ATF dipsteck level TOO HIGH

[plain OM]

The engine on/engine off issue has caught a good number of people new to Subarus.

I wonder why Subaru (and perhaps others) don't calibrate (mark) the ATF dipstick for "engine off" levels, essentially the same as for the other dipsticks (engine, MT, and the front differential on the ATs pre-CVT).

In this regard, some time ago, after ensuring that the level was correct in my Subaru AT, I waited until the car was cool (parked overnight), and noted the "engine off, engine cool" level of the ATF on the dipstick. After repeating this over several days to be sure, I marked the dipstick at that point. It's just a small scratch on the flat surface about 7/8-inch above the upper HOT hole.

I use the engine off/ATF cool mark routinely, and the specified engine on/ATF hot markings periodically. I believe they will tend to follow each other, so the engine off/ATF cool mark should be a reasonable indicator of significant changes in the level (unless someone can demonstrate to the contrary).

But I digress from the original issue . . . .

[1 Lucky Texan]

Originally Posted by plain OM

The engine on/engine off issue has caught a good number of people new to Subarus.

I wonder why Subaru (and perhaps others) don't calibrate (mark) the ATF dipstick for "engine off" levels, essentially the same as for the other dipsticks (engine, MT, and the front differential on the ATs pre-CVT).

In this regard, some time ago, after ensuring that the level was correct in my Subaru AT, I waited until the car was cool (parked overnight), and noted the "engine off, engine cool" level of the ATF on the dipstick. After repeating this over several days to be sure, I marked the dipstick at that point. It's just a small scratch on the flat surface about 7/8-inch above the upper HOT hole.

I use the engine off/ATF cool mark routinely, and the specified engine on/ATF hot markings periodically. I believe they will tend to follow each other, so the engine off/ATF cool mark should be a reasonable indicator of significant changes in the level (unless someone can demonstrate to the contrary).

But I digress from the original issue . . . .

I've had this same thought but never acted on it. Good to read it seems to work. At least it should be a good quick-check indicator.

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted by plain OM

The engine on/engine off issue has caught a good number of people new to Subarus.

I wonder why Subaru (and perhaps others) don't calibrate (mark) the ATF dipstick for "engine off" levels, essentially the same as for the other dipsticks (engine, MT, and the front differential on the ATs pre-CVT).

In this regard, some time ago, after ensuring that the level was correct in my Subaru AT, I waited until the car was cool (parked overnight), and noted the "engine off, engine cool" level of the ATF on the dipstick. After repeating this over several days to be sure, I marked the dipstick at that point. It's just a small scratch on the flat surface about 7/8-inch above the upper HOT hole.

I use the engine off/ATF cool mark routinely, and the specified engine on/ATF hot markings periodically. I believe they will tend to follow each other, so the engine off/ATF cool mark should be a reasonable indicator of significant changes in the level (unless someone can demonstrate to the contrary).

But I digress from the original issue . . . .

I believe the engine running check for ATF is almost universal, and is necessary because fluid can drain from cavities in the trannie when shut down, giving false high readings (Which could give a false OK reading, when the fluid is actually low. Checking hot and running, after cycling through the gears, is the only true way to assure that the level is where is should be.

Engines are supposed to drain down to the pan when shut down, with the notable exception of inverted oil filters.......faulty drain back valves can give a incorrectly high level reading, if the drain back valve malfunctions.

[AltaBrig]

Originally Posted by plain OM

The engine on/engine off issue has caught a good number of people new to Subarus.

I wonder why Subaru (and perhaps others) don't calibrate (mark) the ATF dipstick for "engine off" levels, essentially the same as for the other dipsticks (engine, MT, and the front differential on the ATs pre-CVT).

In this regard, some time ago, after ensuring that the level was correct in my Subaru AT, I waited until the car was cool (parked overnight), and noted the "engine off, engine cool" level of the ATF on the dipstick. After repeating this over several days to be sure, I marked the dipstick at that point. It's just a small scratch on the flat surface about 7/8-inch above the upper HOT hole.

I use the engine off/ATF cool mark routinely, and the specified engine on/ATF hot markings periodically. I believe they will tend to follow each other, so the engine off/ATF cool mark should be a reasonable indicator of significant changes in the level (unless someone can demonstrate to the contrary).

But I digress from the original issue . . . .

Excellent tip. Thanks for the patient advice here and on many other threads. I plan on making a similar notch after observing it after work and in the am for a few days. I will hold off on the drain and fill to set up a proper baseline. If it keeps reading high. I will drain it and try to set it between the hash holes on the stick.

Originally Posted by tdelker

Yes, make sure you move through the gears and then return to park and engine running before checking.

A trick I've seen others mention because of the difficulty with checking the actual level of the ATF - Measure the amount of fluid you take out and put exactly that much back in. Assume it was the right amount from the factory and you don't have any leaks.

And don't use your wife's good measuring cups

Tom

Roger that. I bought some cheapo 2 quart plastic containers from the .99 for the ATF and the 2 Differentials.

Not going to use the Pyrex. She's been trying to eat organic, and I am pretty sure the AT sauce and various heavy metals in suspension wouldn't be on the list.

D@*# $4.49 organic eggs.

I am not sure if I can get a clean read on the dipstick period. Just pulling out between the two hose and tubing lines above it causes me to bang it on the side of the fill tube several times.

If I can't get a lower reading I am gonna hope in one hand while I drain and fill the AT with the other that I haven't been driving hard for 35K with the fluid over max capacity.

[1 Lucky Texan]

on my cars, the following helped;

Hopkins TF-1 Heavy Duty Transmission Funnel,18" Hose,Red : Amazon.com : Automotive

Hopkins TF-1 Heavy Duty Transmission Funnel,18" Hose,Red : Amazon.com : Automotive

Custom Accessories 36670 Pennzoil Fluid Transfer Pump - Quart : Amazon.com : Automotive

Custom Accessories 36670 Pennzoil Fluid Transfer Pump - Quart : Amazon.com : Automotive

[AltaBrig]

^Digging the penzoil pump for the rear diff. Nice.

Got this for the ATF. Jams in the tube nicely and stands up tall above the compartment.
Got this at WallyWorld for $1.83.

RhinoGear 05034 Super Funnel : Amazon.com : Automotive

RhinoGear 05034 Super Funnel : Amazon.com : Automotive

RhinoGear Super Funnel: Tools : Walmart.com

[plain OM]

Originally Posted by 4wheeldog

I believe the engine running check for ATF is almost universal, and is necessary because fluid can drain from cavities in the trannie when shut down, giving false high readings (Which could give a false OK reading, when the fluid is actually low. Checking hot and running, after cycling through the gears, is the only true way to assure that the level is where is should be.

Engines are supposed to drain down to the pan when shut down, with the notable exception of inverted oil filters.......faulty drain back valves can give a incorrectly high level reading, if the drain back valve malfunctions.

Agreed. That's why my "engine off/ATF cool" mark was set after an overnight "rest". In that time, pretty much all the fluid that will drain down will have done so, and even if there's any left "up above", it won't make a big difference. I've never had the level go up further after the first night. In fact, shortly after the engine is stopped, the level is very close to the "next morning" level -- close enough to be of little concern. The idea is as 1 Lucky Texan said: "a good quick-check indicator.". It's not for setting the level, but once it's understood, will indicate if there's been an unusual, and unexpected, change.

But I do recognize your point, and that's why I still do the "hot and running" check -- it's just that the added mark enables me to monitor more often without having to start the engine specifically for this.

[AltaBrig]

The ATF is still 3/8" (I overestimated when I wrote 1/2") over the Hot H hash hole tonight. Left the dipstick out for 5 minutes before checking several time. Identically high. Gonna check it in the morning again cold. Looks to have a tad much fluid in her.

Guess I should drain it, measure what comes out, and add a bit less back and check it everytime I drive it and every morning cold until I can set a level withing the corresponding correct marks on the stick.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Originally Posted by AltaBrig

The ATF is still 3/8" (I overestimated when I wrote 1/2") over the Hot H hash hole tonight. Left the dipstick out for 5 minutes before checking several time. Identically high. Gonna check it in the morning again cold. Looks to have a tad much fluid in her.

Guess I should drain it, measure what comes out, and add a bit less back and check it everytime I drive it and every morning cold until I can set a level withing the corresponding correct marks on the stick.

The stick is 'more sensitive' (higher resolution???) than typical engine oil dipsticks.

that is to say, equivalent distances on the tranny stick is about a pint of fluid where on the engine stick it might be a quart.



did that make sense - yeah, reduce the amount you put back in and 'sneak up' on the correct level half-pint at a time.

[Novablue]

I don't think 3/8 too high can harm the tranny. You have noticed a problem by now anyway if you had. Agree, putting in less is a safe bet. It's also possible one of your friendly service people topped it off when they should not have... you just never know.