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Old 01-11-2013, 11:21 PM   #51 (permalink)
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If the wheels are in specification that means he checked the alignment. So where is the printout of the alignment specs?

If anyone can get a printout that shows toe, camber and caster measurements prior to any adjustments and post them here I will be able to tell you for sure by reading the measurements.

Its like I tell the techs I train; Just because its "in the green" doesn't make it right. Adjust the wheels to the prime indicated measurement and it will steer better, handle better and reduce tire wear. If their measurements are within spec, that still doesn't make the alignment correct. Total camber or caster can be out of spec with single wheel measurements showing in spec.
The following is for a '13 OB using '10-'11 alignment specs. At the time of the alignment, my dealer did not have the specs for the '13's yet so they used the '10-'11 specs. It's now back at the dealer for another alignment using the '13 specs. I will post those results as well when I get them. My OB felt extremely unstable and wandered all over the highway before it was aligned. The alignment did help but I still feel there is room for improvement. Let me know what you think of the results below:

Before:

Left Front_______ Right Front

Camber -0.6________ 0.5

Caster (no reading)?____(no reading)?

Toe .09____________.00

Total Toe .09

Steer Ahead .04

Left Rear__________Right Rear

Camber 0.1_________-0.4

Toe .13___________-.05

Total Toe .08

Thrust Angle .09


After:

Left Front_______ Right Front

Camber -0.1________ 0.0

Caster 5.3__________4.6

Toe -.02____________.02

Total Toe .00

Steer Ahead -.02

Left Rear__________Right Rear

Camber 0.0_________-0.4

Toe .10___________.05

Total Toe .15

Thrust Angle .02
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:35 AM   #52 (permalink)
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The after specs you've posted are an example of a misalignment. The front toe is tolerable, it totals 0. The camber is set straight up, I would have put it negative for sweeping turns and cornering contact. The caster is way out. The measurement show the right wheel is .7 degrees further back from the left. A bit more than 1/2 inch.

On the rear, the wheels are toed in too far, especially the left. With this setup your car is dogtracking to the right. And probably drifts right. Is your steering wheel turned right when cruising straight? Do you have to hold the wheel straight or slightly left to keep it in the lane?
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:48 AM   #53 (permalink)
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The after specs you've posted are an example of a misalignment. The front toe is tolerable, it totals 0. The camber is set straight up, I would have put it negative for sweeping turns and cornering contact. The caster is way out. The measurement show the right wheel is .7 degrees further back from the left. A bit more than 1/2 inch.

On the rear, the wheels are toed in too far, especially the left. With this setup your car is dogtracking to the right. And probably drifts right. Is your steering wheel turned right when cruising straight? Do you have to hold the wheel straight or slightly left to keep it in the lane?
When I saw the after alignment readings on the printout which has an illustration of the tires, I came up with the same feeling that the car would be dogtracking to the right a little. With the current alignment, the car seems to pull right slightly...but ever so slightly. It follows road crowns on the right more than it does on the left. Also, the steering is reluctant to return to center...more the right than the left.

I don't have too much faith in the 2nd alignment that the dealer is doing now but I am having them do it so I can have a record with SOA...especially since they are using the '13 alignment specs this time around. I plan to bring the OB to a place I am familiar with that will dial in the alignment as I request instead of just getting green blocks on the alignment machine readout.

It's just amazing the the factory trained technicians can't handle correcting an alignment on a new car. Even more amazing is how these cars are leaving the factory with the alignments so out of spec!

Inexcusable....PERIOD
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:20 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Where can I find the 2013 OB alignment specs?
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:46 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Hunter Technologies downloads my specs once a year, sometimes 2 times. I do not have 2013 specs on my system for a lot of the cars, so I tend to figure the curb weight, tire size and wheel base to estimate unless I can find it somewhere online. At this time, there is no published data for a 2013 alignment. I have attached the 2012 specs below.

As for "factory trained technicians", I am going to fill you in on something. The only factory trained technicians are the ones at the factory. There are "factory" training materials available at the dealers, but do you know which ones actually paid attention and learned what was being taught? Its like math, some get it, some don't. Most new techs at the dealer service centers are learning on the job the same as any other repair facility. They are hired out of community college or technical training schools such as UTI. If they paid attention and are serious about what they do, they will put an effort out to learn and get the job right. If they got into it just because they thought they could make a lot of money and its a gravy job, they don't last.

If you want a good repair tech, find the hole in the wall shop with the guy that takes the time to explain to you how the car operates and what went wrong to cause you to be there and what you can do to prevent repeat visits. That's the guy you want. The one that cares about the car as much as the one that drives it.

We are a rare breed anymore.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:27 PM   #56 (permalink)
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To add a bit to Cardoc's post. It doesn't help the drivers especially if there are guys out there that work on comission. They take a job that says should need 2hrs to do on paper and they try and do it in 1hr. That's why they say "It's in the Green" because it's thier shortcut.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:20 PM   #57 (permalink)
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To add a bit to Cardoc's post. It doesn't help the drivers especially if there are guys out there that work on comission. They take a job that says should need 2hrs to do on paper and they try and do it in 1hr. That's why they say "It's in the Green" because it's thier shortcut.
You can't say that about Flag hour pay. Its not commission, it flag pay based on listed labor hour rating. If someone is working flag, he would want the vehicle repaired proper the first time or he will work on it again for free. Its called a come back.

Its the hourly, timeclock punchers that cause the issues. Whether its right or wrong, they get paid either way. Its called cheap labor for the dealer. Its cheaper for them to pay a newbie $9 an hour for the repair. If it comes back, so what, another $9 an hour. On the other hand, the experienced tech billing $30 and hour for what he knows, can actually make upwards of $90 and hour if he knows what he's doing and will prevent comebacks by getting it right the first time so he is open to make more money rather than work for free on a comeback.

The flag hour paid tech that has a high number of comebacks needs to find another career path and stay away from automobiles. Maybe try flipping burgers or mopping up.

So, you want that experienced flag hour tech that knows what he's doing. Cause he doesn't want to lose money.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:41 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardoc View Post
You can't say that about Flag hour pay. Its not commission, it flag pay based on listed labor hour rating. If someone is working flag, he would want the vehicle repaired proper the first time or he will work on it again for free. Its called a come back.

Its the hourly, timeclock punchers that cause the issues. Whether its right or wrong, they get paid either way. Its called cheap labor for the dealer. Its cheaper for them to pay a newbie $9 an hour for the repair. If it comes back, so what, another $9 an hour. On the other hand, the experienced tech billing $30 and hour for what he knows, can actually make upwards of $90 and hour if he knows what he's doing and will prevent comebacks by getting it right the first time so he is open to make more money rather than work for free on a comeback.

The flag hour paid tech that has a high number of comebacks needs to find another career path and stay away from automobiles. Maybe try flipping burgers or mopping up.

So, you want that experienced flag hour tech that knows what he's doing. Cause he doesn't want to lose money.
So what do you make of when you take your car to the dealer and ask for an alignment, an hour later they come out and tell you they can't do an alignment because "Your Car is perfect and right in the middle of the specs"
The work order also says "Made No Adjustment"

But when you look at the alignment sheet it is obvious they made a lot of adjustment to the front toe which clearly was not "Your car is perfect and right in the middle of the specs.

Below is the alignment sheet.

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:01 AM   #59 (permalink)
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So what do you make of when you take your car to the dealer and ask for an alignment, an hour later they come out and tell you they can't do an alignment because "Your Car is perfect and right in the middle of the specs"
The work order also says "Made No Adjustment"

But when you look at the alignment sheet it is obvious they made a lot of adjustment to the front toe which clearly was not "Your car is perfect and right in the middle of the specs.

Below is the alignment sheet.

Your car is dogtracking right. The left rear toe in is forcing the rear of the car right.

I don't think they made any adjustments. If you look at the front toe measurements before and after, add the left and right measurements and the total toe is the same. The before measurement on the front is with the steering wheel in one position, the after measurements are with the steering wheel moved right to show the after measurements. The tech most likely saw the measurements, turned the wheel to show a thrust angle close to "0" and as a result, the toe measurements changed. No adjustment. The steering wheel was probably centered with the before and cocked right with the after.

It does need an alignment to stop the dogtracking and help get rid of the vibration at highway speeds. The caster angles are good.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:04 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Ok so here is my front end report... from December. Today I had my appointment and the tech just cut the corner (most under the car) off the splash guard. He said Caster can vary as much as half an inch... go figure.
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