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-   -   Lubing the clutch pack (http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/19642-lubing-clutch-pack.html)

enzorows 07-29-2009 02:16 PM

Lubing the clutch pack
 
I have a sticky clutch pack in the AT of my '05 Forester. I have read the posts regarding this issue (which surprisingly appears to be quite common) and I have a couple of questions.

Am I correct in my understanding that the clutch pack is immersed in the ATF, not the differential oil?

If I add LSD additive to the ATF will that adversely effect other aspects of the tranny (ie shifting, torque conversion, etc)?

Isn't LSD additive typically added to gear oils, not ATF?

One last item. Can anybody post a schematic of the AT showing the position of the clutch pack. I can't find any such diagram, so far.

Thanks in advance!

bikemobile 07-29-2009 03:35 PM

Automatic

#16

http://static.opposedforces.com/epc_...3494917001.png

http://opposedforces.com/parts/fores...llustration_1/

Manual

http://static.opposedforces.com/epc_...3494912102.png

http://opposedforces.com/parts/fores...llustration_2/

enzorows 07-30-2009 11:30 PM

Thanks for the quick response! The dealer says they'll replace the clutches for $600. That seems reasonable compared to what others have paid. They will not pull the tranny. I think I'll bite the bullet and pay them to do it.

bikemobile 07-30-2009 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by enzorows
Thanks for the quick response! The dealer says they'll replace the clutches for $600. That seems reasonable compared to what others have paid. They will not pull the tranny. I think I'll bite the bullet and pay them to do it.
They will not pull the tranny? Seems like the trans would need to be pulled to do the job right.

plain OM 07-31-2009 07:07 AM

2005?

How many miles on the car?

What symptoms are you experiencing?

Does inserting the AWD disabling fuse have any effect on the symptoms?

Have you had the AT fluid replaced?

What tests have been done to confirm that the clutch itself is "sticky" and that the problem isn't being caused by other components?

Yes, the AWD clutch is part of the AT and is lubricated by the ATF fluid.

I believe that others have tried adding some transmission "treatments" and have reported positive results but you would have to search the forum to find out exactly what they used.

kmltick 07-31-2009 09:14 AM

Lubegard Red or Platinum come highly recommended.

CNY_Dave 07-31-2009 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bikemobile


They will not pull the tranny? Seems like the trans would need to be pulled to do the job right.

I've seen a few post on here it's pretty quick and easy, with no need to pull the trans from the car.

Dave

enzorows 07-31-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by plain OM
2005?

How many miles on the car?

What symptoms are you experiencing?

Does inserting the AWD disabling fuse have any effect on the symptoms?

Have you had the AT fluid replaced?

What tests have been done to confirm that the clutch itself is "sticky" and that the problem isn't being caused by other components?

Yes, the AWD clutch is part of the AT and is lubricated by the ATF fluid.

I believe that others have tried adding some transmission "treatments" and have reported positive results but you would have to search the forum to find out exactly what they used.

It has 100,000 miles.

Putting in the FWD fuse does solve the issue, so it isn't the solenoid.

The symptoms are of classic torque binding which started about 25,000k ago as a very slight problem that I kept asking the shop about and they first said they didn't feel it. Then they said it was the tires. Now it is unmistakeable. My wife, who drives the car daily denied having any binding sensation until recently. I took it to a different shop, a dealer (Busam Subaru) and they said it is too bad to be cured by fluid change. We plan on keeping the car a while so I think that changing out the clutches is better than a more temporary fix. The dealer wants $150 to do a thorough tranny flush and F&R differential oil changes (1 1/2 hrs + fluids). For the $600, they change the clutches and do the diffs and of course a very thorough flush of the ATF, so I figure, for the extra $450, might as well change the clutches.

I inquired at other dealers and they gave me estimates of $1000 - $1500 for the job. Busam wants to keep us happy because we have been looking at a 2010 Outback!

The Forester also has a head gasket issue (see my post under the HG thread). Apparently it is a very minor leak and I am going to change the antifreeze and add some Subaru "Don't-Leak-No-More" additive to see if it will plug it up. It doesn't overheat and never has, and it only slowly consumes coolant. It does burn enough coolant lately that the #2 cylinder misfires sometimes when the engine first starts. The good news is we have a long history of complaining to dealers about coolant aromas and dropping coolant levels going back to when the car was new, so Subaru won't be able to duck this one if a rebuild is needed.

bikemobile 07-31-2009 12:03 PM

$600 for all that work seems like a good deal. Including fluids and clutch materials.

If it gets your foz back on the road for another 100k then i'd say go for it.

Any clue why the clutches burned up so soon?

enzorows 08-05-2009 11:00 AM

WooHoo
 
We got our car back from Busam Subaru in Fairfield, OH... clutch pack replaced and it works perfectly again. Total bill about $630. While not cheap, it's a lot better price than other dealers quoted me. I guess I'll be changing the ATF more often!

nipper 08-05-2009 05:38 PM

Re: WooHoo
 
Quote:

Originally posted by enzorows
We got our car back from Busam Subaru in Fairfield, OH... clutch pack replaced and it works perfectly again. Total bill about $630. While not cheap, it's a lot better price than other dealers quoted me. I guess I'll be changing the ATF more often!
That was cheap actually :).

Now how to avoid this in the future:

Change fluid every 3/36000 miles in the tranny.
Do not drive on a flat tire/underinflated tire.
When using the spare put in the FWD fuse
Make sure all 4 tires match.


nipper

enzorows 08-06-2009 10:02 AM

Of your list of "do's and dont's" the only one we are guilty of is not changing the ATF more often. The levels were checked regularly and the condition of the ATF appeared good by visual inspection, but I guess the additive package was kaput!

One thing I noticed about the owners manual, they do not caution you about using the space saver spare like they used to in older models (we have never had the spare down). I wonder why they took out that warning.


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