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Old 10-14-2007, 09:52 PM   #51 (permalink)
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How often do suppose to change your TF my mechanic said never and he said most people do it when their transmition is going and it makes it even worst.
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Old 10-16-2007, 08:04 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need to air bleed control valve when replacing ATF in later model years?

Quote:
Originally posted by plain OM
Does the simple drain and refill described in this DIY thread apply to later model 4-speed ATs?

In the Automatic Transmission Fluid replacement section of the MY07 service manual (pages 4AT-25 and 26) there is a requirement to "7) Bleed the air of control valve." after the fluid is refilled. The 4EAT Phase II training manual (module 304, updated January 2007) also notes (on page 58) the requirement for the air bleed procedure with a simple drain and fill, as follows:

“Whenever the valve body of a Direct 4EAT is removed or transmission fluid drained from the sump, the air must be bled from the valve body. You can accomplish this with the help of the NSM or Select monitor III. You will need to follow the specific procedure in the appropriate service manual for the year and model Subaru you are servicing. Make sure the transmission fluid is less than 140 degrees F. before performing the air bleed procedure." This seems to apply when doing the simple drain and refill described in this DIY thread.

The air bleed procedure is set out on page 4AT-55 and makes use of the Subaru Select Monitor for certain operations.

I believe the Direct 4EAT is the 4 speed automatic transmission used at least since MY2005 in North American Legacys and Outbacks. Has anyone had experience draining and refilling the ATF in a Direct 4EAT? What about this air bleeding requirement?
Is the repair manual available for subaru outback 3L 2003?
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:58 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Is using the "roundabout" method (vs. complete drain) alright when switching to synth atf?
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Old 01-09-2008, 05:33 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Default The fluid pan

Okay, I've got a leak around the tranny fluid pan. The dealer tells me there isn't a gasket for the tranny fluid pan, just a silicone sealant. This sounds simple enough to change, but I've never actually used sealant in place of a gasket. Any caveats or suggestions to make sure it goes right the first time? Thanks. Sorry if this was a bit off the topic.
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Old 01-09-2008, 06:17 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Hi eszpresszo and welcome! Your '00 Outback has the phase II 4EAT. Right on, there is no gasket on this one, just sealant. I can look up the exact sealant if desired.

Are you sure it is leaking from around this gasket? There are other sensors and such that go into the trans case and the trans dipstick, etc., where leaks can be coming from, then running down onto the pan, thus making it look like it is leaking from the seal between the trans and pan.

If it really is the pan sealant leaking there, it might be worth trying to find exactly where it is leaking from, cleaning it thoroughly, and smearing a bunch of sealant over that area. The ATF isn't really under any pressure there.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:17 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Whoa Porcupine! You made some good points there about other points of tranny fluid leaks! I should have thought about the possbility of a leak around a sensor, as I had that problem with another car I once owned - a '66 Rambler American!
I did take my wagon to a drive-through lube place and their greaser said that there was a leak around the tranny fluid pan. I have learned to careful about those places, since they don't hire real mechanics and they wanted $160 to change it all out. I'll just have to jack it up look carefully underneath. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:35 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Excellent! '66 Rambler American

Sealant list: The 4eat phase II appears to be Threebond 1217B or the good 'ol Permatex Ultra Grey (third up from the bottom in the list below).
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:02 AM   #58 (permalink)
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just got through doing a drain and fill on the trans, wanted to add something and reiterate some others.

i have the filter on the side so if you don't this may not apply

as far as replacing the filter, if the engineers didn't think it needed to be replaced, why did they use a spin on filter ? a pan filter would make more sense if it did not need replacement.

anyway, i drained the pan, left the plug out and pulled the filter. let it drain for 10 minutes and it was barely dripping. on my quads i lift one side and get more oil out so i figured why not. i jacked the passenger side up until the front wheel was just off the ground and fluid started streaming out the filter hole and more dripped out of the drain hole.

brucey said he got 4.5 quarts out and that sounded about right. my trans was full when i started and it took just over 5.5 to refill it .... so i guess you get another quart out if you jack it up. so if it takes 9.8 that's over 60% of the fluid out for just a drain and fill , not bad.

as far as refilling it i noticed a couple things, first off, it is the most annoying car if ever dealt with refilling the trans. the dipstick/ filler tube is really hard to get at.

second, this is the only car i've had that you literally have to run it through the gears every time you add fluid to get an accurate reading. i'd add a pint and check it, way too high, run it through the gears and it drops back down. every other car i've had, once you get it to the bottom of the dipstick and run it thought the gears once, all you have to do is top it off and you're done.

third is false readings or "side creeping" on the stick, to some it may appear full but if you look at the stick, there will be spots that are devoid of fluid. when it's really at a level there will be a definite fluid line all across the stick and there will be no voids below that line. look at btoh sides of the stick, the back side will be totally covered but the top will not. it doesn't matter if there is fluid up above it or not, if there is no line all across and/or there are spots with no fluid on the stick below that line you do not have enough fluid in there.

it literally took me two hours to do it and i checked the fluid while filling no less than 20 times. some of this is because i started with 4 quarts and worked my way up and i ended up using 5.5

i used valvoline max life, it doesn't say synth on the front but if you read the back it says they use synthetic base oils so ..... close enough. drove it around a bit afterward and it does seem to shift a little smoother but that may be all in my head because it seemed fine before i did it.

so next time you do it, jack it up and get 6 qts of new fluid and personally i changed the filter and would suggest it. i get the filters at napa and they seem to work fine, i think they are about $20 there.
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:48 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote: as far as replacing the filter, if the engineers didn't think it needed to be replaced, why did they use a spin on filter ? a pan filter would make more sense if it did not need replacement.

That spin on filter on the 4eat phase II's is filtering the ATF right at the exit from the trans before heading to the trans cooler in the radiator. That is an excellent idea because it catches all the torque converter and other shreddings, rather than letting it get into the trans cooler and plug it up.

That screen filter in the 4eat phase I's is either the pump suction screen, or filters fluid on return from the cooler (not sure which), but it is not ideal. (The 4eat phase II also has this screen in addition.)
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:11 AM   #60 (permalink)
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i agree, point being....... if it doesn't need to be changed, why make it a changeable part ..... cheap insurance to change all filters and fluids imho.
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