'04 Headgasket

[heyhar]

I was under our '04 OBW 2.5, 87k miles to change the oil and once again deal with the rattling heat shields, and noticed the right side head gasket seam moist with an oil film. Not dripping or oozing, but moist and dirty. The left side has had the coolant leak, seemingly cured with Subie's Miracle in a Little Blue Bottle, but now there's the oil weep on the right. My daughter's '05 Legacy 2.5 was diagnosed with oil weep before the warranty ran out, and a dealer did it gratis. I was skeptical of it needing repair, and now I see it under my own.

I read in another post that Subaru is extending a head gasket warranty to 100k miles if BOTH fluids are leaking, but does it have to be the SAME HEAD? The coolant leak was documented by the dealer in October 2010, at about 75k miles, at which time they gladly let me BUY the little bottle of Holts, and install it myself. It has never overheated, and I actually suspected the leak by smelling the coolant, and found the leak with a radiator pressure tester. I figured I'd wait till 105k miles and have the HG's done while it's down for service with the timing belt, but with this latest problem, should I just move the timing belt service up sooner? Thanks to all for putting up with this long-winded rant!

[xvimbi]

Welcome to the HG club!

First, the coolant conditioner doesn't cure the issue, it treats the symptoms. The cause is leaky head gaskets, and you need to have them exchanged to cure the problem. When you do, make sure they are not putting in the same kind of head gasket they are taking out.

Second, contact Subaru of America and talk to them. The sooner the better. Document exactly what the current status is. Even if they won't cover it under the warranty, at least it's on file, and if anything more drastic would happen before you are out of the warranty period, you have a nice history.

SoA offered me $500 towards my head gasket job, and I have a car that is 11 years old but just below 100,000 miles. In any case, officially, it's out of warranty. They are nice to talk to and are trying to help customers out with this dreaded problem.

When you talk to them, explain, in friendly terms, what the issue is, that you've been an exemplary user who has all the service done at the required moment, and that you love your car and want to keep driving it for many more years to come. They will send you to a dealer who will properly diagnose the car and relay the information back to SoA. SoA will then call you back.

If they don't offer any assistance, you should step it up a notch, assuming you do have a case. Tell them that it's a shame a car that is otherwise so great would be plagued by such a well-known issue, and that you expect a company to stand behind their products. You might get lucky!

Good luck!

[highest_vision]

Wow. My car has 99,9xx miles and the driver side head has been leaking since 56k. Would have been nice to know this then. I have used about 16oz of coolant in 3 years, so I haven't been willing to do it.

[rockhopjohn]

The extended warranty was for 2000-2002 models, and extended warranty to 10 years or 100k miles if you could show that you'd been using the coolant conditioner before the leak occurred. It didn't apply to oil leaks, and it didn't apply to 2003+ models.

My 2004 started leaking at 71k mile, right before my 72k mile extended warranty expired. So mine was repaired under that warranty, but did have to pay the parts for a timing belt and oil pump re-seal, as well as the deductible on the warranty.

I wouldn't count on getting a lot of love from the dealer. Its possible you might get them to meet you in the middle because you've had HG issues previously, but that was the other head, so its hard to say.

[heyhar]

Last year when I smelled the coolant, I checked the overflow bottle, and it was down a bit. The radiator was full. A month later, we take a trip, I smell it again, bottle is empty, now radiator is down a bit. After the first sniff, I checked this board, and familiarized myself with the wonderful world of Subaru Head Gaskets!. My trip to the dealer-first problem ever with this car-and they tell me that my tiny leak isn't worth fixing at this point. They said they don't even want my money! I said fine, but now my problem is recorded, and if there's any goodwill that might come from Subaru, I've made them aware of a problem.

Did I shoot myself in the foot as far as trade-in value with this car. Value on the street or at another brand dealership shouldn't be affected, but now I'm in Subie's database with a problem, that to their knowledge hasn't yet been resolved. And as far as revised head gaskets, how can I tell? Would a dealer automatically use a better one, or just a dusty old one that's been on the shelf? Or stick to my JEEPS, where head gaskets are the least of my worries?

[xvimbi]

Originally Posted by heyhar

Last year when I smelled the coolant, I checked the overflow bottle, and it was down a bit. The radiator was full. A month later, we take a trip, I smell it again, bottle is empty, now radiator is down a bit. After the first sniff, I checked this board, and familiarized myself with the wonderful world of Subaru Head Gaskets!. My trip to the dealer-first problem ever with this car-and they tell me that my tiny leak isn't worth fixing at this point. They said they don't even want my money! I said fine, but now my problem is recorded, and if there's any goodwill that might come from Subaru, I've made them aware of a problem.

Good move!

Did I shoot myself in the foot as far as trade-in value with this car. Value on the street or at another brand dealership shouldn't be affected, but now I'm in Subie's database with a problem, that to their knowledge hasn't yet been resolved. And as far as revised head gaskets, how can I tell? Would a dealer automatically use a better one, or just a dusty old one that's been on the shelf? Or stick to my JEEPS, where head gaskets are the least of my worries?

DO NOT DESPAIR!

There are main-stream cars where it costs several thousands to get head gaskets exchanged. It's not such a big on a Subie that otherwise is an excellent car. Besides, other cars have systemic issues too, so it's not so uncommon. In any case, if you like your car and it fulfills your needs, the repairs are definitely worth it.

Regarding trade-in, you might be a lot better off to have it fixed and then sell it, compared to a potential buyer finding out about a $2,000 job during a pre-sale check.

Check out these two links:

Subaru Head Gasket Problems Explained. - Seattle Subaru Repair

A Better Subaru 2.5l Head Gasket in Seattle - Seattle Subaru Repair

It's not the final, authoritative text, but there isn't one anyway. What you will read, though, is a lot of real-life experiences with Subie head-gasket issues. Grab a good bottle, though, it's a long read.

Cheers!
MM

[heyhar]

Wow-Tons of good info on those links! I found three Subie specialty garages in my area who are willing to do the job for $1200-1500. That includes having the heads checked and shaved as needed, and the timing belt and water pump service. I was fully expecting double that, as has been stated on various threads on this forum. Two of the three shops use the 6 STAR MLS three layer head gasket, like All Wheel Drive Auto in the Seattle area suggests. And, this is with the engine out of the car, which I'm hearing the dealers don't like to do.

All in all, a pain in the arse, but not as formidable as first thought... Thanks to all, Ray.

[xvimbi]

That price is almost too good to be true.

When you say "timing belt and water pump service", do you mean replacing these items or only checking them? The whole kit runs between about $250-400, depending on which one you choose. At this point (87K miles) you could just simply replace all of the timing components. No sense in replacing one and not the other. Make sure they are putting an OEM thermostat back in.

There is a bunch of other things you could consider, such as getting a new seal for your oil pan and new fuel lines at the manifold. The fuel lines only cost a few bucks but would be very expensive to replace if they needed to be replaced at a later point (and they will need to be replaced).

It'll add up, but you should be getting a car back that's good for another 200,000 miles. Will probably run better then new. LOL. Money very well spent if you like the car.

[heyhar]

The belt and pump will be replaced, and I will suggest the fuel rail. All the shops I talked to said I still have some time, as the oil seepage has just started. I do check fluid levels often, and I figure I'll wait until after snow season, as my wife does need the car for work, and I don't need my restored '92 Cherokee driving around on salty roads. All of the mechanics I spoke with were very positive about the outcome, as I was apprehensive facing a repair that I didn't have the courage to try myself. Between my son and myself, we've done some amazing stuff with our Cherokees, and working on cast iron engines doesn't faze me. But, an aluminum engine in our 'good' car is too steep a learning curve right now. But, now that we're getting an education with Subies, I think maybe an Impreza/WRX rebuild may be our next project.

Thanks for all the input guys, and I'll try to keep you up to date as this saga progresses.

[heyhar]

Well, I just got the Subie back. Took it last Saturday, got it this Saturday, head gaskets and timing belt/water pump and T-stat, all for $1459 plus the Guv'ner's cut. A little two-bay garage in a little town, but all he does is Subies and Saabs. They use the Six-Star three piece gasket, and claim to have excellent luck with them.

He loves to find a 9-2x at the auctions, a WRX that hasn't been beaten! I think next time I need a car, that's the way to go...