| 2008wagon |
Hi everybody, wanted to vent about how I got fired today from my job of 12 years. Yes, an employee with 12 years, 0 attendance points, a reputation for being well liked and versatile, good work record etc. got fired today.... ME!!!
My boss told me it was a "headcount thing" and had nothing to do with performance. Fine, I imagine that's true because he's never lied to me.
What really grinds my gears is that there were a crapload of people that should have gone before me. It's my feeling that if they didn't need me anymore then, they should have gotten rid of some underperforming person, of which there are many left, and put me into that position. The number of good people that got fired today was pretty high, and I feel like most of them should have displaced some of these others who are just not good reliable people. But they didn't do it like that, so all of our lives get turned upside down just because they felt like it.
Something else that pisses me off is that my job had become so slow AS A DIRECT RESULT OF OUR DEPARTMENTS PRODUCT LINE BEING SHIPPED TO MEXICO!!! That is a fact, and I'm quite bitter about it. I'm searching for recourse here; they took my job and sent the fu**ing thing to Mexico, and then they fired me. I feel they owe me something for that!! They gave a severence, which I have NOT agreed to yet, because these severence checks are subject to a higher tax rate than a regular paycheck. They offered me 12 weeks of pay, 1 week for every year I have been there, plus any unused vacation. But until you take that higher tax amount out of this one big check, you're left with much less than what you would have had if you were subject only to the normal payroll tax. So I don't find it fair at all.
But I don't know, I need to calm down first, but if you guys have anything to offer or any words of advice, that would be cool. I've never been unemployed before in my life, I'm not sure how to act. |
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| Capt.Cairo |
| I don't have any advice, but I'm sorry to hear that, that's a real bummer especially with this economy. I hope you have good luck with everything. |
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| rickprins |
Dude, that sucks! I really feel for you. We went thru a layoff round last week where I work and I fortunately made it thru. All I know (which isn't much) is that a lot of the time it's project and salary based. Some projects are more critical keep anyone associated with it, while other less important get canned and the people (no matter how good) go with it. Also, I think that many times a person with a higher salary may go before a lower salaried employee, and it's not just the salary, but all of the benefits that may go with that person.
It sucks. I've been there. And unfortunately there is probably no recourse for you. Good luck.
What line of work were you in? Maybe someone on the forum knows of something? |
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| 2008wagon |
The company was part of the automotive industry, the name is Luk Incorporated. Many people have heard of it, they supply clutches, torque converters, dual mass flywheels, etc. as OE to the car makers; Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, many GM vehicles, etc. They also have an aftermarket business.
Just recently they moved the entire product line for manual transmission products to Mexico, as they have a facility down there. I was the Planner in manual prototype, responsible for getting parts together, making sure individual components were to print spec, and then I was responsible for initiating the buildong process, and then sheduling the shipment. I did alot, and I liked it. They shipped everything to S.O.B. (south of border) and left me to get fired because the amount of work left meant I had to go. I was lowest on the totem pole too though, but so many of my co-workers just plain sucked. Lazy, habitual whiners were most of them, but who gets fired? Me.
And this place has so much WORTHLESS fat at the top level it's unbelievable. The only requirement for being a manager in the place is to be able to say "YES" about 1000 times a day to your director of the department. Bosses are not allowed to be bosses in there. It's German run, and if you'll suck a German di** then you can get somewhere in the place. Not me, fu** that.
This will be the third large company in our town the Germans have ruined. Rubbermaid was first, Rexroth was second, and now it looks like Luk will be third. When it goes, there is nothing left here. |
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| The_Lizard |
That was my situation in September 2007, but at least I saw it coming.
That higher witholding rate stinks but you would get the extra back in your tax refund, right? The place that cut me gave me a severance, in the form of one last check that came 2 weeks after I was gone, which pushed back my eligibility for unemployment.
The place before that gave me one week of pay as a severance. |
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| 2008wagon |
| They do not have to give any severence, do they? Is there any law governing this at all that says they have to give you something? |
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| mtmactom |
Sorry to hear, good luck with everything. By the way you weren't fired you were laid off/let go/ downsized. Bad workers get fired, which is what it sounds like should have been done to alot of the whiners around there to protect your job. You should see if the can give you the 12 weeks pay over a 12 week period.
In part i blame GW for not making any efforts to give companies incentives to keep jobs here. In my job that i am lucky enough to still have, i am overseeing the work of people in India doing my old job.
Good luck. |
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| rsrocket1 |
If you work for an "at will" employer, they are obligated to pay you for the work you did and nothing else. Just like you are obligated to work for your wages, nothing more. You only give 2 weeks notice as a courtesy, you are not legally obligated to do so, nor are you obligated to keep working for an employer until they find and train a replacement for you.
I feel for you man, I've been in that situation a number of times. Make sure you apply for UI, you are entitled to it because you have been paying into it for the past 12 years. I think there is a 1 week "cooling off" period, but severance or no, you are not earning wages and you are legally unemployed as soon as you walk out the door.
Also, if your job was exported, check to see if you are eligible for reimbursement/payment for "retraining" classes. Again, you snooze, you lose if you wait too long. Even if you may not need/want it, it is better to have the paperwork in process and not use it than it is to have wanted it and lost the chance.
Good luck. |
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| johnson |
Sorry to hear about what happened.
I have seen the same type of thing happen, lazy bums get retained while valuable, hard working folks get let go. Usually a matter of circumstance, it just sucks. Also, it sounds like you had a very unique job position, something that isn't commonplace anywhere and everywhere. Without getting into too much detail, I also work a very unique, almost hybrid job position where if I got laid off, I'd probably never find the same type of job anywhere else. Makes me wish I had a job that was always in demand, everywhere like "registered nurse."
Best thing to do is just move forward with a positive attitude. Don't limit yourself, your dream job may be something out there that you never even considered before.
Careerbuilder.com is a great job website, I've used it before. I've heard monster.com is good too, but I think Careerbuilder is more user friendly. I know it doesn't sound great, but check craigslist.com too. I've seen some postings on there that I wouldn't expect. |
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| kduchow |
Sorry dude, that really sucks.
You will get the extra tax money back they take out in the severance. Since it is a lump sum, they're required to tax it at the highest rate. But unless getting that extra money puts you in the next higher tax bracket for the year, you'll get all the extra back when you file your 2008 taxes. |
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| nurse-gadget |
| aahhh shucks 2008wagon....that stinks!!....sadly....I think you will have lots of others joining you in the unemployment line....soon....good luck with your future....I hope something good comes your way :) |
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| skipjack |
:( So sorry 2008wagon for your situation. I know that it is not the most ideal situation to be right now. Not wanting to sound cold and unsympathetic, but it is what it is. Getting P.O.'ed at the situation would not help you get the job back anyway, and since it is a layoff, burning your bridges may harm your chances of being called by, if your lay-off period exceeds the time period for your recall rights. (Unless this doesn't apply to your position).
Companies treat staff positions differently. You may have 12 years of service in the company, but are you the least senior planner? Or doesn't the seniority rule appply to your company's staff position?
Nevertheless, focus your energy in getting back to the workforce. (I know that it is easier said than done nowadays). No matter how you go about in your job searching, networking is still key in the whole exercise. If you are a Materials and/or Production Planner, you may want to check out APICS (The American Production and Inventory Control Society, www.apics.org) for resources. This organization is composed of Supply Chain Professionals that would include Production Control Experts (which is what Planners are anyway, right?) I am not sure if you have heard of the CPIM (Certified Production Inventory Manager) Program, which is conducted by APICS. Having a CPIM helps you land jobs in Planning/Scheduling, especially in the High Tech Industry. I am suggesting this, if you are still interested in pursuing a career in Planning.
You may also want to check out www.linkedin.com. It is a professional networking site, and I have colleagues that were successful in finding employment in other parts of the country. As a large number of recruiters are members of this site, as well. Heck, you can even be introduced to possible employers abroad! PM me if you want to know more about this site.
At any rate, good luck on your job search, and keep the faith. I feel your pain and the injustice done in your situation, but we do have to move on. |
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| outbackredux |
| Sorry to hear that 2008 wagon. It's a bad time to be a long time employee. I maybe facing a similar situation. My company has been hiring temp employees. They don't show up as employees for the propose of wall street stock ratings. So when the slow down comes to our business, and it will. I'm pretty sure they'll be laying off longtime high payed people like myself. Otherwise they'll show no reduction in work force. Pretty slick huh? They get to keep well trained temps that don't get bennies and aren't counted as employees. People like me who have been with them almost from the start take a hike. What can we do? I've started looking for alterntives, maybe I'll just go on the dole, nurse on the public teat for the rest of my life. That seems to be the new American way anyway. |
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| keninn |
| sachs north america is in westlake, ohio. maybe you can get on there. |
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| bheinz57 |
I also have been in your shoes and feel your frustration.
I can only say keep your chin up and a new opportunity will come your way.
And sorry to get personal but the big US automakers need a huge shakeup, and w/o us taxpayers helping out....So I hope the company you worked for feels your pain when they all lose their jobs.
Brina |
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| ported |
Sorry man.
Been there, 3 heart attacks...cut loose two out of three times. Have a family to support.
I used those times as opportunities. Now I'm working for the gov't and know exactly what is meant by yes men and people not doing their jobs. I have been referred to as the guy with the carreer limiting mouth...call them like I see them, with respect.
Good luck 2008 wagon, you'll do better. |
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| ETC |
i know it doesn't help but, it sucks everywhere right now.
my wifes head is on the chopping block, has been for some time. wholesale rep for a big bank, they keep cutting their percentage and requiring ridiculous minimum monthly output while not supporting wholesale with competitive rates.
anyway, the only thing i can suggest is to talk to hr or accounting at your office and see if you can go exempt on that check. my old company used to lay people off when it got slow and they would allow you to go exempt up to three times a year. for most of the guys it balanced out at the end of the year because of the time they were off [most worked under the table for those periods doing side work].
i never got layed off but i did go exempt on bonus checks a few times.
worth a shot
file for unemployment asap and good luck
something definitely needs to be done about allowing jobs to be shipped overseas or over the border. no way american workers can compete with countries that have no labor laws and pay people 1/10th of what employers have to pay here. not exactly a level playing field .......
unfortunately unless they start imposing heavy tariffs on goods from countries without similar labor laws and pay rates, our only recourse seems to be boycotting the products ourselves. personally i dont' see americans doing it .... no matter how " patriotic" they claim to be. |
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| 2008wagon |
Thanks alot of for all the replies here, and for all the suggestions and advice. Being unemployed is totally new to me, like I said before.
I can keep busy, and make some money too, because I freelance write and photograph for 4 different papers. That is what I really enjoy, but unfortunately you would have to work 15 hours a day to make a real good living doing it. But there's nothing I enjoy more than being sent on assignment by my Editor to do a story and get some shots. You meet people, you learn things about your community, and you make new friends. Skipjack, you were so right; NETWORKING is the key, and it's already begun. At the moment I feel very confident everything will be OK. My wife still has her good job, I can always go on her health insurance if I need to, and it'll be OK. But I truly look forward to going out to see what's available. Believe it or not I'm actually finding this quest for a new job to be kind of exciting. Losing my job has definitely shaken my world up, but it might be what I needed. I'm one who believes that things ALWAYS happen for a reason. I've also looked back at all the worst things that have ever happened to me thoughout my life, and I always made it through. |
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| jereg |
I feel for you.
In the 80's I lost 6 jobs in 8 years. I worked for a lot of government contractors and when the job ended, so did my employment.
At my current job they just laid off 3000 employees. My job seems relatively safe but the company just announced that at the end of the year they were eliminating sick leave. My wife says to leave now before it gets worse but where do you go?
I really wish you luck because I think many of us are going to face a similar reality soon. |
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| neutron |
Hey dude... ain't them the breaks huh?
If you're not planning on retiring now, get yourself an account at LinkedIn.com, fill it out and start searching for names of people you've worked with so you can "link" with them. LinkedIn is sort of a Facebook for professionals. It's a great relationship-building tool and gives your resume a lot more weight.
I'm a professional business writer so if you feel you need help with your resume go ahead and shoot me a PM. |
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| SigEpKazz37 |
| Sorry to hear that you got shafted like that. I hope you can find a better job soon. |
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| 2008wagon |
Hi everybody,
I haven't been on here in awhile. Being unemployed takes up a lot of time :)
Anyway, who knows something about this "re-training" that I am supposedly eligible for since my job essentially went to Mexico? As I read back through this thread, I see where it was mentioned but really no elaboration was done.
What's going on now is this; The Human Resources Director of this place that fired 300 of us says that he has applied for a government grant that will supposedly give all of us the chance to go back to school and it will be paid for. This guy tells me that right now is a "waiting" time, and that there is nothing I can do. He says that when the grant is approved (he seems really optimistic) I will be personally notified.
He submitted the application about 2 weeks ago and we're still waiting to hear from the Dept. of Labor about our eligibility.
So has anyone been through this process? I guess my question would be is this really a time where I can't do anything but wait? Am I really at the mercy of the Department of Labor? I can't stand not being in control of my own situation.
I've got a link to the Dept. of Labor website. He sent it to me and said I can get info from it. To be honest, this website is confusing, jumbled, and I got nothing from it. If anyone wants the link, I'll post it up.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Erik |
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| bheinz57 |
There is what the Govt. calls the WARN act I believe. Check it out on the web.
Brian |
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| rsrocket1 |
If you are eligible and want to take the classes/training, DON'T HESITATE.
I wanted to know more about it after 9 months of unemployment. I had a number of promising interviews, but none had worked out. I called the "retraining" office to get more information on this retraining program and see if there is anything that I might benefit from it.
The guy on the phone said you had to do it within X number of months after losing your job.
I said "well, I'd like to get some information anyway"
He said "You'd have to appeal your case"
I agreed and was given an appoinment date and location. I was expecting to go to a DMV style office and simply pick up some literature.
When I went to the address they gave me, I was sent into a law office where a retired judge sat to "hear my appeal". The federal employee on the speaker phone presented a thoroughly researched "case" against me which proved that I did not apply for retraining in the alloted time and that I do not deserve to be eligible for retraining.
I JUST WANTED SOME INFORMATION!
Needless to say I could do nothing more than shake my head and laugh as I left the office.
Oddly enough, the next week, I wrote a letter to the president of a small high tech company and attached my resume. The next Wednesday I went in for an interview and by the time I got home, they called me with an offer and wanted me to start that Friday. Go figure.
Look up Work Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) to see if your company is on the list. If it is, you MAY be eligible. |
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| 2008wagon |
Thanks for all the info, I Googled WARN and found some stuff
This EXCEPTION of the program worries me though, because it applies to the company I worked for:
If 50-499 workers lose their jobs and that number is less than 33 per cent of the employer’s total, active workforce at a single employment site;
280 people lost their jobs out of 1000 people. That less than 33% of the total, so I wonder if we are even eligible because of this. |
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| cptnjosh |
2008wagon,
I sympathize with you. I have been in the same boat since Nov. 2008, although the cruise company i worked for keeps me busy for a few hours a week. But they did take away all salary and bonus's. At least they are willing to keep my health insurance going. It is a major pain to jump through all the hoops at the unemployment office. From what i have read the training benefits need to be applied for within 60 days of your first claim. All the extra free time can be a little stressful, but fun too if you find a project you have been meaning to do. It's funny how taking away one's job can effect the whole self worth and pride thing. Good luck and hang in there! |
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| ETC |
kinda sucks for everyone right now
work for a company for a long time, get laid off, only technically qualified to that job and there are about a million other people looking for it.
anyone notice the employers taking advantage of the situation ? skilled jobs that averaged $30-40 an hour two years ago are offering $12-15 now and they're still getting hundreds of apps per posting.
cobra for us is only $873 a month [swallows hard], lot of tough decisions for a lot of people. "socialized commie medical" is probably starting to sound like not such a bad idea to most now ... |
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| cougar |
| No one ows you a job, it is not an entitlement. Move on. |
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| cptnjosh |
quote: | No one ows you a job, it is not an entitlement. Move on. | |
Congratulations Cougar!
You get the award for the most tasteless post on this forum I have ever seen.
Nice job! Be sure and tell all your friends how you told those jobless folks what's up. I bet you got it all figured out. |
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| ETC |
| consider the source ... expected and duly ignored. |
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| 2008wagon |
| Yeah that was a pretty harsh post. Noone here that I have seen ever said they think someone owes them a job. |
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| dvl |
How's this for ironic?
Two Fridays ago, I picked up the new 2009 Outback XT. Drove it for the weekend. Spent the week away on business. Returned for the weekend, drove it again. On Monday at lunch, I dropped off the second check to the dealer, paying it in full.
At 2pm, I was fired.
But hey, it's a very nice car. :) |
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| 2008wagon |
Boy that is ironic. Sorry as hell to hear that.
Apparently, you didn't see it coming?? |
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| dvl |
| I did and I didn't. I knew there were problems. I thought things were improving to the point where this wouldn't happen. |
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| 2008wagon |
Very similar to my situation. They told us they were done firing. They said they were willing to keep the remaining people because they had weeded out the sub-standard employees and would keep the good ones even despite the fact they didn't need all of them at the moment. They could see the business picking up again down the road and they'd need the most skilled workers. Well, that must have changed cause not one week after they said all that crap, 35 more got fired, myself included.
But I was arrogant enough to think that they would put me in another position before they ever fired me. Actually a number of us that got fired thought that very same thing. I learned real quick that there's no loyalty when it's business and there's profit on the line.
If I can help it, the next place I work will be 200 people or less. When it's a 800 or 1000 employees it just creates a whole added set of problems that a smaller employer can deal with better I think. |
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| ETC |
no rhyme or reason to it half the time. my wife worked worked as a wholesale exec for 12 years, 9 with the current owner of the former company she worked for. all their numbers were crap in the last quarter of last year, they set unrealistic goals for all of them and she missed hers by 5%, the first month her pipeline was higher than 80% of the other reps and they let her go ... ? no other reason known or given just, "we don't need you any more" . they split her brokers up and gave them to reps who were bringing in almost no business, the fundings from her brokers saved their jobs.
basically, not only do they not g.a.s about anyone, their business decisions make absolutely no sense. all this is evidenced by the bailouts and the continued practices of pissing away money and rewarding those who make mistakes. |
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| 2008wagon |
Below is what I found regarding the company I worked for. This comes from the Dept. of Labor website and companies that have applied for TAA or Trade Adjustment Assistance.
Looks like they got certified to me, but I have heard nothing about it.
Does anyone see anything different here at this link??
[url]http://www.doleta.gov/tradeact/taa/taa |
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| MisterMo |
Unemployed here too. I'm 'downsizing' to a OB, which is what brought me here to this site.
Also, as an Indiana resident, I wanted to show solidarity with the brand since they are made in Indiana. Buying used as I am doesn't create any new jobs, but maybe it props up the resale value so more new ones get sold? Nice stretch!
2008 wagon brings up a point that's concerned me. If one buys an OB, it helps the Indiana economy to some extent. But if I had bought a Ford Escape for example, am I helping Mexico because the transmissions are made their?
I've read that parts supplier's jobs outnumber final assembly jobs 4 to 1. If I want to truly buy local and support as many local jobs as possible, how do I determine which product to buy? With the global economy and inter-dependence we have, it's really not safe to assume that 'made in the USA' really means that. |
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| 2008wagon |
Personally I can't answer your question, but I will say this;
I felt really good about buying a Subaru because they employ 3300 employees over there in Indiana, they built my car over there, and they get 98% of their steel from U.S. Steel, right there in Indiana. When my wife and I took the plant tour we were told this. Steel I suppose might be the biggest expenditure in any vehicle, am I correct? If that's the case, then Subaru really contributes greatly to the Indiana economy.
Subaru should be the template for every car company in the future. They are positioned well in this horrible economy. Hell, they even posted a .3% profit last year when every other manufacturer lost their ass....even Honda and Toyota. |
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| dvl |
Buying used helps Subaru IMHO.
If you can't sell your existing car, it's hard to buy a new one. |
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| 2008wagon |
And does anyone know off hand if it is a law that a company must pay you for all your vacation days when you get fired? I'm hearing that the place that fired me is now only paying people for 3 or 4 days of vacation when some of these folks had much more than that. Does anyone know if that's legal?
This is just what I heard, I don't know if it's a credible statement or not...... |
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| cptnjosh |
| I think Limited Liability Companies can get away with that. Some companies will try anything to save a dime when the going gets rough. |
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| rsrocket1 |
You should have received a check for the hours you worked up to the time you left the premises INCLUDING any unused vacation time AT THE TIME OF YOUR TERMINATION. They have no excuse for saying "we didn't have the time to do this", the whole thing should have been planned, calculated and completed before they even notified you of your termination.
Unused vacation time is part of their financial liabilities which is why a lot of companies no longer let you carry over more than a few weeks of vacation from one fiscal year to another. Unless you waived your vacation time when you signed any "non lawsuit" final forms, you were entitled to it. Now, if you have to take them to court, that's your call. If there are a number of you who feel you were cheated out of vacation time, you could get together and maybe you'll pull more clout with a judge.
Be aware, sick leave is not vacation time. If you had separate sick leave on the books, those hours are lost. Some companies now have PTO or "personal time off" which is a substitute for vacation/sick leave. Most companies treat that as vacation time and will pay that off to departing employees.
I am not a legal expert, just someone who has been laid off and switched jobs quite a few times (though usually not of my choosing) so I am only giving you my personal experiences as well as being briefed a few times about the (un)employment laws in California. |
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