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06 outback h6 head gasket leaking oil and coolant

16K views 30 replies 8 participants last post by  egirard 
#1 ·
Hi guys
I bought a 06 H6outback four months again. The car had done around 110,000km and it had aservice at a local shop at that time as part of the sale. no mention of HG issue then. I have only done 600km since then. I tookit to the dealership a couple of days ago for a service and was told the carwas not worth servicing as HGwas leaking oil and coolant. They quoted $2800 for a three day job. <o:p></o:p>

I took it to a local mechanic for a second opinion. Hehoisted the car up and had a look up from the bottom. He said he could see atiny amount of coolant leak but said it was nothing that would warrant the jobto replace HG. He also checked the dipstickand coolant and said it all looked fine. He noted there was a small amount ofresidue collected in the oil cap butsaid it was not a concern. Hesaid this is not how HG fails and recommend monitoring it over the nextfew services instead of doing HG now. <o:p></o:p>

I also got a coupleof other quotes. The flagship subura here in Melbourne, Australia quoted $5500 for threeweek job (I assume this involves machining the head and block?). One independentSubaru specialist quoted $6000, but said it’s not worth doing on H6. Anotherquoted $4000. <o:p></o:p>

Could I please get you guys’ view on the following? <o:p></o:p>

1. whatshould I do next? I assume the firstquote I got from dealership ($2800) does not include machining the head? Questionis how can they tell the head does not need machining without pulling out theengine? <o:p></o:p>

2. Is HG an issue that develops slowly or can it failabruptly as potentially in my case (assuming dealerships diagnosis is accurateand there was no issue four month ago at the time of the previous service). Ishould mention also that the previous owner has been using standard unleaded(RON 91) rather than recommended premium (Ron 95 plus), although SubaruAustralia appears to suggest it is ok to use unleaded in H6 Between Services Maintenance fuel type affect life span of HG? <o:p></o:p>

3. Both the dealership and the local shop noted HG is not acommon issue for H6. But the dealership did say they have done a few H6recently which seems to be consistent with what I have read some people aresaying on the internet that H6s are now starting to blow their HGs. Is thisconsistent with what you have observed?
<o:p>Many thanks!</o:p>
<o:p>mike</o:p>
 
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#2 ·
the octane should not make any difference in head gaskets,

.... lower octane in these gives mildly slower performance, and maybe some worse gas (petro) mileage.

_____

EZ30D and your EZ30R typically leak oil from the valve cover(s) and it drips down on the head gaskets. one of the reasons to get the car on a lift (which you have done), clean it up with degreasers and look for where it is actually leaking from.


@lockmedic can you remember anyone with a EZ30R needing head gaskets done at 68,000 miles (110,000km)? I guess anyone could have a prick of a previous owner that let one overheat repeatedly on low coolant and get a leaky head gasket.

and such low miles? @borodin is this a urban car that has been run like a taxi cab with lots of idling and little on the odometer?

did the subaru dealer or any of the shops ask if "subaru coolant conditioner" is in the coolant mix? It does stop minor coolant leaks.
(it is a british product relabeled by subaru = "Holt's Radweld" ... a happy little 4.4oz bottle of brown goo... that fills in some pin hole leaks and conditions the rubber seals in the cooling system.)

did the dealer or any of the shops discuss a new OEM thermostat or a OEM radiator cap,...a OEM radiator cap is important as if one has one that is old or not of the right pressure it could make for some odd leaking. (subaru wants it in all cars, it does not clog anything, like some idiot miracle cures).
 
#3 ·
Thanks Egleeye!
The car is almost 10 years old although the mileage is pretty low (yes 110,000km or around 70,000 miles). It has been regularly serviced since new and I imagined has had a balanced city/freeway driving (it was a one owner car). The mechanic did the previous service has been looking after the car for the past few years and prior to that the car was serviced at a dealer (based on info in the log book).

No, no one mention the Subaru coolant or OEM. I think the motorists in the US generally get better deals (in terms of warranty etc) than other countries.

The dealer noted HG is a common issue for 2.5L but they have recently done a few H6.
Would it be worthwhile going ahead with the repair?
 
#4 ·
hold on for more detailed responses then mine, this is a big repair, and it may get no worse then you are right now for a long long time. (just don't let it overheat at all).

the ones the dealer has probably been seeing were early EZ30D cars. something they may have fixed in the machining process in the first year.

are there any bubbles in the coolant over flow jug? (if there is these should be tested to see if there are any exhaust gasses in them,...the tester it the same probe they stick up the exhaust).

maybe @grossgary @cracklincrotch or @west_minist could remember the member or a link on someone that had actually had a similar EZ30R with leaks.

west_minist is actually a tuner with some worldwide cred,...

and he or someone like him could see some correction for a head gasket leak in the numbers on a log of how the car is running,...a good shop that deals with lots of computers can also see it.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...4122-reading-flashing-your-ecu-dummies-2.html


______

did any of the shops mention internal leaking?

and the alternative to doing head gaskets is getting a used engine,..be it a local aussie market one out of a yard or used parts warehouse, ....or a Japanese Domestic Market one,...(JDM). etheir way make sure it is the EZ30R 2004-2008 engine,...and not the slower EZ30D 2000-2003 engine.
 
#5 ·
thanks. no shops mention internal leaks.. I haven't experienced any overheating so far but I have only done 600km since I purchased it about 4 months ago. I have done a couple of 100km freeway trips with the rest being mainly start and stop type of short trips. my concern is driving with coolant leaks may damage the motor causing more costs for repair. I considered taking it to a third workshop but wonder if I will ever get an honest diagnosis from anywhere..
btw I did speak to the mechanic that performed the previous service before buying the car and he said everything was fine.
 
#6 ·
I would see if you could get a 3rd opinion. As far as in an independent Subaru specialty shop. I also think that working with a tuner can be very beneficial.

Ed @ XRT offers this service...

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...agnostic-troubleshooting-support-service.html

I know he is very willing to work with anyone in varying capacities. Most, if not all of the tuning work he has done with me has been diagnostic. We are both waiting to make sure Frank is healthy to throw down on.

I am very happy with the work we have done...and despite all of my crazy work...I have no boost. And I am happy about that, happy to make sure Frank is super healthy 1st. She's blown 2 turbos and 1 block...because she was not well cared for.

This Monster will be, Ed makes sure. Maybe he can help. His email is in his signature. Tell him tdck sent you. maybe I'll get a ROM comp'd LOL.
 
#8 ·
18L/100km? I've had as bad as 19.5L/100km in winter. I don't know how cold cold gets in your parts so I couldn't say if that's reasonable or not.

I've not heard of an external leak, oil or coolant, caused by failed head gaskets on an 3.0R. I would suspect the oil cooler gasket leaking all over everything making it look like an oil leak. If any coolant lines, associated clamps, or rad are leaking that can blow across the bottom of the engine.

What I'd do first, since external leaks don't hurt the car, is clean/degrease the bottom of the engine. That way you can see the source of the coolant and oil easier. It's also cheap to free to do.

Second, if there is no Subaru coolant conditioner in the engine now get some and put it in. It will fix 90% or more external coolant leaks via head gaskets permanently. It's also cheap.

Third, watch for the oil leak to reappear. It's either the valve cover gaskets, oil cooler gasket, or both. Very cheap relative to a new-to-you engine.

Put premium fuel in that car. Even if it's cold you'll get closer to 15-16L/100km in the dead of a Canadian winter. Your car is overdue due for spark plugs (NGK ILFR-6B) and new accessory belt pulley bearings (PN 6203-2RSJ)
 
#9 ·
thanks for advice - it is extremely helpful!! its not that cold down here in Oz, ie generally above 0 in the middle of winter with occasional readings of -5 to 0.

both the dealer and the independent shop noted coolant leaks. The mechanic at the independent workshop even pointed the coolant leak to me when the car was raised. A small amount of crystallized coolant was visible when looking up from underneath the car. The dealer also noted oil leaks, which the other shop didn't mention. So it sounds like coolant leak is more of a problem than oil leaks in my case.

Not long after I dropped off the car, the dealer rang me to say the car was not worth servicing as there was a HG leak. This left me with the impression that the repair must be done quite urgently. now that sounds like it may not necessarily be the case given what you guys said.

Ok I will inquire about the Subaru coolant conditioner.
 
#10 ·
one more thing, the dealer did acknowledge HG failure is more common among 2.5L but said they have done a few 3.0L recently. I inquired with another independent Subaru specialist workshop that told me it would cost $6k to do the HG on a 3.0L compared to about $3k for 2.5L, and I should just get rid of the car!
 
#11 ·
Wow. I can't believe this stuff happens.

You don't have any problems.

External coolant leak = change the coolant and add the Subaru coolant conditioner.
I'd have a mechanic do it, not the Subaru dealership. Follow the directions on the bottle.

Oil leak:
1. your mechanic didn't say anything so it's likely benign
2. take a picture under the car and we can see it
3. monitor oil use over 3,000 miles - this will verify how much oil it's loosing (if any). It's often negligible or no big deal.
4. oil is usually valve cover or oil cooler gaskets - though a dealer should know the difference, obviously they were trying to price you into a new car. Do you act like you want a new car when you go into the dealer?! LOL wow, what a crazy recommendation.

That said - they do ocassionally fail - but you'll have overheating or air/bubbling pushing into the overflow tank, not external issues. I'm prepping a 2006 H6 for headgaskets right now, pull engine today or tomorrow.

Are prices typically higher down there - different market/currency?

Dealerships won't resurface the heads - but they *must* be resurfaced IMO - having done the resurfacing myself they always have high and low spots. Testing them is a waste of time as they don't crack, warp, or have issues. But it's frankly stupid to not resurface the heads for flatness *and* finish (proper RA value) on an engine known to blow headgaskets.

All dealers have relationships with a local shop that will resurface. The second problem is the machine shops will say "We can't warranty the heads unless we do a full valve job, pressure test, resurface for $800". Well that's a waste because all you need is a $50 - $100 resurface. If you tell the machine shop you don't want a warranty and just need it resurfaced they will do the resurface only. But because the dealer is the third party sometimes they'll use this as an excuse to price you out of the resurfacing - "It's going to cost $800" the dealer will say. "They can't unless they do the whole thing - it's out of our hands, that'st he shops policy" they will continue to stupidly say.

Best bet is to see if Subaru will let you take the heads to a machine shop or call the machine shop they deal with personally and explain to them what you want exactly.
You can call a dealer and just ask the service dept "What machine shop do you use - i'm looking for a machine shop for automotive work", I've done that before when I'm in a new or unfamiliar area. They gladly tell you. Then call the machine shop yourself for whatever you need.

I've never run into these issues before personally - they're always helpful to me, but I've seen it happen to others and it sounds like you're dealing with a rather untrusty dealership.

But hey - sounds like you won't need it anyway!
 
#12 ·
And the most important lesson so far - might want to avoid that dealer like the plague in the future.

Do you think that dealer is overall like that - or you just got a bad service writer/advisor?

I'd almost call the manager and ask what is going on and if this is routine "service" to expect from that dealer.
 
#13 ·
Thanks! The guy I dealf with is the service manager! He said he was not trying to rip me off as he could have just gone ahead and done the service.

So am I correct to understand 3.0l only leak externally not internally? I have not experienced overheating or air bubbles in coolant tank, but I dont do a lot of driving.

Outback 3.0r comes in a price range of A$36000-56000. A$ is about $0.72 now having dropped about 30% in the past year ot so.
 
#14 ·
Even if it does turn out that you have a catastrophe on your hands, and you don't, but if you do, you can put a used engine in for much much much much less money.

I hear you on the value of a A$ versus a US$. Same with me here. CA$ with about $0.72 US$ right now too for all the same reasons.
@grossgary may have seen an H6 with an external coolant and/or oil leak. But I've never heard of one. Oil cooler gasket, yes. Valve cover gasket, yes. Spark plug tube gasket, yes. But not an external head gasket leak. That doesn't mean it's not possible. Do what Grossgary said to before spending on anything else.
 
#16 ·
no. what is in the pictures on all wheel drive auto is a idiot miracle product that has clogged up the radiator. (and they do not guess-estimate what exactly the product is).

the subaru coolant conditioner comes in a 4.4oz bottle. ....this vs. the 320 oz in the rad system.

....shake the bottle: pull 5 oz out of the neck of the cold radiator,...put it in the radiator (not the overflow tank), run the car. let it cool completely and then open the radiator and take any residue off the inside of the cap.

 
#17 ·
I'd order the Subaru stuff - it's made for, required, quantified for, and installed under their warranty. It's $2.50, no compelling reason to deviate from something that has 10's of thousands (or 100's of thousands) of statistically robust results over the past 15 years.

H6's do leak externally - nothing as prominent as the EJ25 counterparts though - some vague green crusties - as I said CNY_Dave had it years ago on his and so have others. He posted pictures somewhere. It's rare, very benign, and rarely are H6's headgaskets replaced because of it (well unless the dealers scare you into it)> LOL
 
#19 ·
I'll repeat my step 3 above - monitor oil level over 500, 1,000, 3,000, and 5,000 miles. You can do it over 5,000 if you know it's not leaking much, I'm just throwing in lower numbers because I have no idea - I can't see it. After the first oil change or two you'll get a feel for if it's using any oil and how much.

Post back your findings here if you have any questions.

Replacing the PCV valve can lessen crankcase pressure and ocassionally can mitigate oil leaks. They're cheap and easy to do, might not be a bad idea to just do it now.
 
#21 ·
Got the car back. The mechanic took a closer look when the car was raised.he pointed out two leaks. An oil leak on the drivers side (rhs in australia) and a coolant leak on the passenger side.both very minor. He said he has seen coolant sweeating on other outback going on for yesrs without progressing much. He said its certanly not worth doing the hg. I will take it back to him, instead of the dealer in future! Btw he said the subaru coolant condition is not widely used here.
 
#20 ·
Forgive me for asking and you repeating. Sometimes I dont like reading through threads to get the exact issue going on and very busy, but just a quick read you are seeing coolant.

If you had a HG issue, you would notice that in many ways and those were highlighted.

See another mechanic and highlight a leak and say nothing more. get it fix.

If I am wrong, sorry. Have a few trouble cars that takes up my time and I am very very very happy to say those customers are listening to me and resolving those issues bit by bit.
 
#22 ·
When I had my 01 VDC 6 cyl. at 166K the valve cover gaskets started to leak. While I had the dealer replace them I had them replace the plugs because there was no labor charge on them. The plugs were in for 106K and I did not have them replaced sooner because the engine was running great and pulling strong.
 
#28 ·
took me a couple of tries to post the photos. the first one shows the coolant leak on the passenger side (LHS). the second shows the oil leak on the driver's side. they are a bit out of focus so not sure how much you guys can make of them. cheers
 
#30 ·
Hi Guys, just a quick report back and also an unrelated question.

Have used the recommended stuff and had the car checked just recently - no leaks! (although haven't done a lot of Ks during this period)

New Question - recently I have noticed a funny noise when the car (2006 H6 outback auto with about 110k kms on the clock) goes from a full stop. It occurs only once after the car is turned on - when I apply foot on gas and car goes from 1st to 2nd gear the first time from a full stop. If I do not apply gas and the car is in 1st gear, it will go at a low speed without making any noise). It does not make this noise when reserving out of drive way either. but if I shift to drive and push the accelerator, then 1 or 2 seconds later you hear this sound). However it only makes this sound once and does not make this on any later occasions when the car goes through the same motion, eg when car starts from full stop after a red light. It will however occur again if the car is turned off and back on again and goes through the same process.

The noise is a quick and low one, less than half second. It is not a grinding, whining or knocking sound. It reminds a bit like the sound you hear when your physio cracked your back, except the sound is kinda metallic. I was suspecting transmission but not sure why it cannot be reproduced when car goes from 1st to 2nd again, unless the car is turned off and on again.

Any ideas??

finally merry Xmas guys!!!
 
#31 ·
Hey - I have a 2004 LL Bean H6. The dealer just informed me that it's leaking from head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, and timing chain cover. Also, the timing chain is rattling. They quoted me $8k for a new engine - LOL. I put some Blue Devil oil stop leak in the crankcase and am planning on putting in some Subaru Cooling System Conditioner. Any other thoughts? Car has 166k on it and I want to get 200k on it before I retire it.
 
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