Relentless steering wheel shimmy - Part II

[DavidPeab]

are there any published limits for run-out?

The runout should be less than 0.05 mm. Here are my results showing all but right front (RF) are within specs:
LF: 0.024
RF: 0.114
LR:0.026
RR: 0.044

Heck, even dismounting rotors and/or wheels and rotating them 2 studs, might change the curves.

There's a good chance the wheels are on different studs since I rotated them. The front rotors are about 6 months old and the rear about a month. I may pull the RF wheel off and check the rotor runout, but it seems like too much of a pain to take the caliper off to move the rotor a couple of studs if the dial indicator says the rotor is in spec.

It sounds to me like you need a new steering rack.

The name of this thread should be "Dang, it seems like I need a new steering rack but don't want to go through the hassle or expense." lol

Thanks for all your help so far guys.

[namuwilliams]

I'm afraid that this thread will, ultimately, be very useful for me, lol. Thanks for sharing David!

On a side note, the daughter of a church member is doing that same ballet competition! Good luck with it!

[Sackett]

Where did the dealership get the axles from? we had a problem car that i put axles in and had a vibration. Warrantied them out and still had a vibration. Swapped them with another car and the problem went away, ended up putting SUBARU reman axles in it, not a local house brand.

[cardoc]

What did your brake pads look like that you removed? Even wear between inside/outside pads? Uneven? Outside worn faster? Inside?

What condition do the brake hoses appear to be in?

Have you flushed the brake fluid? Two purposes here; one it will clear out moisture and the color/condition will let me know where you need to go from here.

Were the new rotors refaced before installation? 95% of the time, the runout of new rotors out of the box will be off. Especially Auto Zone rotors. I never use them. I have seen how they stack them and their rotors are not manufactured properly to begin with.

Were the caliper guide pins cleaned and lubed when the brake repair was performed?

On another level/category, what condition are the strut mounts in?

[cardoc]

Dam browser. Didn't show the other pages before I posted the above reply.

If I got this correct, you swapped the wheels and got the same runout on the right front?

If this is correct, it generally indicates a bad bearing or hub. If the bearing was replaced and the hub had damage from a failed bearing and was reused anyway, it would not seat correctly in the bearing. If the bearing and hub were replaced, it is still possible that the bearing and hub were not seated proper in the spindle which would cause your runout. It is also a possiblility that a cheap hub was used and the hub is not "square".

Break it down to the hub with the rotor off and check the runout on the hub. Unless you've located it by now, and if you have please let us know what you found.

[DavidPeab]

Sorry about taking so long to get back to this one. Real life has once again intruded on what I want to do vs. what I need to do. I did do the valve cover gaskets with the spark plug tube gaskets, etc. I also did the timing belt with the water pump, idlers and tension arm. The smaller of the two cover pieces on the drivers side broke while I was trying to get the bolts off (they sheared off) and I had to wait 3 days for the replacement. Restored the headlights as well.

I'm not in a position to do much more with the car for a bit because I busted up my leg while turning the sailboat around in the slip for the winter (long stupid story - big boat, old dock, uncoordinated spaz). So, no car work for another 6 weeks or so. But here are the answers I can give for now.

Where did the dealership get the axles from?

Annapolis Subaru. That solved the original grinding while turning axle problem but not the shimmy, so I brought it back to them when the shimmy did not go away. They replaced the passenger side because it seemed it might have the slightest, never seen before in all my years, possibility that there could have been a minor problem, so we just went ahead and replaced it anyway to be sure you are happy, situation. I just assumed they were using OEM or at least as good as OEM parts.

What did your brake pads look like that you removed? Even wear between inside/outside pads? Uneven? Outside worn faster? Inside?

Front pads even. Still within spec actually. Replaced rotors to eliminate peddle pulsation. Rear pads inside worn a lot more than outside on both sides.

What condition do the brake hoses appear to be in?

From my perspective as a graphic artist and not a mechanic, they looked fine, flexible, and clean.

Have you flushed the brake fluid?

Did it when I did the front and did not when I did the rear a couple of months later because I could not find a bleeding assistant. It looked pretty cherry then though. I did not even open the bleeders in the rear now that I think of it. So, I'll add that to the to-do list.

Were the new rotors refaced before installation?

No. From Autozone! Sounds like another excuse to break out the dial gauge.

Were the caliper guide pins cleaned and lubed when the brake repair was performed?

Yes. Replaced rear ones with OEM as well.

On another level/category, what condition are the strut mounts in?

Rechecked while waiting for the timing cover and the mounts etc. looked fine. Almost hoped the right front was bad so I would have a direction to go in.

If I got this correct, you swapped the wheels and got the same runout on the right front?

Yes. This is what started me focusing on the right front wheel and suspension. The bearings, ball joints, boots, and bushings all passed visual inspection and the "wiggle tests." Would a damaged, improperly installed, or cheap replacement hub and/or bearing pass those tests as well? Perhaps I answered my own question with the dial gauge.

I'd like to find another set of wheels to swap with to finally eliminate the most obvious culprit. They guy who did the road force balance told me they were just within spec. So...

I'm going to let my local car guy do the hub, bearing, and spindle inspection and/or work. He does imports and Subarus and was recommended by some folks driving Gen 2 OBWs I approached in parking lots around here. I talked to him about this problem and he told me he spent weeks trying to fix it on an '01 with no success. Could this be another one of Subaru's special little quirks that makes only a Subaru a Subaru?

It'll have to wait until after Christmas due to leg injury and kids wanting stuff like iPhone 5 and laptop before I do any other work on the Sube.

[cardoc]

I'm still leaning toward worn/damaged/irregular hub/bearing. That's a lot of hashes.

Its not a Subaru thing. Its a car thing. Period.

When I interview my customers, and sometimes it quite fun doing it, I get them to mimick the noise. Its effective and entertaining. And they love me for it. If that doesn't do it, which in most cases it gives me an idea where to look, I drive the car and listen to it. You would be surprised at how I am able to determine a failure, or potential failure, just by the noise or noises I hear. Every part makes a specific type of noise and sometimes a series of noises when they fail. And the noises differ at various levels of the failure.

You have it narrowed to the right front knee of the car. Your just spinning your wheels changing them out again. Its down to tear down one piece at a time, measure, feel and listen as you go. And put that dial gauge on the hub. Think physics: The wave enlarges as it moves outward. The bearing is at the center.


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[DavidPeab]

Soon. I cannot bend my knee in this cast. Therefore no dial gauging or even driving for a while. I rode with my wife today and she scares me. lol She drives a 2011 Hyundai Sonata. The car is one big blind-spot.

[cardoc]

Originally Posted by DavidPeab

Soon. I cannot bend my knee in this cast. Therefore no dial gauging or even driving for a while. I rode with my wife today and she scares me. lol She drives a 2011 Hyundai Sonata. The car is one big blind-spot.

That car is one POS. Wait till you have to perform a repair. A lot of cheap plastics.

Hyundais are what I call the throw away car. They are sold cheap. Parts cost are high. The dealers always find an "out" for warranty coverage, even down to the timeline for oil changes.

The designs have gotten better for the engines, clutches, but there are still many cheap manufactured parts on the car bumper to bumper. They learned too much from Ford.

[DavidPeab]

I've never had much luck with Fords either.