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Snow tire advice

23K views 37 replies 23 participants last post by  mcmillonbe1 
#1 ·
Now that it's October, I've been thinking about getting snow tires for my new OB, since I understand that the OEM Bridgestones are not that great in snow and I live in a high-snowfall area. I have been told that, for the winter, I would be better off replacing the 18 inch wheels with 17 inchers and getting snow tires to match. The reasoning is that smaller tires perform better in snow, and 17 inch tires are cheaper to purchase than 18 inchers. I could probably purchase used 17 inch wheels fairly cheaply and it would be a one-time purchase. But then I would also have to purchase TPMS sensors for those wheels as well, adding to the overall cost.

My question is whether the extra benefit (supposedly) of going down a tire size outweighs the extra expense of the wheels and TPMS sensors. Or would I be better off just buying 18 inch snow tires even if they cost a little more? Or, since the OEM tires still have lots of tread, should I stick with them for the first winter (remember, I live in Buffalo which is known for huge snowfalls)?

Advice, anyone?
 
#2 ·
smaller rim size snows are cheaper, when the regular overall diameter remains the same. = and the deeper side wall protects the rims on the march pot holes, vs. big bro rims.
________

all seasons suck balls in the 2nd winter. (not enough tread depth to bite into 2" of sloppy snow).

I run cooper studded on their own rims in the top of the Cats. can climb a ice covered waterfall.

_________

just detailed some of that here for someone in near hot Kingston.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...ello-hudson-valley-region-ny.html#post4316473
 
#3 ·
I've had my '05 2.5i since it was born. Never had a snow tire on it - never been stuck (most was 48" of super heavy snow at our old house in IL). Walked right through it on crappy no seasons.
That being said - now living in Colorado, and my son is about to start his travel hockey season which will take us all over Colorado this winter - I'm about to put winter tires on for the first time ever (blizzak ws80's).

My suggestion - since your OB Is brand new, and you are brand new to it - stick with OEM's for now.
Totally agree with eagle though....second year on all no seasons blow in the winter
 
#11 ·
I guess in years past you would call uncle @traildogck if one of the kiddies got hurt in a bad snowstorm,

....and the ambulances could not make it to you with their wimpy "on the spot" flail chain systems.

and he arrives with Francine and her studded coopers to save the day.

________

and I put my snows on when the 50 degree temps are gone,.... Nov 15 or so,...sometimes as late as Dec 10th.

nice to do on the last warm day / evening as a slow DIY,

....I have done them a few times when it is 30 in the garage,:(
 
#4 ·
Smaller tires typically cost less because the trend in car tire sizes has been to increase. This means more manufacturing is already online for older sizes, but still ramping up for newer sizes. At some point, the costs normalize.

So it's worth looking into this more deeply, because at some point the 18" won't have much of a price premium over the 17".

I would also point out an additional benefit: higher aspect ratio tires (such as 17" in this case) are more resistant to pothole damage, blowouts, rim cracking and worse. These are all good things at the end of winter when the roads themselves are wrecked and you can't quite remember where the curbs are.

TPMS is an unfortunate extra expense, and Subaru's system leaves much to be desired when it comes to managing multiple sets of tires.

The difference in traction between all-seasons and dedicated snow tires is not small. Real snows will give you an enormous safety and performance advantage- the hard part is remembering that most other drivers won't have nearly as much control as you do.
 
#5 ·
I was under the impression you should not install snow tires until temps drop to the low 40's as warmer weather can cause excessive wear.

I'm not sure what I am going to do here in NJ. We don't get a tone of snow so I'm thinking I will see how these Bridgestone's do. I had a set of Blizzak's on my RWD Lexus LS and they did a great job in that major snow storm last February I believe it was.
 
#9 ·
I was under the impression you should not install snow tires until temps drop to the low 40's as warmer weather can cause excessive wear.
That's very true- but it's usually better to buy them earlier in the season. Snow tires are typically manufactured months in advance, and if the factory guessed low on demand, there will be something between less selection and an all-out shortage once the temps are actually low enough to use them.

I typically install mine in mid-November, and they come off between March 1 and April 15. I'm in Southeastern Pennsylvania.
 
#6 ·
Even here in VA I typically run winter tires and wheels. Agree all season tires suck in snow or icy conditions. I go down 1" in wheel size and get a narrower tread with taller profile and similar rotation per mile to minimize speedometer error.

We live on a hill and winter tires do make a difference, here they're usually on from early December to late March or so.

No question in my mind they do better than all seasons.
 
#7 ·
If you have winters as severe as you said, then you'll likely be unhappy with running all-season tires year round even if they're not the OE Bridgestones, which as you note are not the best in real winter condition anyway.

So you're likely to be switching tires in the fall and then again in the spring every year, just as we here in the Colorado mountains must do.
This means you either pay twice a year to have the tires removed from the rims then have the "other" tires mounted and balanced, or have dedicated rims for your winter rubber and just switch them out.

Unfortunately, the TPMS won't work as advertised unless you have sensors in both sets of wheels, and they're about $40 a pop, and then the TPMS must be reset to recognize the sensors in the winter wheels, then reset again in the spring to again recognize the summer ones.

In your situation, I'd do what we're doing here in Colorado; go for the 17" extra set of rims, install sensors in them, and mount good winter rubber. I'm quite certain if you call around you can find a tire shop which will work with you to minimize annual ongoing costs.

We change our own wheels back and forth in the spring and fall, then drop in at the tire shop when it's convenient to have them reset the TPMS, which they do for free without an appointment in less time than it takes to get a cup of coffee next door.
If we wanted to have them switch wheels, they'd do that for free too if we had bought the winter tires and rims from them, and they'll even store the unused wheel/tire combinations for those people (like apartment dwellers) who don't have room for that kind of thing for a very modest cost.
Certainly much much less than the cost of mounting and balancing 4 tires twice a year.

And yeah, 17" tires are less expensive and being taller will give you a smoother ride in winter conditions than 18's.

You can also, after the OEM tires wear out, then run whatever (18") summer tires you want without worrying about whether they're "good in the snow".
 
#15 ·
Sept 15th - April 15th. Again, my year round sets were NOT studded. The roads hear suffer from shear traffic volume...long before studs year round are an issue. New asphalt will be rutted to tracks my car will almost follow...within a couple weeks of being laid.

The only way they can build anything to hold up...is old school reinforced concrete, But the quality of that is so bad ... it starts cracking at seams and joints...and becomes it's own problem...

Year round studs are the least of Colorado's infrastructure concerns. Sure...The "Toll Roads" are nice...for now...
 
#16 ·
got to tear up what is there and lay new base. ...old school reinforced concrete breaks the blacktop they lay on top of it at the concrete expansion joints. ...so in three years they have to eat up the blacktop and relay it. (programmed obsolescence for the black-toppers be them municipal or contractors).
 
#18 ·
I am a first time Subaru owner. Happy so far. I have had summer/winter setups for my last 4 vehicles - typically ultra high performance all season for summer and performance winters (H rated or better).

I knew going in that Subarus tire sizing doesn't offer a lot of choices. I almost bought a set of take off wheels for a winter set, but the TPMS was a real PITA. I have replaced by OEM tires with Michelin Premiers which have a much better snow rating than the Bridgestone duelers.

I think they should be fine-
 
#21 ·
On 17" vs 18", 17" gives you a bit more protection from pot holes since you have the extra 1/2" of sidewall to protect your winter wheels.

I bought cheap 17" alloys on Tire Rack. They were discontinued and I recall paying $89 + shipping for them. I shopped all over the internet for TPMS senders. They're annoyingly expensive. Tire Rack was as cheap as anywhere I found unless I opted for iffy Chinese knockoffs. Tire Rack shipped the wheels with the TPMS valve stems and correct spacers already installed.

I tried Blizzak WS50's in 2007. They have amazing grip but the grip vanishes at about 12,000 miles when the outer layer of the tire wears off. I'd been a Nokian user for many years and I went back to Nokian. The performance is just as good and you get easily 3x the tread life. I've run their studless friction tire since 2001. I've had the "Q", the "R", and now the "R2" on my Outback. I've also run studded Nokians on body-on-frame SUVs but that's overkill on a lighter Outback unless you live on a steep dirt road that gets icy where the studs are essential.

I bought my Nokians locally. The tire shop was unable to program the new sender serial numbers into my car so I took a smartphone photo of the new serial numbers from their TPMS tool display and bought an ATEQ TPMS QuickSet ODB II - USB dongle from Tire Rack for $120.00 and use my laptop to program the TPMS serial numbers.

If you have pushbutton start, you have to push the "START" button twice with your foot off the brake to go from "ACCESSORIES" mode to "ON" mode where the ODB II port works. I suspect this was why the tire shop couldn't program my car.

If I weren't brand loyal to Nokian, I'd probably give the Michelin X Ice a shot. With the poor tire wear, I'm not doing Blizzak WSx0 again. If I had infinite money, new Blizzaks every fall would be nice.

Edited:
I took a quick glance at the Tire Rack site. Steel wheels for $70.00. Three different alloy wheels discounted to $95 to $99. I personally don't like the look of steelies with no wheel covers on my car for 5 months. I'd go with the closeout-priced $99 Axis Sport XO.
 
#22 ·
Thread moved to correct forum.
 
#23 ·
I always buy dedicated winter tires/wheels. For last winter I bought 17" steelies from Tire Rack and mounted 215/65/17 General Arctic Altimax tires. I should get 4 winters out of this set of tires. For driving up and down severe mountain passes on a daily basis, this setup never let me down last winter. I chose not to install the TMPS, so I deal with a light that gets a piece of tape over it for 5 months a year. I check the tire pressure weekly as I have been doing for close to 30 years and have never has a problem.
I throw the winter set on in the first week of November and they stay on until around May 1. With my cordless impact and beefy floor jack, it takes about 20 minutes to complete including torquing the lugs nuts to factory specs.
All season tires work fine in many climates, just not here with lots of hills and snow. I would highly recommend winter tires, I have friends who have sent me pictures of the lake effect snows you guys get.
 
#24 ·
Well... to save the OEM wheels for the winter (calcium, salt, sand, POTHOLES!) here's what will go very well with the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2
 

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#25 · (Edited)
Agree going down an inch in wheel diameter on another set of winter dedicated rims gives more tyre brand options.
Run blizzaks 205/60/16s (gen 2 wheel size) on my gen 3.0R which normally runs 215/60/17s

Blizzaks here in NZ are cheaper and more readily available and work well on our non salted (gritted instead in shaded ice prone areas) icy roads in the South.

ps When Blizzaks get down to 1/8 inch (3 mm) - leave them on and run then out in Spring / early summer. (ie at end of 3rd winter with a set of tyres usually)

Just had unseasonally late 6 to 8 inches of snow falling last week.


Home :D
 
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#27 ·
To me, the biggest advantage to winter tires is not snow grip, but ice grip. The road I drive to work will get wind blown snow and as the snow blows across the road and cars driving down the road, the drifting snow gets pounded into black ice and the road is super slick like the ice at intersections. The grip difference between regular all season tires and winter only tires on ice is huge.
 
#28 ·
I just joined so I can post on this. This summer I replaced my 08 Altima with a 15 2.5 OB. Thankfully the ws80 blizzaks will fit the new car. Snow tires make an incredible difference here in Wisconsin. With the altima, I was putting about 3k miles on a month on the highway. They saved my butt so many times. It was also fun pulling out when the lights turn green and leaving nearly every other vehicle in the opposite lane behind. Studded tires are illegal here.

My two cents, true winter tires are invaluable. They'll be on any vehicle I own. (Wisconsin winters are a lot of snow, not too much ice)
 
#30 ·
TPMS: if you can live with the TPMS light being on, you don't have to install sensors in your winter tires. Works fine on my 2016. If you do install TPMS, get the second set cloned to your OEM set and then you won't have to have the system reset every time you switch and pay the dealer.

Wheels: I agree about going down to 17". Not because it's necessarily cheaper, but because the higher aspect ratio gives you more "meat" between your rim and potholes.

Keep your eyes on Craigslist for used tires and rims. Quite often people sell a car and then have no use for the tires that fit it.

I put Michelin xIce snows on my 2016 OB last season and they were great. Can't compare them to the OEM tires in the snow, though.
 
#31 ·
I ran stock wheels and tires on my 16' Outback limited and despite the less than favorable reviews I read, it did ok. I've had Subaru with snow tire setups in the past so I know how good it can do. Even in the blizzard earlier this year, it did fine. However, I did bite the bullet and buy 17" wheels and the new blizzak DMV-v2's which I'm looking forward to using. Playing it extra safe with my wife and 3 year old.
 
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#33 ·
My Blizzak DMV-2s mounted on 17" steel wheels gives my the added 'mechanical grip' I need to avoid the car in front of me (with all season tires) doing 360 spins into the oncoming lanes of traffic to eventually 'beach' into the opposite lane snow bank facing the wrong way. Sure, keep your all season tires on, I'm good with that. I have dedicated snow tires.
 
#34 ·
Got about 6" of snow - and air temp is -2.....just took the new Nokian Hakka 7's out for their inaugural run in the snow. HOLY MACKEREL! been driving this car for almost 12 years, and I never thought the winter confidence could get any better....until now. Most impressive is the STOPPING. I hit a patch of hard pack, going downhill....made sure their were no cars around....and slammed on the brakes. Not a single slip.....all the way to dead stop. Then mash the gas....going uphill....again, not a single slip.
My wife has always made fun of me for taking the car out in snow and ice on purpose....it's like going snowmobiling, I say
 
#35 ·
maybe next time you have a unscientific braking contest with @traildogck and his cooper studded. 30mph slam on brakes, on any 2" of local slop. pull out the tape measure and measure the skid.

(post it up, ...I got cooper studded too).
 
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