? on unique head gasket case

[mojoman]

I bought this '97 outback 2.5 auto with 180K...the head gaskets are now leaking...now the head gaskets were done 10,000 miles ago...I contacted the shop and was advised they used felpro gaskets for the job...they also replaced the rad timing belt etc but see no water pump on the invoice...now my question/s...will I be able to reuse the intake gasket and the other gaskets or will I need to replace them as well...I already have the OEM head gaskets , rad cap and thermostat...I'm supposing the water pump has a weep hole to verify its condition???....this job will start in a week or 2....appreciate all responses


mojo

[grossgary]

not the first fel pro headgaskets i've heard of failing.

don't reuse intake manifold gaskets.

exhaust manifold gaskets can be reused if they're subaru - aftermarkets are hit or miss. they're really easy though so you can always replace later.

valve cover and spark plug hole gaskets - i would only reuse if you know for certain they were replaced.

i'd replace the water pump but honestly the Subaru EJ water pumps do not fail that often and "usually" give signs if they do, i say usually loosely since i've seen so few water pump failures on EJ engines, it's hard to really make any definitive statements on small samples.

i'd install new spark plugs, they're so cheap it's nice to have them done on such a difficult motor.

i'd have the heads resurfaced since it's failed twice.

having the valves adjusted would be a good idea, but it's an annoying procedure on this car, particularly difficult, nearly impossible in the vehicle. most folks just don't do it due it's difficulty and there are ocassional burnt exhaust valves as low as 140,000 miles. rare - but it happens so worth the extra effort considering all the work you're putting into it and that you probably want to keep it a long time.

[RobLog]

Assuming that you don't want to go back in there again for another 95k miles, I'd go ahead and replace the WP. Even if it's OK now, it may not last until the next timing belt change.

With the heads back from the machine shop, you can reassemble them on the workbench and check/adjust valve clearances fairly easily. You will need to remove the cams/lifters again before installing the heads back on the block, and then recheck valves one more time before buttoning everything up.

My HGs went at 180k and 12 of the 16 valves were out of spec. The engine was a lot quieter afterwards.

Other things to do while you're in there besides what grossgary mentioned:

- reseal engine oil pump, including O-ring
- replace front main oil seal
- be prepared to replace all TB pulleys, tensioner, and belt tension adjuster unless you know this has already been done.
- have the radiator thoroughly checked out for possible replacement ... oil/exhaust gases in the coolant create a paste like substance which can and will clog it up ... leading to more overheating.
- replace the half-moons on the heads. Part#/Desc: 11051AA070 Plug Cylinder Head. There are four of them, availability is dealer only.

Assuming you or your mechanic is going to pull the engine (recommended):
- consider resealing the engine oil pan if it shows any sign of leakage (rare).
- replace oil separator plate ... factory original is plastic and often leaks after overheating. Replacement one is steel and will last.
- replace rear main oil seal, but only if leaking.

If the engine has overheated badly, for an extended period, and/or multiple times, it also means the the trans probably overheated as well, so consider renewing the ATF with several drain-and-fills.

P.S.: I used Fel-Pro HGs on my car and have not experienced any problems. The repeat failure on your engine may have been due to other factors, such as not resurfacing the heads, overheating caused by a clogged radiator or weak cooling system, and/or poor workmanship by the previous shop. Even the factory original graphite coated HGs, which everyone agrees are POS, last 100k+ miles.

[mojoman]

thanks guys...this job may be bigger than me...I'll ponder a tad...



mojo

[RobLog]

It's a big DIY job for a first timer ... but it's been done before. IMHO, one needs time (lots), patience, organization, and the ability to read, comprehend, and follow directions. Having tools helps ... Harbor Freight can be your friend for low-priced but decent tools. Oh, and this time of year: a warm and dry place to work.

If you haven't already, pick up a copy of the Haynes manual for our cars ... it'll give you a good idea of what's involved.

[mojoman]

thanks guys,,....so how hard is it to pull the engine????

[RobLog]

Try this:
Engine Removal Thread

[mojoman]

Originally Posted by RobLog

Try this:
Engine Removal Thread

thanks for that...I've already R&R'd the tranny...so this should be almost the same...I kin do this...valves and cams are something I have never messed with...I'll have more questions when I finally get the parts and tools together....wifey sez prolly a month now...right in the middle of our Canadian winter...I love that gal....lol

[bstone]

Originally Posted by grossgary

i'd replace the water pump but honestly the Subaru EJ water pumps do not fail that often and "usually" give signs if they do, i say usually loosely since i've seen so few water pump failures on EJ engines, it's hard to really make any definitive statements on small samples.

I lost an engine last summer as my Subaru EJ water pump failed in the middle of nowhere. No fun. Replace it when due.

[canubaru]

Originally Posted by mojoman

thanks guys,,....so how hard is it to pull the engine????

i read through the removal process. great write up by the way. but i did not read any of the other posts in that thread . sorry if this has been said.

the Torque converter bolts are hard to get to. the space is tight. so i suggest removing the intake manifold before you pull the engine.

i did two engine swaps on late 90s outbacks and i left the intake in place. but on the 00 lego i removed the intake. and with it out of the way the TC bolts are a breeze. and the manifold is 8 bolts plus some wire harness connections and some small coolant hoses under the throttle body.

plus, either the engine you are pulling is going to the scrap dealer or you are doing the head gaskets. in either case it is not extra work to remove the manifold before you pull the engine.

my .02 worth.

happy motoring.