couple of times, but she says it's been happening every morning since it's gotten cold. It only needs to be in the teens to make it happen (not super cold like -10). We just bought the car over the summer so this is our first winter with it.

DAS, did you ever resolve your issue? What was it in the end?

I've read the thread about the power brake issue and it definitely could be that, although again, I haven't experienced it enough to assess whether there are NO BRAKES, or whether it just brakes really hard. They always come back within 30 seconds or so.

I'll be taking this into my mechanic in the next couple of weeks, but I thought I'd check in here for opinions since so many others seem to be experiencing the issue. Thanks in advance for any additional thoughts.

[DAS]

Nope. Still an issue. I had not experienced it in quite a while,then it happened again just yesterday. Parked at work all day. I started it up, left the parking lot and approached a stopsign at at t intersection. I was not gong too fast. I went to stop, and no brakes. I almost broadsided a dodge caravan. It was 16 degrees out. I don't ever remember it happening while this "warm" out. I have put 196,000 miles on the car, and it has been an issue since day one.
After this the brakes were fine. It is just that first use when it is cold out.

[ring-tailed-lemur]

Oh man, that sucks! Is it fair to say that you've tried to solve this to no avail? Should I even expect my mechanic to find something wrong? I really need to solve it because my wife drives our 2-year old son around in this car...

I saw that you're also in VT, so it's at least good news that you still have the car. I was slightly worried you were going to reply with, "Nope, we sold the car this past summer in Montpelier, and it was white with 55k".

Originally Posted by DAS

Nope. Still an issue. I had not experienced it in quite a while,then it happened again just yesterday. Parked at work all day. I started it up, left the parking lot and approached a stopsign at at t intersection. I was not gong too fast. I went to stop, and no brakes. I almost broadsided a dodge caravan. It was 16 degrees out. I don't ever remember it happening while this "warm" out. I have put 196,000 miles on the car, and it has been an issue since day one.
After this the brakes were fine. It is just that first use when it is cold out.

[wilsonhp]

It is water in the vacuum line from the manifold to the brake booster, freezing in the check valve.

You can remove the hose when warm, and flush thru with some WD-40 and clean the water out of there. Then re-install the hose and you should be good for a while until you get significant water in there again. Pay attention to which end goes where....

On the really cold days, I always pump my brakes a few times before moving into Drive, to ensure that the valve is free. If it is sticking, and I get the rock hard pedal, a few more pumps is enough to free up the valve and return normal brake function. I learned the trick the hard way, almost rolling thru a busy intersection because I didn't check first. Some times you really have to stand on it, but you can free it up thru pumping the pedal.

[ring-tailed-lemur]

OK, thank you!! Good to know. I will check that out and do the WD-40 thing. Give me a couple/few weeks and I'll report back with results.

Regarding the bit about "should be good for a while until you get significant water in there again", is there something else wrong given that water gets in there AT ALL? Or does that just happen with the Outbacks? Is there anything I can do to prevent water from getting in there again?

Originally Posted by wilsonhp

It is water in the vacuum line from the manifold to the brake booster, freezing in the check valve.

You can remove the hose when warm, and flush thru with some WD-40 and clean the water out of there. Then re-install the hose and you should be good for a while until you get significant water in there again. Pay attention to which end goes where....

On the really cold days, I always pump my brakes a few times before moving into Drive, to ensure that the valve is free. If it is sticking, and I get the rock hard pedal, a few more pumps is enough to free up the valve and return normal brake function. I learned the trick the hard way, almost rolling thru a busy intersection because I didn't check first. Some times you really have to stand on it, but you can free it up thru pumping the pedal.

[Saint J VT]

Sounds like a thorough bleed of the existing fluid may eliminate water in the system. Of course, any water in the brake fluid will freeze at the temp's you are describing. Seems as though fully-bleeding the entire system may eliminate the problem.