| ETC |
i know there are a few IT guys around here and i'm sure a few other people have bought laptops this year.
i'm doing some loan processing on the side and i need a laptop to hotdesk from my home office to another. programs aren't huge or complicated so it doesn't need to be a top of the line machine.
i've been looking in the $750 [on sale ] range and pretty much everything i've looked at can do what i want. my question is basically which manufacturer to go with and/where to buy ? .
i've been reading all the horror stories about trying to get help from manufacturers if there's an issue with the machine, same with stores. seems they all have their share of bad reviews but that's pretty much business as usual for all businesses.
i don't want to buy a $350- 700 warranty that doesn't seem to cover much anyway [the $700 one covers everything but i can also buy a new laptop for that price so what's the point]
anyway, what i've been looking at is;
dell 1525 or studio
hp - several similar
lenovo ideapad y510
gateway m 6843 or m6862
all are similar with t5750 processors [studio has 8100], 3-4 gigs of ram, 160-320 gig hard drives [160 is enough for me] , dvdrw drives [not sure about the slot drive on the studio, seems like stuck disc waiting to happen] , webcams , and similar ports [firewire, 2.0 usb, ethernet lan etc] . expresscard slot.
i know you usually get what you pay for but i'm not willing to go over a grand for something with the limited use i have for this.
any advice, experience or opinion is appreciated. don't need ot go into a long drawn out horror story [i've read plenty]. good or bad experience is plenty of info.
ps. leaning toward the lenovo because it just seems sturdier, doesn't have the shock protection of the thinkpads of old but definately more solid. |
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| blastoff99 |
This is pretty much an "I know someone who knows someone who..." answer, but I'll throw it out there anyway.
You might want to check out Dell Outlet. I know someone who knows someone who uses it all the time and has had perfect success with it. ;) My observations are that the prices are good, but depending on the sale at "regular" Dell, they may not be MUCH better than regular. The Outlet frequently has a whole bunch of the same thing (or nearly the same thing; awhile ago they had a lot of 1420s with the T5550 AND the big battery for about $600.)
Might be worth a look. |
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| Claymore |
I have had recent experience purchasing an HP laptop (I got the dv2000).
It has performed flawlessly, and was inexpensive (around $500) as it has the AMD chips. The only pain was the bundled software (MS Office, Norton) was 90-day eval versions - something to look out for no matter what you buy. |
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| onyxtape |
I think your machine specs are a little too over-powered for loan processing. A laptop from 3-4 years ago can easily fulfill those requirements. A simple AMD processor with 1-2GB of RAM with 120GB of hard drive will be far more than enough. Other than that, you will only need a CD/DVD drive, USB port, Wifi, and ethernet port.
Of course, laptops are so cheap now - why not splurge a little more?
Dell business class laptops and Lenovo should be fine. Although the good ones will run you close to $1,000 at least.
Another option is to buy a Mac Book Pro and put Windows on it (I assume your accounting software runs in Windows). No one makes better notebook hardware then they do.
If portability is an issue, a MSI Wind ($500-$600) or EeePC is nice. It has a small form factor (7"-10" screen), and can run basic applications. Very nice for travelling on planes and such. Not so nice if you have large hands, however. But definitely enough power for what you're doing. |
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| dakboy |
quote: Originally posted by onyxtape
Another option is to buy a Mac Book Pro and put Windows on it (I assume your accounting software runs in Windows). No one makes better notebook hardware then they do. | |
Unless you have a specific need that is only met by the MacBook Pro, a MacBook will most likely suffice.
Keep OS X on it, run Windows in VirtualBox, VMWare or Parallels for whatever software you need that only runs on Windows, and you're solid.
No matter what route you go, max out the RAM, but don't buy from the PC vendor. Go third-party (Crucial or Kingston). It's a cheap way to significantly extend the life of the computer and improve performance & battery runtime. |
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| rockhopjohn |
I have a Dell laptop, and used to work in IT for a University who ran all Dell machines, and I have always been very happy with the service. I made a point to buy their complete care plan, which is pretty much a no questions asked warranty on the laptop for whatever term you buy (mine is 3 years). I would recommend digging through Dell's outlet site an see what they have. There are a lot of scratch and dents, refurbs, and unclaimed orders there that can be had pretty cheap, but with a full factory warranty.
I just checked, and there are Dell 1525s running from $389 on the outlet site.
http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...0425&lid=682028 |
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| ETC |
thanks for the replies guys
this is basically what i'm seeing while searching around, people seem to like whatever they ended buying. seems like they are all fine until something breaks and they try to get some response out of the manufacturer, then, they suck.
yes these laptops are a little overkill for what i plan to use it for but unless i buy a used one or old stock i'm going to end up with vista. seems like vista is a huge resource hog so if i go that route i figure i should get something that will actually run it. at times you need to have multiple programs open to migrate data so more power and memory is always a good thing.
i'm hesitant to buy something 3-4 years old in this age of disposable electronics, seems like the low to mid stuff pretty much across the board [stereos, tv's, etc] are only really intented to last that long. the other issue being that no matter what i buy, it's going to be essentially obsolete in a month or so.
i bought a printer a few years back, didn't realize it was last years model. had to change out the os on my system and come to find out the maker no longer supported the drivers for it ..........
if someone has had really good experience with an online retailer as far as service is concerned and taking care of issues after the purchase i'd be willing to give it a shot. generally with things like this i would rather have someone look me in the eye and tell me to get bent then have some "tech" in india do it over the phone. people tend to be more helpful and accommodating when they have to face you in person.
does anyone know if any one maker tends to use better internals in these mid/low price systems ? or is it as usual where the all cut corners in different ways ?
the sad thing about this is that it seems, as far as customer service is involved, that it's a toss up or the lesser of evils. seems like if one maker could really get that part of their business straight they'd corner the market. that of course would require lower profit expectations and a shift from pure earnings to reputation as the motivating factor...... yeah i know .... maybe in a parralel reality ;] |
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| Padawan |
I always had a Dell and it served me well for over 6 years. Recently, I got a MacBook. Macbook are a million times better than any PC you can get. Once you go mac, you never go back. It's true.
I vote Macbook. Tremendous value. You wont regret it. |
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| rockhopjohn |
quote: Originally posted by ETC
if someone has had really good experience with an online retailer as far as service is concerned and taking care of issues after the purchase i'd be willing to give it a shot. generally with things like this i would rather have someone look me in the eye and tell me to get bent then have some "tech" in india do it over the phone. people tend to be more helpful and accommodating when they have to face you in person.
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I have had to have my Laptop repaired twice, (bad power supply, and the CPU fan got clogged with dust), and it took about ten minutes on the phone to schedule an appointment for someone to come out the next day (either to my home, or my office, whichever I preferred) and they fixed it on the spot. I don't think service can get any better than that. |
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| jcorry |
quote: Originally posted by Padawan
I always had a Dell and it served me well for over 6 years. Recently, I got a MacBook. Macbook are a million times better than any PC you can get. Once you go mac, you never go back. It's true.
I vote Macbook. Tremendous value. You wont regret it. | |
+1
Worth way more than they charge for it.
Supremely superior personal computer experience. |
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| dakboy |
quote: Originally posted by ETC| i bought a printer a few years back, didn't realize it was last years model. had to change out the os on my system and come to find out the maker no longer supported the drivers for it | |
Guess what - that printer probably won't work with Vista then. My father in law had to replace his relatively new (under 3 years, I think) HP printer because his new computer came with Vista and HP doesn't have drivers for it. It's a worse racket than ink cartridges.
I bought my first Mac last November. I knew OS X was good, but I didn't realize just how good everything was until I'd lived with if for a few days. |
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| Juan |
Well for what it's worth here's my opinion on laptops, I work for a company that has about 1,700 laptops and 2,400 desktop computers, and I have the assignment to pick the vendor to replace all of them. This will be a multi-million dollar expense and we want to make sure we get it right. Right now we have a mix of Dell, HP, and Lenovo computers. It's my teams job to support all of this and after much thought, research, and real life experience I've come to the conclusion that all computers suck. :3: Yup, the best name brands in the business and every one of them has issues.
Our HP computers are by far and away the most problematic systems, the desktops and laptops started having problems within the first year. These systems are a couple of years old now and the HP rep swears up and down that HP is selling better equipment nowadays. Frankly, I remain skeptical.
The Dell laptops are typically pretty reliable, but their cases are weak so we replace a lot of them because of rough handling. If you don't abuse a Dell it would be a fine computer. Oh, btw the Dell rep swears up and down that they are selling tougher cases now. Frankly, I remain skeptical.
The Lenovo laptops are dang near indestructible. After our sales force managed to destroy their HP laptops we replaced them with Lenovo's. Now 3 years later the failure rate is a fraction of what we saw in the HP's at the same length of service. We have one laptop that was returned after it was run over by a pickup truck and then dragged down the street. (I don't know how :8: ) The LCD was cracked, the case badly scuffed, but it still worked!
If I were spending my own money I'd look at the Lenovo and Dell computers. If you are hard on your computers then go with the Lenovo brand. My experience with retail shops, Best Buy, Circuit City et al, has been pretty bad. For the most part I've never spoken with someone at one of those places that had the first clue about computers. When I buy my own computers I usually buy online, from reputable places. Newegg.com seems to get a lot of my money. :19:
Good luck |
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| ETC |
Juan; thanks for the insight. i'm not hard on equipment but i do agree on the case thing. if dell is using better cases then they must have really been crap before, the couple 1525's i handled felt like kids toys, the others were all bolted down but didn't feel much better.
the major places don't seem to have any lenovos here so i'll have to hit a computer shop. i had a thinkpad for work years ago and it was a tank, in a good way. the ideapad i'm looking at doesn't have the shock protection the thinkpads have or had but from what i've read the cases are still better than most.
newegg has one but it's $50 more than best buy online for the same config. how do you handle repairs for defects if you buy from them ? straight to the manufacturer ? and how does that seem to go ?
regarding the service plans. if i purchase the computer from a retailer, can i call the manufacturer for a plan ? that's only way i'm getting in home service and generally the cost is from half to almost the full price of the computer. i don't really want to go that route hence the questions of reliability and quality of components.
i might consider a macbook for strictly home/personal use but for this purpose the price is a bit high. plus i think i'd have to install windows to network with the offices anyway.
if anyone runs across a lenovo y510 ideapad for less than $750 with a t5750 processor, 3 gigs ram, 250 hd or if you see a smokin deal on something else decent like a dell with the same stuff let me know.
thanks again guys, need to get something soon |
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| jcorry |
quote: | i might consider a macbook for strictly home/personal use but for this purpose the price is a bit high. plus i think i'd have to install windows to network with the offices anyway. | |
You might be surprised to find that the Mac can do everything you want it to do.
Unless you're running a specialty application that is *only* available for win, the Mac can probably do it.
Networking with windows is way, way simpler and more reliable in OS X than it is on Vista.
There is free software that will allow you to run Windows and the win software you need right there on the desktop on your Mac. Again, like all things OS X, it's fast, reliable, easy to use and just works.
Once you've had Mac, you'll never go back! |
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| Juan |
quote: Originally posted by ETC
newegg has one but it's $50 more than best buy online for the same config. | |
If everything is the same I'd buy from the least cost vendor. If you live in a place with sales tax make sure to factor that into the equation. Best Buy might have to charge tax where newegg might not. YMMV
quote: | how do you handle repairs for defects if you buy from them ? straight to the manufacturer ? and how does that seem to go ? | |
We do a lot of depot repair for our laptops. I don't how the warranties work on the consumer grade computers, but for our stuff the vendor will pay us to repair the systems ourselves. However that isn't a good way for our techs to spend their time because laptops are like a Chinese puzzle to take apart. It's better to send it to the local depot for them to fix. These depots make their money by doing warranty work for all of the major vendors. Every city has at least one.
quote: | regarding the service plans. if i purchase the computer from a retailer, can i call the manufacturer for a plan ? that's only way i'm getting in home service and generally the cost is from half to almost the full price of the computer. | |
In home service is going to cost you big time. Just look at it from the vendor's point of view. First you've got to send the tech on site to determine what's really wrong with the computer. After the problem is diagnosed does he have the part with him? No? Great, now you have to order it and send him back out again. You could easily spend 8 hours to fix one problem. Only you can decide how important it is to have your laptop up and running and how long it can be down before its a problem. But if the service plan is the cost of another laptop I'd probably buy another laptop and back one up to the other. That way you'll never be down.
quote: | i don't really want to go that route hence the questions of reliability and quality of components. | |
I know with Dell one of the biggest differences between the consumer and commercial systems is how long they will stay with the same internal components. The consumer grade equipment will get, for example, whatever video card is cheapest that week. Next week it will be a different one, and so on. The commercial equipment that I buy will have the same card for the life of the series which is typically 12 - 18 months or longer. The internals are the same, I just pay extra so I don't have to keep 8 gazillion different hardware drivers on hand to support these systems. If you've only got a few computers this is a non-issue. Really, with components it's the luck of the draw. You won't know if you've got problems until, you've got problems. Problems seem to travel in packs though, if you are into doing research you could Google the different components in the system you're thinking about buying and look for any problems.
quote: | i might consider a macbook for strictly home/personal use but for this purpose the price is a bit high. plus i think i'd have to install windows to network with the offices anyway. | |
I make my living supporting PC's, but Mac's are a sweet machine. You can network them very easily, (more easily than a PC and without needing Windows) but if these offices are supported by PC techs don't expect much help from them. Most of my guys act like Mac's are toxic. :16: |
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| ETC |
well maybe i'll look at macs and see if i can justify the cost to myself ?
how are they about service ? do they offer longer warranty against component failure ? do they give you the operating system on a disc as backup ?
asking a couple relatively competent sales guys, if a hardware failure causes catastrophic software failure, you may be sol getting that reinstalled .........
i havn't had a chance to speak with "the computer guy" for the main place i deal with so i'm not sure of his attitude about mac's
regarding the internals of the pc's, it looks like most i'm looking at use intel chips and chipsets with integrated graphics [ x3100]. seems like two different basic chipsets and looking at the processor/video tests one seems to have a fsb. other than that they don't list specifics as to the brand of hard drive , disc drives or power supplies.
down time is not an issue, i can always jump back on a desktop. i'm just trying to give myself more options of where and when i can work on things.
mostly i'm trying to to avoid major headaches dealing with the manufacturer in the first place by getting the most reliable thing i can for the money. i realize this can easily become a moot point as even the best thing on the market can take a dive, but, at least i'll know that i did my research ;] |
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| dakboy |
quote: Originally posted by ETC
how are they about service ? do they offer longer warranty against component failure ? do they give you the operating system on a disc as backup ? | |
1 year warranty on hardware. You can extend that to 3 years by buying AppleCare. Best deal on that is from LA Computer Company (it's still a valid warranty, it's just cheaper than buying from Apple).
And since the AppleCare is tied to the serial number, if you resell the machine before the 3 years are up, the warranty goes with it. This boosts its value tremendously. One of the editors at Ars Technica (Charles Jade) has a very public Mac purchasing policy; he buys a new one every year & gets AppleCare. When he gets the new one, he sells the previous year's model. His net cost each year is only a few hundred bucks because of the warranty and the fact that Macs hold value very well.
Yes, it comes with the OS on DVD. If you use Time Machine, you can restore your system using the DVD, then tell it to restore backups automatically from the TM drive. Very minimal downtime, and no intervention on your part.
quote: Originally posted by ETC
asking a couple relatively competent sales guys, if a hardware failure causes catastrophic software failure, you may be sol getting that reinstalled ......... | |
There is a lot of FUD out there about Macs, still. If these sales guys weren't in an Apple store, I wouldn't trust them too much on this.
I'm not sure how hardware will cause a "software failure" - worst case you have to reinstall to a new HD, and as long as you have backups and an OS disc (which is hard to get from many Windows PC vendors) you should be fine. You have backups, right?
quote: Originally posted by ETC
regarding the internals of the pc's, it looks like most i'm looking at use intel chips and chipsets with integrated graphics [ x3100]. seems like two different basic chipsets and looking at the processor/video tests one seems to have a fsb. | |
MacBooks have that same integrated graphics. Today, anyway. When the next MacBook refresh comes out (likely by the first week of November), that will probably change.quote: Originally posted by ETC
other than that they don't list specifics as to the brand of hard drive , disc drives or power supplies. | |
HDs, they buy whatever's cheap that week. Apple tends to stick with only one or 2 vendors because they buy HUGE lots of components up front when rolling out a product refresh.
Power supply I wouldn't worry about too much on a laptop, since it's an external component.
quote: Originally posted by ETC
mostly i'm trying to to avoid major headaches dealing with the manufacturer in the first place by getting the most reliable thing i can for the money. i realize this can easily become a moot point as even the best thing on the market can take a dive, but, at least i'll know that i did my research ;] | |
Apples have a very low headache rate, and Apple tends to be VERY good on warranty claims, especially with AppleCare. |
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| ETC |
my post was probably confusing since i was going back and forth between macs and pc's.
when i talked about the "hardware causing software failure" i was referring to exactly what you said, pc's not coming with a full installation disc and having a hard drive failure.
i might have gotten a bad impression of apple from my sons ipod. his aunt bought him one a few years back, top of the line with and extended warranty. it started acting goofy on him so he took it to the apple store for repair. they told him the warrenty wasn't valid becasue it had a dent in the case, he showed me the "dent" and i had to go into another room with bright light to see this "dent". they wouldn't disassemble the unit to say for sure that the dent caused the problem, just that the warranty wasn't valid. he told them as well as me that the dent had been there for six months, he knew because he dropped it right after he got it and was pissed at himself because it was brand new.
i know it's a different issue but i just got the impression that like most companies these days, their "unspoken policy" is to find any reason to deny warranty work.
thanks for the advice, i'll have to research macs as i have no idea what to look for in one or what a good deal is on one. |
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| dakboy |
quote: Originally posted by ETC
thanks for the advice, i'll have to research macs as i have no idea what to look for in one or what a good deal is on one. | |
Well, in some ways this is good - there aren't a lot of options. You get what His Steveness says you get :) That was one of the appeals for me - I don't have to sift through 3 dozen options and hope it all works right. And there aren't many "deals" as the prices are pretty well set.
If you're OK with a slightly older model, the Apple Refurb outlet has some good prices. And full warranties.
Just don't buy the RAM or HD upgrades from Apple. Total ripoff. |
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| ETC |
started looking a little at macs ............
so what is the deal ? what is the main reason that one would buy one at twice the cost of a pc ?
is it reliability ? ease of use ? longevity of the unit ?
my first question [ if you feel like discussing it] is : does the oxs use that much less resource that the ram is not a factor ? how about if you run something like office ? someone suggested you can run windows on the desktop ... how does that work with such little ram ?
just looking at best buy online, the lowest priced mac is $1100 . it appears to use a similar speed processor as the laptops in the $600 range [ 5800 @2.0 ghz w/800mhz fsb] but it only comes with 1 gig of ram. graphics are the same [x3100] and the hard drive is half the size @120 gigs. the screen is also smaller. slot load disk drive also worries me like it did on the studio.
enlighten me on the merits of the mac ........ on paper it looks a bit lopsided. |
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| dakboy |
I had written up a post on another forum about 8 months ago to address many of your questions but I can't find it right now & my time is limited at work today. Short answers:
OS X manages memory MUCH better than Windows.
Windows has to be run inside VMWare if you want to run it at the same time as OS X. VMWare really needs a minimum of 2GB installed on the system.
Don't understand your Office concern. MS Office 2008 can handle all the same file types MS Office on Windows can.
OS X's user interface is far more consistent, far more polished, and better-designed. And it carries through to 3rd-party applications.
OS X offers system-wide services to allow for far better integration of applications & data than I've ever seen on Windows.
Spotlight blows away any Windows search feature.
Application installation & management is brain-dead easy compared to 95% of Windows application installation.
I can go on but not till tonight.
Edit: Oh yeah, there's the "it just works" factor. When I bought my MacBook, I knew 100% that when I opened the box, everything would work correctly out of the gate. I know that when the next release of OS X comes out, everything will work. I know that when driver updates come out, they'll work. As opposed to MS blaming Dell for a weird driver problem, and Dell blaming MS, or someone blaming NVidia, or NVidia blaming someone else, etc. |
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| Claymore |
| Regarding the Mac, I believe something else you have to factor in is that if you intend to run the Windows OS as well, you will have to pay extra for the license. |
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| dakboy |
quote: Originally posted by Claymore
Regarding the Mac, I believe something else you have to factor in is that if you intend to run the Windows OS as well, you will have to pay extra for the license. | |
That assumes you don't already have one you can transfer from another system. |
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| jcorry |
quote: | Don't understand your Office concern. MS Office 2008 can handle all the same file types MS Office on Windows can. | |
Though it's beyond me why anyone would spend money on MSs bloatware when a superior product is available for free!
http://www.openoffice.org/ |
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| dakboy |
quote: Originally posted by jcorry
Though it's beyond me why anyone would spend money on MSs bloatware when a superior product is available for free!
http://www.openoffice.org/ | |
I want to like OO.o. I really do. BUT:
* OO.o 2.x on MacOS is agonizingly slow (haven't tried 3 yet; all iterations of OO.o that I've tried, Mac & Win, have been slower than their MS counterparts for me).
* File compatibility with MS products isn't 100%, and mandatory for my wife & I.
* For my wife, it was different enough from what she's used to with MS Word that she had trouble with it (which will also keep her from going to MS Office 2007). She just wants to get in, work on her documents with minimal fuss, and get out.
* Some things that should be easy (styles come to mind) aren't. Not that it's always easier in MS Word (it's not), but it's not any better.
I get MS Office for $20 through my employer's licensing program. It's worth it to me. |
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| ETC |
you're starting to lose me on the different office apps. since i have no experience with macs os i was just concerned with compatability with windows based networks.
i don't have a copy of windows but i have access to a licensed copy . that's a whole different story about buying a computer with no install disc, just a recovery disc. MS was no help, compaq was no help, just bypassed that and used a friends [ i already paid for it so as far as i'm concerned it's my right to use.
seems like the mac is comething i might try out at some point, doesn't seem the way to roll for this particular application.
best buy seems to be rotating the dell, toshiba, gateway and hps for about $600. they will work, the toshiba seems to have the best bang for the buck as far as chipset but the prevailing opinion seems to be that the build quality is the worst of the bunch. probably going dell as i just found out i missed a lenovo special on the y510.
i was talking to my kid today, told him i was looking at macs. he said, "just don't get the warranty, if you scratch it, they'll probably tell you to get bent" |
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