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Transmission woes on '05 OBW

1K views 7 replies 5 participants last post by  jarl 
#1 ·
Hello people.

I bought a 2005 Outback wagon (2.5L, 4 speed auto) a few weeks ago, for a good price and knowing it was weeping some oil from the head gaskets and that the transmission was "slipping slightly when cold" (but hey, the body is in excellent condition, and the price was good :) ). I had another my '01 to use while I fixed the '05, so no problem.

Alas... a dumb, distracted driver totaled my '01 while parked in front of my house, so fixing the '05 now became a priority.

I have done head gaskets before, so I'm not particularly worried about it. But the transmission is another story :/ It was indeed slipping slightly when cold (seems to be a common problem), but after parking it for two weeks while on vacation -and a serious drop in temperatures- it refused to run at all for more than 5 minutes. The engine would run without problems, but the transmission would not engage when put in Drive.

After several minutes the car started moving, and now is *almost* back to it's lazy self, but I'd like to know if there's any trick to try on these transmissions before replacing them. On the '99 I had before I used the Trans-X recommended on another website and it seemed to work, but the poster on the main thread mentions specifically the 4EATs from '99 to '01 so I don't know if it will work (and the fluid used in the '05 is the expensive Subaru one, right?).

If/when everything else fails, how difficult is it to replace the transmission? Is there any thread someone would recommend to follow?

Thanks!

J
 
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#3 ·
1. Check ATF level
2. is the AT light blinking 16 times at first start up?
if so - check the codes and tell them to us.

3. any check engine lights?
same thing - if so, check codes and report them. multiple codes, clear and see which one comes back first.

I wouldn't use the Trans-X here, but when things are desperate, who cares, what do you have to loose - a failing transmission?

The Trans-X works for a very specific seal for a very specific reason in 1999 only vehicles. There are ocassional 1998 and 2000 bleed over vehicles, but they're rare, even more rare than a 16 year old, one year vehicle.

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market
 
#4 ·
Hello guys,

As I mentioned things happened very quickly after buying the car, so I have not done anything to it yet. The previous owner mentioned the front differential was repaired/fixed recently, and the ATF changed at that point. I don't know which fluid they used, though. And I believe the level is fine, although I have yet to be able to reliably measure the &*^#@% ATF level on these cars...

The AT light doesn't blink at all, and the only code I have seen a couple of times has to do with a "gross leak - evap. system". The fuel cap was replaced recently, so there's another gremlin lurking somewhere, but I don't see how that may create problems with the transmission :)

I guess I can try the trans-x and see if it works, but I don't want to be flushing the transmission if that means throwing away expensive Subaru ATF (which ATF is used in these trannies, btw?) just to find out I need to replace the transmission anyway. Oh well... I'll have to take a crash course on how to replace transmissions :D
 
#6 ·
doing something like changing fluid at this point is a waste of time and money. The fluid serves no purpose other than lubrication and hydraulic pressure to engage clutches and bands that make the transmission go. If it won't go or slips in multiple gears, that suggests low pressure. Low pressure can be caused by a plugged filter, a pressure or suction leak to or from the pump, or elsewhere, or a pressure regulator that is not functioning correctly. Most modern transmissions have an electronically operated pressure regulator valve (pwm) designed to give low pressure under some circumstances to allow clutches to slip for that smooth feel, and at other times apply full pressure so you don't burn clutches. Worn clutches also cause slippage because the piston that engages them only moves so far. Changing fluid, doing a flush, putting special additives in, etc, is pretty much a waste of time at this point...... You need to find out what's going on. The filter is always a good idea, but is rarely the problem....... If it's plugged, it's plugged with stuff that shouldn't be there! Stuff like ground metal, and fiber from the clutch and band facings. If it's plugged, you have bigger problems. Virtually all automatics have pressure test ports......find information on the transmission, and test the pressures. I have one vehicle that I've completely disabled the PWM valve on so it operates at full pressure all the time....... Contrary to what I was warned, it does NOT shift hard. All I had to do was install a very heavy spring that disabled the action of the PWM...... the best thing I ever did on it. It's survived extremely heavy use for many years and seems non the worse for the experience. Your soob is new enough that it should have something of this sort. Slipping causes wear. My opinion for what it's worth is that every little thing you do to this transaxle at this point is probably money and time down the drain......... I've never changed an auto transaxle in a Soob, but I changed the manual in my '94 last year due to a rear output seal that spun out when the lips froze to the output at -30 and dumped the oil while I was on the road........ It was not a "easy" job, but not a difficult one either. I pulled the engine, and at that point there was not much to pulling the trans. Pulling the 2.2 on my '94 is a matter of an hour's work. I had the whole thing out in under 2 hours. I took the opportunity to do a few other things while the engine was out.... timing belt, a few seals, etc... Going back together took a bit longer. I just did a major lower end overhaul on my 2010 which has the CVT...... the hook up on the CVT and the automatic is basically the same. 4 bolts hold the torque converter to the flywheel. You can access them from on top behind the intake manifold. The difference between pulling an auto trans and a manual is that the manual has almost no wiring, and only a stick connection. The auto has the dipstick tube, the linkage, and a raft of wires, as well as two cooler lines............Not much really. Both require you to take both front axle shafts loose...... which is a piece of cake, and the driveshaft on the rear just slides out.......dumping lots of ATF as you tilt it up and out if you don't do something to prevent it. I made a steel tube that fit into the seal and over the output shaft so it didn't make a mess. No subaru I've seen is difficult to pull apart..... I stripped my 2010 down in the car.... " the hard way " because I wanted to leave the AC compressor and power steering pump hooked up and avoid discharging / draining them. This required me to lift the intake off... which was a bit of a pain in a number of ways......but worth it. It had to come off anyway. On the '93 Impreza I had, I pulled the engine as soon as I got the car home....It had 130K, and some serious oil leaks. It came out in an hour, and I never actually got more than my head under the car.......I was able to reach the exhaust and engine mounts, radiator hoses and fan plugs with my head just barely under, and was able to reach all the bell housing bolts from the top...... It reminded me of pulling a VW engine. The point is don't be afraid to tackle it....... Be systematic and organize your hardware. I like to leave bolts in the assembly I removed..... I have a lot of metric hardware so I just spin nuts on to keep them there.......Take pictures, draw diagrams, take notes, keep hardware in numerous small containers and drop a note in each one so you know what the bolts fit........ Organize them by sequence.....group 1, group 2, 3, 4, etc.... Go backward putting it back together. Just taking the notes and pictures makes you remember................. Go through the whole thing as quickly as possible..... Take it apart and put it together with almost no delay. Disclaimer: I'm the kind of guy you can bring an engine I've never seen, in a basket without any book or data available, and I'll put it together, figuring out torques and torque patterns, timing , etc........ and it will run for many years with no problems......... I can do the same thing with transmissions (manual). I'm not afraid to dive into the unknown. Howard
 
#7 ·
Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer with such detail!
I'm pretty much aware that the transmission is probably very close to being toast at this point, which is why I am reluctant to do a flush on it if the fluid is expensive. Looks like the '05 uses regular Dexron III, though, so maybe I can try a thing or two :)

The interesting thing here -for me- is that the transmission stopped engaging after the car sat still for two weeks. Could it be because of sediment setting down somewhere? The weird thing is that the ATF looks clear. It was replaced ~2000 miles ago so, if there were lot of crap on the transmission it should be easy to tell, wouldn't it? Also it's running again, albeit with the slipping with cold... maybe there's a valve that gets stuck when cold or something like that?

The information about the removal of the tranny is valuable as well. I'll start looking for a replacement 4EAT and line up tools and whatnot. I guess I'll end up doing head gaskets, timing belt, water pump and seals at the same time, so hopefully I'll have my OBW on the road again before any major snow storm. The two times I have removed sooby engines I have ended up taking months to put everything together again, though :)

I didn't understand the sealing of the back of the transmission too well. I'll keep looking for the video/how to...
If anyone has more suggestions I'd love to hear them. Thanks!
 
#8 ·
One more question: which cars/years would have a compatible transmission? I think older OBs used the same transmissions/end ratios as the Foresters. Is this still true?
Thanks!
 
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