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'02 Metallic Squeak stopping when braking

1K views 9 replies 4 participants last post by  Carousser 
#1 ·
Hi all,

Background: 2002 base base base outback. 194k miles.
So in the past three or four weeks I've noticed lately that there is a metalic scraping/squeaking sound coming from what seems to be the front passenger size wheel. Could be the rear passenger side, but I do not have a jack so my only testing is left to driving it and seeing what I can relate as a a pattern, etc.
So anyways, metallic squeaking or grinding that
  • does not start right away, sort of builds up
  • stops when braking
  • usually is caused by turning to the right or centering wheel, turning left makes it stop most of the time
  • frequency increases with speed (rate of the scraping/whirring)
  • can be going any speed, whether it's 65 or 5, and can be heard once the car has been driving for about 10-15 minutes
I had
  • new tires put on (general altimax rt43) in july or august
  • new front brakes in august (forget if I did rotors, will have to check but pretty sure I did at same time as brakes)
  • new front passenger size caliper put on a week ago as the old one was so rusted it chipped and would pull to the side when braking
So new brakes, pretty sure new rotors if I remember correctly (will check receipt tomorrow, it's in the car), and new caliper. I remember when I got the brakes (and rotors?) done there was a slight grinding sound at first when coming to a complete stop, but that had since gone away and I contributed that to the fact of new brakes. This sound started maybe about 3-4 weeks ago, and I thought the caliper was to blame here but I've had the car since last friday (only about 3 days) but I drove it ~60 miles today, ~20 yesterday and ~20 on saturday. So around ~100 miles. Again, my thought process was since I now have the new caliper, it would maybe help wear down any misshapen areas in the rotor or brake pads.

When I picked up the car last friday, the mechanic mentioned how he heard the sound, but nowhere near as bad as I hear it because I usually drive about 30 miles at a time and the sound gets worse overtime. I asked if this was something that would take time to readjust itself, and he said most likely. Now, it's only been ~100 miles on the new caliper, and there is no pulling to the side anymore, but my fear is that maybe it's not the caliper.

I was researching signs of a bad wheel hub bearing because in the beginning of the year, I brought the outback to the same shop (which is an independent shop, family has been going there for a couple years and they are not expensive) for some other issue and they had originally thought one of the bearings on the right side was bad. Turned out the tie rod I had put on by a different shop wasn't tightened all the way, so it was coming loose. FYI, never went back to the other shop again.
But when I was looking up symptoms of a bad wheel bearing, I read that usually a wheel with a bad bearing will be much hotter than one that does not have a bad bearing, due to the increased friction. So I was driving home from work tonight (about 50 minute drive in total), and I got out and noticed the front passenger's side wheel (by where the lugnuts are) was warm, but not hot. The other wheels however were not even warm, though.

Or possibly it's my control arm/boot? I had the front driver's side replace when I got the car in August of 2014, but have not touched the passenger's side. The control arm is rusted but fine, however the boot is torn. There was no play in it however, which is why I never had it done.

I'm sort of wary that it's those things though cause the sound will go away once I start braking, pretty much immediately. I have noticed, though, that there seems to be a point in me pushing the break, maybe like 15% or 20%, that it will "catch" on the sound, and just scrape continuously, where as when just driving it has a rotary scraping sound and anything past that 20% braking power completely silences the sound. I've tried the "Reverse fast and brake hard" trick thinking maybe a rock or something got stuck between the brake or rotor or some plate as roads I usually take were just getting redone, but I could not see anything when I was shining a light through the rims. Maybe it's because I can't see it all, though. Another statement my mechanic made was when he was replacing the caliper, there was actually debris around the area so he cleaned it off, and did the same to the front driver's side wheel cause we thought there was an issue there as well, but all is well with lefty.

I'm going down to DC in a couple days soon so I'm thinking of just dropping it off and having the mechanic look at it while I'm away and just report back to me if there's anything alarming.

Just typing this up made me realize how much the outback has been a money sink :|

Thoughts? I know it's a wall of text, did not plan on that
 
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#2 ·
Could be a slightly worn wheel bearing allowing wheel to 'cant' just a little bit.

I have had a few bad wheel bearings on my subarus, never had one get hotter, even when they were so bad I was driving with hearing protection from the noise.

jack the wheel up, grab at top and bottom, try to rock it (top out bottom in, then reverse)
 
#4 ·
I'll be doing that with a friend when I get back from DC in a couple days.

Although, logically to me, that does not make sense seeing as how the sound stops when I brake. If I'm braking and go straight, left, or right, the sound stops. But if I'm going straight or slightly to the right, it happens.
Adjusted my headlights earlier and went for a drive, I noticed after some time that it happens when turning left too. But only after driving for half an hour or so.

I'll be checking brake pads when I get back too; maybe the damage from the caliper caused damage to the brake pad or rotor, causing something to hit it? I'll check if there's a rock or something stuck there as well.
 
#5 ·
The pads or rotors are not damaged.

Any time the sound is dramatically linked to pushing the brake pedal like that - it's likely to be brake related.

1. rusty rotors - the pads rub pitted/rough rust from the outer or inner non-bearing surface of the rotors. New pads might be just a hair different shape or size or sit in the pad clips just a little bit different and clip the rusty areas of the rotors.
(#1 is unlikely if the rotors were replaced).

If that's the case you have two options:

A. ignore it - it'll eventually wear off. I've seen that countless times.
B. *** Wire brush the rust off, there's no need to replace them as they literally rust over night when it rains, that's what rotors do. Or turn the rotors, again not really necessary but it would clean them all up.

In general you hear the sound as it's lightly scraping - but pressing hard on the brakes makes the sound go away - very common. Like chalk - lightly dragging it on a chalk board may produce louder sounds than just pressing really hard. This is why i'd guess your issue is something along these lines.

2. dust shield bent/pushing into rotor or rock stuck in there. I wouldn't expect this to be so directly linked to brake pedal use though.

3. wheel bearing. there is no one way that always confirms a wheel bearing - modern bearings are hard to decipher. probably not impossible but i wouldn't expect such a direct correlation to the brake pedal again.

Control arm, or anything else - i'd think highly unlikeyl unless we don't know something else important here.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the input Gary. The control arm boot was torn but there was no play, so I never had anything done about it. I believe it's been like that for a year. However, I am fairly certain that it was the front left, as I had one of them replaced when I got the car 2 years ago. Also had both front outer tie rods replaced when I got the car.

As I've been driving it (about 150 miles since my last post), it has only gotten louder/more frequent. I do about 50-75 miles a day. My friend with a jack and tools is busy this week so I will need to wait until the weekend unfortunately to get the wheel off to check.
I was uncertain of it being a wheel bearing or control arm boot, etc. as like we both said - it stops when I brake. To me, it makes sense to be an issue with the brakes/rotors or something with the caliper. But then again, I'm a computer guy and not a car guy. Although I've been slowly doing some small work on my own and mustering up the courage to do bigger things (just took both headlight assemblies off, cleaned, and fixed orientation - I know, not too big of a deal :grin2: )

Something I do notice however, like I said in the main post, is that if I brake a small amount, I can actually get the sound to be continuous. If I brake a little less or a little more, it will go away but come back when I'm not braking. I looked through the service records of work I've had done and I couldn't find the recent brake job one, and I'm starting to question when I had the rotors replaced last. Time flies by so quickly now.

One last thing; My CEL came on today on my drive home. I'm hoping it has to do with exhaust and nothing major. If it's exhaust, I'll just leave it be because I had emissions done last year and it passed. I ordered an OBD scanner and it should arrive Thursday so I'll be able to update this thread with the code that it's throwing.

Again, thank you all for the input/insight. I will check the ideas you pointed out Gary. I only wish I had a jack.

Side note - if anyone can recommend a good brand that is reliable but not break the bank, that would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure what to look for in a jack or jack stand

10/19 Edit --
Had a friend bring his OBD scanner to campus today, it threw P0420 which made me sooo happy. The code gets thrown every 5-10k miles and either being a cat problem or an o2 sensor, in my opinion, is not something that would need to be done anytime soon.

Gary, or anyone really - Would the same apply in my case where it doesn't happen right away? The sound starts happening the more I drive and use my brakes. It also predominately happens when turning slightly right or having the wheel centered. To me, it seems like something rubbing (maybe like Gary said, rubbing against the rotor), causing friction. I have noticed that the right front wheel gets much hotter than the others after driving for a bit. To me that seems like since there is friction with something, it's making the sound but also heating up evberything around the area.

Maybe because it's heating up/getting hot, it's causing something to be more flexible and slightly bend or get worse? Would that explain why it gets worse the more I drive?

10/19 Edit 2 --

So I shone a flashlight through the wheel to look at the rotor and dust shield, and it looks to me like a portion towards the caliper is bent inwards a little bit. It was severely rusted and I could scrape rust off of it. Maybe a chunk of rust has lodged itself somewhere inside? I tried pushing it back a little, and not sure if I was successful because it seemed to bounce back, but I am heading to work shortly and will see how it is now. I'll try to snap a photo of what I'm talking about when I get back.
I looked at the other 3 dust shields and I noticed that the dust shield on the back two wheels seem to have a lip that goes over the top of the rotor, while the two front ones don't. What is the reason for that?
 
#7 ·
P0420 is rarely a cat problem. Can wait forever to fix it, no operational impact.

My earlier post about wheel bearings relates to the fact that if the wheel can move around even a tiny bit (in angle) due to worn wheel bearings, hitting the brakes can actually cause it to move to a new position.
 
#8 ·
When I get free time with my friend with a jack I shall try it out. I'll try moving it side to side and up and down and see if there's any play. I'll do it with all wheels as a measure of precaution and shall post back. That seems, unfortunately, more likely because of the fact that it happens when rotating the wheel.

Thanks!
 
#9 ·
Sorry for double post, but wanted to update anyone interested in this.

Took front wheel off, took caliper along with brake pads off and cleaned the area. Rotors in good shape, along with pads. Found my service record, had the rotors replaced same time as brakes.
After putting everything back on, drove around for a little, and sound came back again. However we now think it's the back right wheel. Did not have enough time to take the wheel off, but we shone a flashlight into the well and could see the brake pad had very little life left, so I'm thinking it just needs new rear brakes. Going to take it off this weekend and will update again.
 
#10 ·
So the problem was just found and solved. The backing plates of the REAR right wheel was rusted and warped inward toward the rotor hub, causing it to bend a little and scrape against the rotor hub when it heated up, causing the noise. We cleaned off the rust and bent the plate back so it would not conflict anymore.

Glad it's not a wheel bearing! Thanks all for your insight
 
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