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E85 Powered 3.6
Legionairre
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Car: 2010 Outback Limited, Gray
Posts: 35 |
Before you buy a 3.6R w/ 5 speed automatic...
…make sure your test drive includes a few trips through “the dead zone”. That nasty place where the driver says go, but the car says let’s wait a while. From a standstill there’s no problem, the engine responds as soon as you press the accelerator. Unfortunately that’s not the case when you brake or coast for a moment and then try to accelerate. In this case you press the accelerator and the engine is totally unresponsive for 1 to 1.5 seconds. It doesn’t seem to matter how far you press the pedal, 20% or 100%, the car is simply in a coma for that 1+ second. That may not sound like a long time but it feels like an eternity when you’re in the situation.
It seems to happen at any speed, but is probably most noticeable in the 5-15 MPH range, where you’re slowing to turn onto a busy street or negotiating intersections where you don’t have to (or choose not to) come to a complete stop before proceeding. If every day is a Sunday drive for you then you may not care or even notice this characteristic. If you’re at all impatient or in a hurry, driving this car in the city may make you totally insane.
Manual mode could use some improvement too. The paddle shifters and the little rev you get with each downshift is nifty, but the massive amount of slip from the torque converter greatly reduces engine braking and leaves you wondering what RPM the transmission is turning and when the next downshift should be. It might work well for winding mountain roads, but for city driving it kind of stinks.
Maybe Subaru will fix this (at least the throttle delay problem) with a future program update...
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10-02-2009 05:02 AM |
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b00001
Legionairre
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Austin, Tx
Car: 2010 Outback -White Pearl-3.6 Limited w/ Nav-XM-Puddle Lights-Factory Hitch-Wheel Arch Moldings-Splash Guards
Posts: 66 |
We hope both these issues are addressed soon with a update!!!!!
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10-02-2009 01:16 PM |
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NSFW
Recruit
Registered: Sep 2009
Location:
Car:
Posts: 24 |
I tried to get the 3.6 I test drove to display this problem and it wouldn't. Or I didn't seem to notice it. (and I'm terribly impatient)
The problems I noticed was the shimmy/balance vibrations on the steering wheel while driving on the highway and the passenger airbag not working when it should with an adult passenger in the car.
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10-02-2009 03:23 PM |
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davidmalek
Recruit
Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Chicagoland
Car: 08 Outback 2.5i
Posts: 18 |
We have the exact same problem with our 2008 Outback w/ 2.5 and 4 speed auto. By placing the transmission in 'sport' mode, we completely eliminate the problem, and the car responds immediately to the gas pedal.
__________________
Dave M
10 Pilot
08 Outback
05 Mustang
05 HD Electra Glide
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10-02-2009 03:53 PM |
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newbs
Legionairre
Registered: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Car:
Posts: 69 |
I've been experiencing the same issue in my 2-day old 2010 3.6R 5EAT Outback, and I agree that it seems to be a transmission issue. It feels like the car is in "neutral" for a second or two while the transmission is trying to find the right gear. I have also noticed a slight shudder at low speed when accelerating where it feels like the transmission is in too high a gear (like it is in 2nd or 3rd, when it should be in 1st or 2nd). I, too, hope that there is a fix for this.
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10-02-2009 08:26 PM |
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rpr
Recruit
Registered: Aug 2009
Location:
Car:
Posts: 20 |
There's another thread on this. Its not a transmission issue, Its a drive by wire PCM programming issue. There is at least one report from a poster that his dealer told him Subaru will be releasing a PCM update soon to address this. Let's hope this is true.
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10-03-2009 02:20 AM |
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E85 Powered 3.6
Legionairre
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Car: 2010 Outback Limited, Gray
Posts: 35 |
quote: Originally posted by NSFW
I tried to get the 3.6 I test drove to display this problem and it wouldn't. Or I didn't seem to notice it. (and I'm terribly impatient)
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I test drove a 3.6 twice and didn't notice it, probably because I was slowly pressing down the accelerator each time and subconsciously I must have assumed the pedal had some free play or something.
If you test another 3.6, get up to 35 mph and brake normally to 10 or 5 MPH, then quickly push the accelerator to 1/4 throttle and hold it there until the engine responds. You should notice something.
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10-03-2009 03:17 AM |
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GTScott
Bigfoot Expert
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Car: 2010 Cyprus Green OB 3.6R
Posts: 30 |
Add me to the list as well in my 2010 w/ 600 miles on it. I had mine in today getting the media hub installed and was told that they did not find anything out of the normal with the trans. I hope the PCM programming is the issue.
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10-04-2009 02:22 AM |
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eps105
Flying Cavalry
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Car: 2010 Outback 3.6R Ltd w/Navigation, trailer hitch, illiumination & puddle light kits, and wheel arches; Azurite Blue
Posts: 215 |
quote: Originally posted by GTScott
Add me to the list as well in my 2010 w/ 600 miles on it. I had mine in today getting the media hub installed and was told that they did not find anything out of the normal with the trans. I hope the PCM programming is the issue. | |
Count me in too. I got mine yesterday and because of this message board I was cognizant of the issue. It's definitely there, although very subtle. If I didn't already know, I would have thought that the tranny was just being very slow to knock down from 2nd to 1st when doing a rolling start.
Easiest to notice when doing things like idling slowly through a parking lot or accelerating after going over speed bump -- all around 5-10 MPH.
A few times I lurched uncomfortably, but I consider it more of an annoyance than a safety issue at this point, but regardless, once I hear a PCM flash fix is out, I'll be one of the first in line.
Other than that, I have no complaints about the new Outback. The ride is sublime and the fit and finish is first class.
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10-05-2009 02:16 AM |
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eps105
Flying Cavalry
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Car: 2010 Outback 3.6R Ltd w/Navigation, trailer hitch, illiumination & puddle light kits, and wheel arches; Azurite Blue
Posts: 215 |
OFFICIAL RESPONSE FROM SUBARU ON 3.6R THROTTLE ISSUE
I am cross-posting this on all of the related threads to make sure the word gets out about this -- see my suggestion at the bottom for each of you to contact Subaru....
I got an e-mail back from Subaru after submitting a complaint via webform. So, they're aware of the problem but wouldn't comment on if a fix is coming.... Here is the official response:
quote: | Thank you for contacting Subaru of America. I am sorry that your e-mail was prompted due to a concern with your vehicle. The dealer has advised you correctly that there has not been a technical service bulletin issued pursuant to throttle response. Our technical services department has been apprised of some similar concerns shared by fellow Subaru owners. In the event that a reprogramming becomes available, you will be notified via mail. Your dealer will also be notified in the event that a Technical Services Bulletin becomes available as well | |
Here was my submission:
quote: Hi there. I am a very satisfied owner of a shiny new Outback 3.6R Limited. The car is flawless except for a notable problem with the throttle response. This is not a defect specifically with my car but rather it appears to be a common issue across all 3.6R Outbacks discussed by many new owners on various Internet message boards, such as http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...&threadid=20048 .
Quite simply, the problem is that when accelerating from a ROLLING start (~5-20 MPH), there is NO throttle response for the better part of 1/2 - 1 second. Then, depending on how far the pedal is pressed, one can get lurched forward when the throttle does finally respond.
The response issue does NOT occur from a dead stop, but it DOES occur even if I am in manual mode and already in first gear. For these two reasons, I believe it is a throttle programming issue and not a transmission problem.
So I am writing you today to ask three questions:
1) Does SOA already know about this problem?
2) If so, is a solution (PCM, TCM update, etc.) being developed?
3) And if so, when is the fix expected to be released as a service bulletin?
I have reported this problem to my dealer's service department and he noted that they have no service bulletins in the system yet for this and do not know what is in the pipeline. That is why I am escalating this to you. Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide!! | |
I suggest that everyone experiencing this problem lets SOA know about it and maybe they will be more pressed to release a fix. Also, when you register your complaint with them using your VIN#, they will mail you when a service bulletin is released. The link is here: https://www.subaru.com/shopping-tools/contact-us.html --> Choose the "Vehicle Problem" option. They responded to me the same day.
Cheers,
Elliot
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10-09-2009 09:19 PM |
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Tasos
Recruit
Registered: Oct 2009
Location: houston
Car: OB 3.6 LTD
Posts: 9 |
3.6R hesitation
I purchased a 3.6R LTD one week ago. There is indeed some hesitation when trying to accelerate from low speeds as mentioned in other postings. When you try to overcome this hesitation, by stepping on the gas, the car thrusts forward. In heavy traffic, I fear that I am going to rear end the car in front of me. I hope that Subaru comes up with some solution to this issue.
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10-21-2009 06:25 AM |
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dovidan
Legionairre
Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Bellingham WA
Car: 93 Honda del Sol Si; 2010 Outback Ltd, w CVT & Nav
Posts: 64 |
Interesting string...
A similar problem was commonly reported in 2002 -2004 Audis 1.8T - with both the standard tiptronic AT & the CVT. We have an A4 with CVT & only experienced it from a dead stop. Once rolling 3-5 mph it has very good throttle response. I do not recall that Audi every came up with a solution & we learned to live with it. But we also do not try to squirt out into traffic with a narrow window of opportunity with this car. Otherwise the CVT & 1.8 turbo has been a great combo, returning highway MPG of 33-37.
Hopefully SOA will find a solution for what otherwise sounds like a great car.
Lord willing our A4 will sell in the next week or two & then we will order a 2.5i CVT OB as a replacement for our 03 Forester & 04 A4.
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10-22-2009 01:10 AM |
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mchristsen
Legionairre
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Southern California
Car: 2010 Outback 3.6R Limited w/Nav
Posts: 67 |
I have had my 3.6 Limited for 2 days now and have experienced the hesitation at low speeds. Usually it occurs after you are breaking and the car is almost at a complete stop, then you accelerate and there is a slight hesitation. Depending on how much your are wanting to accelerate, there will be a lurching of the car.
It seems like either the Drive by wire is waiting for something (Transmission to report a gear selected) ot the transmission is attempting to select a gear.
It is annoying, but I knew of the issue before buying, so I am confident that SOA will address the issue.
M
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10-22-2009 03:12 AM |
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eps105
Flying Cavalry
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Car: 2010 Outback 3.6R Ltd w/Navigation, trailer hitch, illiumination & puddle light kits, and wheel arches; Azurite Blue
Posts: 215 |
quote: Originally posted by mchristsen
I have had my 3.6 Limited for 2 days now and have experienced the hesitation at low speeds. Usually it occurs after you are breaking and the car is almost at a complete stop, then you accelerate and there is a slight hesitation. Depending on how much your are wanting to accelerate, there will be a lurching of the car.
It seems like either the Drive by wire is waiting for something (Transmission to report a gear selected) ot the transmission is attempting to select a gear.
It is annoying, but I knew of the issue before buying, so I am confident that SOA will address the issue.
M | |
mchristsen and tasos: If you haven't done so already, please be sure to use my instructions posted above to complain about this to Subaru.
Since it is a performance issue and not a "defect" per se, they may only be inclined to release a fix if enough customers complain about it.
Be sure to state how long the hesitation lasts, as a very slight hesitation is considered normal, especially if the transmission is downshifting. I'm still experiencing hesitation of almost 1 full second.
Thanks,
Elliot
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10-22-2009 05:02 PM |
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DerekH
Legionairre
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Car: 2010 Outback 2.5i Sport, 6MT
Posts: 96 |
Doesn't the Tribeca have the same engine, transmission and variable torque distribution?
If they didn't have a problem, I assume it's a difference in programming.
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10-22-2009 05:15 PM |
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mchristsen
Legionairre
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Southern California
Car: 2010 Outback 3.6R Limited w/Nav
Posts: 67 |
quote: Originally posted by eps105
mchristsen and tasos: If you haven't done so already, please be sure to use my instructions posted above to complain about this to Subaru.
Since it is a performance issue and not a "defect" per se, they may only be inclined to release a fix if enough customers complain about it.
Be sure to state how long the hesitation lasts, as a very slight hesitation is considered normal, especially if the transmission is downshifting. I'm still experiencing hesitation of almost 1 full second.
Thanks,
Elliot | |
Done. Posted a message today.
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10-22-2009 08:28 PM |
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mchristsen
Legionairre
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Southern California
Car: 2010 Outback 3.6R Limited w/Nav
Posts: 67 |
OK so the hesitation issue was on my mind while out driving today, so I decided to do some empirical tests.
Test 1 - slow motion/near stop in Drive, little/slow acceleration.
Slowed down to a near stop (as one would do in California) and then applied a little gas - there was little to know hesitation.
Test 2 - slow motion/near stop in Drive, quick axcceleration.
Slowed down to near stop and then applied quick acceleration. Car hesitated and then lurched forward, one time getting a "cluck" gear change from the transmission.
Test 3 - slow motion/near stop in Manual 1st gear, slow acceleration.
Slowed as before and applied slow gradual acceleration, no hesitation.
Test 4 - slow motion/near stop in Manual 1st gear, quick acceleration
Slowed again, applied some quick gas, little hesitation, car takes off.
Now I should try it in 2nd to see if there is a difference, but on the couple of instances in Drive, it seems that it was thinking about what gear it should be in before engaging the engine.
Now this is all based on my experience and opinion. If you are willing, try it yourself to see if there is a difference. Remember, be safe while doing any of these tests (don't want to accidently run into something/someone).
M
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10-22-2009 10:43 PM |
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bheinen74
Flying Cavalry
Registered: May 2009
Location: Iowa
Car: 85BRAT82BRAT92SVX92SS06outback
Posts: 114 |
the fix is to replace the transmission with updated solenoids inside, that is my guess.
under warranty of course. reason to not buy first year model, they are buggy.
__________________
85BRAT 4" lifted
83GL Wagon SOLD
92SVX
92SS sold
06 Outback with GW soon for sale pm me for price about 11k
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10-22-2009 11:39 PM |
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Somerset Max
Legionairre
Registered: Aug 2009
Location: United States
Car: '02 Outback 3.0 VDC
Posts: 83 |
quote: Originally posted by bheinen74
the fix is to replace the transmission with updated solenoids inside, that is my guess.
under warranty of course. reason to not buy first year model, they are buggy. | |
After my experience with a GM X-Car in its first year of production, I have learned the hard way to avoid the first year of production of ANY "clean-sheet" new car, even a Subaru.
Even though I had good experiences with my '97 Outback Limited, and even though I have had an even better experience with my '02 VDC, I decided to wait until the 2011 model year for reasons just like this.
Any make of car can have teething problems during its first year of production.
Hopefully when I buy a 2011 3.6 Limited, this whole issue will be ancient history.
__________________
Hope to buy a 2011 3.6R Limited next year!
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10-23-2009 12:48 AM |
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eps105
Flying Cavalry
Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Car: 2010 Outback 3.6R Ltd w/Navigation, trailer hitch, illiumination & puddle light kits, and wheel arches; Azurite Blue
Posts: 215 |
quote: Originally posted by Somerset Max
After my experience with a GM X-Car in its first year of production, I have learned the hard way to avoid the first year of production of ANY "clean-sheet" new car, even a Subaru. | |
The H6 powertrain is not a clean sheet at all. This engine/transmission combo has been used on the Tribeca for 2 years now, and was virtually dropped into the Outback with minor changes (only the gear ratios are different, IIRC).
IMHO, it is far more proven than the CVT, one of the excuses I used to convince my wife to let me get the H6!
I still feel this is a software issue, not a solenoid or anything else wrong with the transmission.
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10-23-2009 02:07 AM |
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Before you buy a 3.6R w/ 5 speed automatic...
