| Hooray |
| who cares at this point - not me |
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| outbackredux |
| We'll care again when the bill for these bailouts come due. |
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| Hooray |
| Wrong or Right I view taxes as somethign I pay - sometimes they are higher, sometimes they are lower - I take the attitude that this is always the case and I cannot do anything about it - It keeps me from stressing out |
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| Button |
outbackredux:
If you don't like the country's policies . . . move to another country.
Regards,
~Button |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by Button
outbackredux:
If you don't like the country's policies . . . move to another country.
Regards,
~Button | |
I want our elected officals to follow the consititution the law of the land, not subvert and make end runs around it. Those that do should be run out of the country. This is my home and I intend to stay here and exercise my God given rights that the consititution protects, for as long as I live. I took an oath to protect and defend the consititution and the country from enemies foreign and domestic, just because I no longer wear a uniform doesn't mean I don't still take my oath to heart. If you don't like the consititution I suggest you leave. |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by Hooray
Wrong or Right I view taxes as somethign I pay - sometimes they are higher, sometimes they are lower - I take the attitude that this is always the case and I cannot do anything about it - It keeps me from stressing out | |
The socialists need people like you. Hope you feel the same when their taking 70% of your earnings. |
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| Mylläri |
quote: Originally posted by Button
outbackredux:
If you don't like the country's policies . . . move to another country.
Regards,
~Button | |
This is a horrible sentiment, even though I can agree that I don't like the way America is going and would like to move elsewhere (but is not a viable choice at this point in my life). Dissenting against the establishment is a patriotic right of all Americans, if you are against dissent then perhaps you should be the one leaving.
OBRedux, please don't lump one in with another because they disagree with you.
I consider Bush a neo-liberal on foreign affairs and a neo-conservative domestically, both "persuasions" play into one another and are the worst of all worlds. Nevertheless he'll be gone in a few weeks and we'll have ***** to contend with, IMO Barry will spend America into oblivion. We'll be seing some BIG inflation within his first term and who knows what will happen after that. |
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| outbackredux |
| Mylläri We agree except for the neo-conservative domestically part. I don't think a campian finance bill that subverts the 1st amend, a govt. drug plan that cost 500B + and a 700B + bailout is conservative neo, or otherwise. He's a liberal, socialist in a conservative suit. He's subverted the term conservative. Thanks for your comments on leaving the country. Seems some think that dissent is only good when praticed by liberals and lefties. |
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| cougar |
quote: Originally posted by Button
outbackredux:
If you don't like the country's policies . . . move to another country.
Regards,
~Button | |
I agree 100%. Go where you can obtain your false sense of euphoria.
DIVIDED
CONQUERED
usa |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by cougar
I agree 100%. Go where you can obtain your false sense of euphoria.
DIVIDED
CONQUERED
usa | |
What euphoria are you referring to? I see a very bleak furture for this great country. That would be the opposite of euphoria. You should understand a thread or english before you jump in.:rolleyes: |
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| ETC |
really ? if you don't like it ..... leave ? don't try to change what's wrong with your representative democracy ? don't admit any faults with it as that may show weakness ? maybe it would just show intelligence or at least a basic understanding of .... anything.
DIVIDED-CONQUERED ......... what does that even mean ?
guess the fear mongering catch phrase without basis phenomenon we've had for the last 8 years is going take a while to dissipate.
here's a couple more for you, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, WMD'S, GREETED AS LIBERATORS, IN THEIR LAST THROES, PATRIOT ACT, ENHANCED INTERROGATION ....... |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by ETC
really ? if you don't like it ..... leave ? don't try to change what's wrong with your representative democracy ? don't admit any faults with it as that may show weakness ? maybe it would just show intelligence or at least a basic understanding of .... anything.
DIVIDED-CONQUERED ......... what does that even mean ?
guess the fear mongering catch phrase without basis phenomenon we've had for the last 8 years is going take a while to dissipate.
here's a couple more for you, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, WMD'S, GREETED AS LIBERATORS, IN THEIR LAST THROES, PATRIOT ACT, ENHANCED INTERROGATION ....... | |
ETC, We have a representative republic not a representative democracy. Did you sleep thru civics class?:D |
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| ETC |
you are of course technically correct but, i personally don't feel as if my rights have been protected nor my wishes represented. seems a lot like we've had a dictator with a bunch of sheep afraid to tell him that just because he wants to do it doesn't mean it's not illegal.
actually i'm not sure what you call a country where corporate entities buy the laws and freedom from prosecution ? where corporate heads get elected to office and illegally grant their "former" companies no bid cost plus contracts for a war ? where "intelligence" is manipulated in order to start that war, fleece the coffers of a country and get it's people killed ? who use fear and fear of being ostracized to subvert the laws of the country ? where those people aren't held accountable for their actions ?
what do you call that type of government ?
how about a country that allows tax exempt religious groups to use their influence to effectively manipulate the rights of other citizens ? that's got to be one of those middle eastern things right ? |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by ETC
you are of course technically correct but, i personally don't feel as if my rights have been protected nor my wishes represented. seems a lot like we've had a dictator with a bunch of sheep afraid to tell him that just because he wants to do it doesn't mean it's not illegal.
actually i'm not sure what you call a country where corporate entities buy the laws and freedom from prosecution ? where corporate heads get elected to office and illegally grant their "former" companies no bid cost plus contracts for a war ? where "intelligence" is manipulated in order to start that war, fleece the coffers of a country and get it's people killed ? who use fear and fear of being ostracized to subvert the laws of the country ? where those people aren't held accountable for their actions ?
what do you call that type of government ?
how about a country that allows tax exempt religious groups to use their influence to effectively manipulate the rights of other citizens ? that's got to be one of those middle eastern things right ? | |
A dictator? You really don't know what a dictator is do you? A dictator will send thugs to the homes of their opposition in the dark of night to take them away never to be seen again. Whom has that happened to? A dictator does not have to deal with an opposition party or a free press or a court system he's taken care of them also. What about the intell of all the other countries that Bush had no power over that said they had proof of WMDs? How about the fact that the only countries that claimed no WMDs exsisted were those that were doing business with the real dictator, Hussien. What WMDs was Clinton taking about during the 90's? What were the UN inspectors trying to nail down for 12 years before the war? Always finding traces that WMDs were there but were moved. I don't suppose you've heard or would beleive that the Russians helped Hussien move the WMDs to Syria? Sometimes you sound like a smart guy other times I think someone eles is using your logon.
No one ever gets everything they want in a society, but you are correct that our rights have not be protected. Special rights for small groups of people have been invented to the loss of some liberties of the general population. Votes of up to the >60% range have been struck down by a few men in black robes whom IMO abuse their power and constiutional mandate. The senate is suppose to protect the polictal minority, not the courts. That's why 60 votes are requried to stop debate and vote on a bill. We live in a time when the courts can find "rights" that are not in the constution but can't find rights that are, which is why the only thing I want to see change is a strict and correct adherence to the consitution and bill of rights. If somethings don't benefit me so be it I can live with that.
Do you really want freedom of speech to be tied to paying taxes? I would think the right to vote tied to paying taxes would be more approprite as those not paying taxes have no vested interest as to how much taxes are taken or how they are spent. Think about it. |
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| cougar |
The real question is, who's country do you want?
The one the Founding Fathers fought and died for or this fraud we have and will continue to have?
The overthrow of this country started with the Civil War. EVERY person in politics or hired by them there after has either aided and abetted or contributed to the overthrow.
The United States of America is only a name. What it stood for is long forgotten. What has been accomplished in it's name is only a store front for the thieves that hide behind it taking dollars and returning pennies to it's slaves. |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by cougar
The real question is, who's country do you want?
The one the Founding Fathers fought and died for or this fraud we have and will continue to have? | |
Do you not read the posts? I think I've made it very clear what I want.
which is why the only thing I want to see change is a strict and correct adherence to the consitution and bill of rights.
I want our elected officals to follow the consititution the law of the land, not subvert and make end runs around it.
The founders wrote the consitution and bill of rights. I don't know if it can be any clearer. :8: |
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| matty |
The bottom line is what are YOU willing to do about it? It starts from within, and the people who give enough of a **** about anything will influence the people who are "on the fence" and that leaves the other 10% on either end of the spectrum who are going to believe what they are going to believe no matter what facts are presented to them. Maybe I am naiive enough to believe that "normal people" can still make a difference, but it seems like energy is better spent making change instead of backbiting and flaming on a subaru forum.
Here's to hoping ***** brings the boxer Diesel to the states! |
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| russd |
| domestically, bush has done us no favors in my opinion. he's protected us from the bad guys but has failed to protect us from the onslaught of the u.s. government. what financial blunders have come to us in the last year are sure to paralyze us for many more. especially with the lefties coming into office on all sides. |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by russd
domestically, bush has done us no favors in my opinion. he's protected us from the bad guys but has failed to protect us from the onslaught of the u.s. government. what financial blunders have come to us in the last year are sure to paralyze us for many more. especially with the lefties coming into office on all sides. | |
++++++++++++++++1 on that russd. Of course he didn't do any of it alone good or bad. |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by matty
The bottom line is what are YOU willing to do about it? It starts from within, and the people who give enough of a **** about anything will influence the people who are "on the fence" and that leaves the other 10% on either end of the spectrum who are going to believe what they are going to believe no matter what facts are presented to them. Maybe I am naiive enough to believe that "normal people" can still make a difference, but it seems like energy is better spent making change instead of backbiting and flaming on a subaru forum.
Here's to hoping ***** brings the boxer Diesel to the states! | |
What can we / I do? I write to my rep and senators, lefites all, they shine me on and spout the lefty garbarge that got us into this mess, like more of a bad thing is suppose to be good. I try to vote for the canidates that proclaim they want to limit the role of govt only to be betrayed by those same people like Bush. I don't have a newpaper, radio, or tv show, only internet forums and personal contacts to express my opinions. So few people these days understand how their govt is suppose to work or what their constutition says that most think I'm crazy. Add the fact that the media distorts and/or makes up facts as well as persenting the leftist view as the only legitmate view, and it's clear how we got to where we are. It didn't happen in 8 years,. As cougar stated it's been going on since the civil war. People think the civil war was about slavery when in fact Lincoln himself said if he could save the union by keeping slavery he would. It was all about subverting the 10th amendment and conlosidating power at the federal level. Ending slavery was an attempt to justify the massive loss of life for a noble and humanitary cause. |
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| ETC |
people have some serious delusions about what this country was and seem to want to give something akin to sainthood to the "founding fathers".
this country is and has always been ruled and controlled by the rich and powerful. the founding fathers owned slaves, didn't want to give women the right to vote, noone back then seemed to have any issue with wiping out the indigenous people, we can go on about how saintly they all were.
reality though is that the past is the past and hopefully we learn from the mistakes that have been made and actually exercise our right to speak out against the things done in our name that we don't agree with.
i don't feel like having the whole bush argument again, i've heard all the bs justification for what he's done over the last 8 years and most of it is exactly that. parroting fox news talking points does not make it reality.
but, with extraordinary rendition, how would one know if someone were abducted under the veil of "terrorism" ? didn't seem to have a problem firing anyone who didn't go along with the program or appointing a useless punkass little AG that justified anything he did.
actually i said "it seems" like we've had a dictator. maybe megalomaniac is more appropriate ;] |
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| outbackredux |
The founders weren't saints. They did however develop a form of govt that has endured. No other country in the world still has the same form of govt now as they had 200+ years ago. Granted aspects of our govt has been bastardized but our basic type of govt has not changed. The founders had slaves for the same reasons everyone had slaves. Chief amoung those reasons was that slaves (blacks)were not thought of as "whole" human beings. They did however establish a form of govt that allowed for that mistake to be corrected without changing that govt. Quite an accomplishment. Consider the fact that in some parts of Africa slavery still exsists to this day. This govt also allowed women having the right to vote again without a change in the basic form of govt. I'd say that they deserve their place in history. If not for this country I'm sure I'd either be a bar of soap or a lamp shade long ago, if I was ever born to begin with. With all it's flaws it's the only place on earth to live.
If your neighbor or one of your family whom was out spoken disappeared you wouldn't know it? After some of the letters I've written and sent I'd be missing!
Also no one has yet to tell me what rights they've lost to the patriot act, how it has personally affected them. I'm still waiting to hear that.
The rich run things because they are rich. Nobody goes to poor people looking for a job. The thing is most anyone can become rich in this counrty. A lot of other countries you must be born into money to have money.
Fox news talking points? I haven't tuned into any of these alphbet channels for years. I get most of my news from international sources. We have a free press all right free to report only the news they want us to hear. With a Saudia's owning 20+% of fox I wouldn't trust them to report the weather. |
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| Mylläri |
Now kids, don't make me get my bundle'o'switches out to settle this! :14:
To start with the premise of this thread, it does not surprise me that the RNC wants to distance themselves from Ole'Dubya. At this point its a matter of political survival for them to chastise the King of Lame Ducks. The can call Bush a Socialist all they want and I would say they would be correct under the caveat that refers to Authoritarian corporate welfare "socialism" aka fascism.
The main problem I see is that anything labeled as "socialism" or "socialistic" in America has been cast in a negative light for decades. While I would never want the U.S. to become a Marxist Socialist state like Chavez's Venezuela or an authoritarian Stalinist socialism-to-communism state like the old Soviet Union, I will say that a healthy does of socialistic domestic policy along the lines of what the Nordic counties have would vastly improve American society.
That all being said, the issues we have with the American government IMO are not about left and right but rather about authoritarian "Big Government." I would think that perhaps it would be a good thing for America to collapse, not in an anarchic sense but rather so that society can rebuild itself for the better good. History shows us that every government that has gotten "too big for its britches" has eventually collapsed and typically what comes afterwards is far better.
Only time will tell, for now though who really gives a **** about George W. Bush and what wants to do over the next two weeks? As bad as his intentions may be I think it would be better to focus on what *****'s intentions are post-Bush. |
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| outbackredux |
Mylläri, I understand where your coming from, and it sounds good and reasonible. The problems are that the consistution would have to be changed which should have been done back in the 30's to honestly accomadate social security etc.... Also after 70 years of socialism lite here and the failure of socialist policies around the world it's clear that it doesn't work and govt doesn't do it well. Trying to add socialism to a captialist society is like trying to add water to oil. It don't mix. Since capitalism has a proven track record the proof being in 200+ years we blew by every other country on the planet I say stick with a winner. Up until these bailouts most of the national debt was due to social programs especially SS. Besides the military which is more funded than run by govt just what is that govt does well?
The only way for socialism to have a chance of sucess would require the govt be involved in even more of our lives. I can't imagine a lot of people want that. |
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| russd |
| i sure don't want more govt in my life right now. keep me safe do some regulating and such but don't play games with the economy. which i think they are about to do again... |
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| ETC |
unfortunately they have to give the economy a huge inflationary shot in the a$$ with printed money. leaving "it" alone [with "it" being wall street and the economy] is why we're where we're at right now. one could argue that they didn't completely ignore it, they took bribes to remove any oversight or regulation and allowed the sec [which is wholly owned and operated by wall street] to "look the other way" when it came to people like madoff. there are some on wall street that tried to tell them what was going on but, they were ignored. the bank christmas present was a disaster, it should not have happened, people are now concerned that any stimulus package will be the same unsupervised pointless giveaway. personally i say the government needs to get all that money back and try again, with a plan this time.
bush proved that the constitution is a very flexible document if you have the right person interpret it. all they have to do is say whatever they want to do is protecting us from terrorists and voila, it's legal.
the "patriot act" essentially nullifies the first, fourth and fifth amendments. has it affected me personally ? yes, the greatest thing about this country is the premise that it's citizens have rights that cannot be circumvented by it's government. the patriot act basically allows the government to declare anyone a "terrorist" and effectively remove any rights that person believes they have against illegal search and seizure, the right to habeas corpus, the right of privacy. |
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| outbackredux |
the patriot act basically allows the government to declare anyone a "terrorist" and effectively remove any rights that person believes they have against illegal search and seizure, the right to habeas corpus, the right of privacy
Again I ask who has this happen to?? Did it happen to you? Are you posting from Gitmo? The flexiblity of the consistution was 1st discovered by FDR who stacked the Supreme Court with enough leftist judges to allow SS to be "consistutional". It's been down hill ever since. The govt is charged with providing for the general welfare but only whitin the confines of the power granted to it by the consistution.
SS and the great society programs have done a lot more damage to this country than the patriot act ever will. Didn't those rights you speak of get suspended during the civil war? I can cite examples of people back then getting deported and imprisoned. |
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| Mylläri |
quote: Originally posted by outbackredux
Mylläri, I understand where your coming from, and it sounds good and reasonible. The problems are that the consistution would have to be changed which should have been done back in the 30's to honestly accomadate social security etc.... Also after 70 years of socialism lite here and the failure of socialist policies around the world it's clear that it doesn't work and govt doesn't do it well. Trying to add socialism to a captialist society is like trying to add water to oil. It don't mix. Since capitalism has a proven track record the proof being in 200+ years we blew by every other country on the planet I say stick with a winner. Up until these bailouts most of the national debt was due to social programs especially SS. Besides the military which is more funded than run by govt just what is that govt does well?
The only way for socialism to have a chance of sucess would require the govt be involved in even more of our lives. I can't imagine a lot of people want that. | |
I don't exactly understand what brand of socialism you are referring to when you say "70 years of socialism lite." When I refer to socialistic domestic policies like that of the Nordic countries I refer to programs FUNDED by the government (and yes, though higher taxation) like a universal single payor healthcare system, not nationally socialized programs which the government fully operates like the VA medical system for veterans.
I don't like paying taxes and I honestly don't feel the need for FICA or the IRS. But they are institutions that most likely won't go away soon and neither will the direct taxation of the masses in America. I'm most concerned with what we get for our tax dollars which is pretty much nothing for what pay in direct taxation. I do believe our money could be better spent on government funded healthcare, secondary education, etc. Wishful thinking? Yes, of course.
That is the "socialism" or "socialistic" brand of policy I'm referring to and you are dead wrong (like many others who say the same thing) when you say that these policies have failed around the world, they don't work, government is inefficient in its practice of these policies, etc. That may be the case in the U.S. but please don't go so far to make America the barometer for the world. If you've ever been to a Nordic country or any other "socialized" country for an extended period of time and had experience with those who have lived under these policies then please elaborate on your first hand experiences. |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by Mylläri
I don't exactly understand what brand of socialism you are referring to when you say "70 years of socialism lite." When I refer to socialistic domestic policies like that of the Nordic countries I refer to programs FUNDED by the government (and yes, though higher taxation) like a universal single payor healthcare system, not nationally socialized programs which the government fully operates like the VA medical system for veterans.
I don't like paying taxes and I honestly don't feel the need for FICA or the IRS. But they are institutions that most likely won't go away soon and neither will the direct taxation of the masses in America. I'm most concerned with what we get for our tax dollars which is pretty much nothing for what pay in direct taxation. I do believe our money could be better spent on government funded healthcare, secondary education, etc. Wishful thinking? Yes, of course.
That is the "socialism" or "socialistic" brand of policy I'm referring to and you are dead wrong (like many others who say the same thing) when you say that these policies have failed around the world, they don't work, government is inefficient in its practice of these policies, etc. That may be the case in the U.S. but please don't go so far to make America the barometer for the world. If you've ever been to a Nordic country or any other "socialized" country for an extended period of time and had experience with those who have lived under these policies then please elaborate on your first hand experiences. | |
The experience I have is the fact that these other countries have been around for hundreds if not over a thousand years, in the case of China for example thousands of years. In less than 200 this country blew by them all because of the freedom that was supported by limited govt and the free market. People don't leave here on inner tubes or homemade hot ballons. They don't risk their lives walking across deserts to go the other countries. They don't leave their famlies here to start a new life somewhere eles. People do that to come here! When the govt is able to take money from some people and give it to others who have done nothing to earn it in the form of money or services that to me is socialism. Nobody can convince me that over %60 of our yearly budget should go to social programs and retirement benefits to policitions. That %60 should be in the hands of the people whom generated and earned it. I don't believe we should turn our backs on those who thru no fault of their own can't earn a living but this crap is out of control. You should talk to people who lived in Eastern Europe and now live here, thay are scared to death because they see what they ran from happening here and there's no where left to go. The govt doesn't fund anything until they take money from people. People fund these program of which you write. No govt anywhere even earned a dime. It's taken by force for without force govt can have nothing. Try not paying for awhile men with guns will show up at your home sooner or later. |
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| outbackredux |
Here a more relavent thread to catalog the more outrageous mistakes made by our new president.
1.Leon Panetta for CIA director.:eek: Probably the only person less qualified than *****. |
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| russd |
| voting present again... |
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| ETC |
| as usual, i disagree ;] |
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| firsttimesubaru |
| he is not our president yet, he is still a senator until the 20th |
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| ETC |
not sure how you turned a nordic country with a "socialist" type healthcare system into cuba ..... or are refugees coming from denmark and sweden on innertubes ? maybe sliding across the border from canada ?
the idea that you have to be a victim of the patriot act to oppose it is ridiculous. did russians have to be sent to the gulag to understand that stalins policies were a potential threat ?
the idea that we are a free country and the government has the loophole to take that freedom away whenever it wants is oxymoronic. for someone who wants smaller less invasive government, you take a strange stance on giving them carte blanche over your freedom.
i don't recall saying that suspension of civil rights during the civil war was ok, but, in the case of two ideological factions of citizens fighting within a country, i don't see that as unusual since there is no unbiased judiciary system to enforce those rights. i also don't see any relevance to this discussion.
gw's idea of "fighting for your freedom by takin it away" is pretty much representative of everything this administration has done. if people will swallow that, they'll swallow anything .... many did and still do .... |
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| ETC |
| yep, still 13 days for gw to screw things up ;] |
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| firsttimesubaru |
| politics on a car forum, that gives me a good laugh |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by ETC
not sure how you turned a nordic country with a "socialist" type healthcare system into cuba ..... or are refugees coming from denmark and sweden on innertubes ? maybe sliding across the border from canada ?
the idea that you have to be a victim of the patriot act to oppose it is ridiculous. did russians have to be sent to the gulag to understand that stalins policies were a potential threat ?
the idea that we are a free country and the government has the loophole to take that freedom away whenever it wants is oxymoronic. for someone who wants smaller less invasive government, you take a strange stance on giving them carte blanche over your freedom.
i don't recall saying that suspension of civil rights during the civil war was ok, but, in the case of two ideological factions of citizens fighting within a country, i don't see that as unusual since there is no unbiased judiciary system to enforce those rights. i also don't see any relevance to this discussion.
gw's idea of "fighting for your freedom by takin it away" is pretty much representative of everything this administration has done. if people will swallow that, they'll swallow anything .... many did and still do .... | |
ETC sounds like someone is using your login again.:D :D |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by firsttimesubaru
he is not our president yet, he is still a senator until the 20th | |
You'd think he is the way he's talked about. They swore in the new senate yesterday he wasn't their I think he's in the twlight zone. |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by firsttimesubaru
politics on a car forum, that gives me a good laugh | |
The govt has been telling the cars companies for years how many mpg's car have to get. Now the govt is buying into the car co with bailout $$ Pretty soon they'll be telling them how make cars and how many to make. Not to mention land closures by the govt of off road rec areas. I'd say politics has been injected in the automotive world. |
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| The_Lizard |
I'm nipping this one in the bud. Outbackredux brings another non-subaru political piss fest to the board and I'm tired of it.
If you want to gripe about politics, take it to a political board. While you're at it, talk up Outbacks there and see what responses you get. |
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| @-e-2d |
This is off topic... why was this thread closed?!!
*****'s Bloopers |
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| @-e-2d |
Please don't forget that this is America.
And our right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!! |
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| outbackredux |
The Village
Anything Generally Off-Topic and NON-Subaru related. Unless the moderator doesn't like the off-topic non subaru related subject. Calling our current prez a dictator is fine. Hey it's their site. |
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| rockhopjohn |
| It has more to do with the inflammatory nature of the thread. We are all for free speech, and have allowed for quite a lot of political discussion (which many boards ban outright), but a lot of the discussion of late has been breeding divisiveness on the board, which is not the atmosphere that we are interested in promoting. |
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| The_Lizard |
| This is not a political board. I put O's name on the censored-words list. |
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| Mylläri |
quote: Originally posted by rockhopjohn
It has more to do with the inflammatory nature of the thread. We are all for free speech, and have allowed for quite a lot of political discussion (which many boards ban outright), but a lot of the discussion of late has been breeding divisiveness on the board, which is not the atmosphere that we are interested in promoting. | |
I concur with this statement, even though I'm probably the biggest offender of this standard in the history of Outback.org. I've grown tired of it all as well so take it elsewhere guys.
Forum Rules: http://subaruoutback.org/forums/sho...?s=&threadid=32 |
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| Mylläri |
quote: Originally posted by outbackredux
I'd say politics has been injected in the automotive world. | |
And here I thought this thread was about the RNC labeling Bush a socialist :rolleyes: |
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| outbackredux |
| Yeah, this thread has gone off subject it should be closed.:16: |
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| Boxxerace |
I don't think a thread has to have everyone agreeing on everything for it to stay open. None of us are "sheeple" I hope. The basic rules of the forum is to keep things civilized and not-personal (aka: flaming is a no-no).
Frankly, I don't know how anyone can argue against the statement that says President Bush is a fiscal Liberal. I am not sure if windfall spending falls into socialistic behavior, at least in the definition most refer too.
Traditionally, many modern Democrats were Fiscal Conservatives and Social Liberals, but that mold has changed. Likewise, Republicans have gone all over the board as well, but often were more Fiscally liberal or maybe in the middle (notable exceptions here and there) and obviously are more conservative socially.
That said, party politics do not really represent America and all her colors. We just generally fall to whatever political party sorta relates the most I think.
Either way, what we are facing is this:
- Large, arguably excessive spending by Congress and the President
- A reduction of liberties by Congress, the Executive and the Judicial branch.
- An incoming president who's policies seem to indicate someone who is fiscally in the middle or perhaps liberal, something of additional concern coming from "just charge it" current administration.
There is no question, none of this can be pinned on anyone soley. This is NOT a political problem of one party or individual. This is a problem that permeates ALL of our government. The problem has only worsened as our government and liability has grown. This is one of the chief reasons why I have grown into being more of a libertarian and fiscal conservative.
I don't think there is a solution at this point, we have gone too far both Federally and personally as Americans. My only hope is that we shrink our government and its liabilities greatly and simply focus on enabling us as individuals to grow strong and responsible business with little burden.
:1: That's all for now. |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by Boxxerace
I don't think a thread has to have everyone agreeing on everything for it to stay open. None of us are "sheeple" I hope. The basic rules of the forum is to keep things civilized and not-personal (aka: flaming is a no-no).
Frankly, I don't know how anyone can argue against the statement that says President Bush is a fiscal Liberal. I am not sure if windfall spending falls into socialistic behavior, at least in the definition most refer too.
Traditionally, many modern Democrats were Fiscal Conservatives and Social Liberals, but that mold has changed. Likewise, Republicans have gone all over the board as well, but often were more Fiscally liberal or maybe in the middle (notable exceptions here and there) and obviously are more conservative socially.
That said, party politics do not really represent America and all her colors. We just generally fall to whatever political party sorta relates the most I think.
Either way, what we are facing is this:
- Large, arguably excessive spending by Congress and the President
- A reduction of liberties by Congress, the Executive and the Judicial branch.
- An incoming president who's policies seem to indicate someone who is fiscally in the middle or perhaps liberal, something of additional concern coming from "just charge it" current administration.
There is no question, none of this can be pinned on anyone soley. This is NOT a political problem of one party or individual. This is a problem that permeates ALL of our government. The problem has only worsened as our government and liability has grown. This is one of the chief reasons why I have grown into being more of a libertarian and fiscal conservative.
I don't think there is a solution at this point, we have gone too far both Federally and personally as Americans. My only hope is that we shrink our government and its liabilities greatly and simply focus on enabling us as individuals to grow strong and responsible business with little burden.
:1: That's all for now. | |
You are correct however no body wants to hear it: This is not a political board.
I've grown tired of it all as well so take it elsewhere guys. |
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| Hooray |
| soooo.....whats new with palin |
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| Boxxerace |
Peter Schiff of Euro Pacific Capital warns that a proposal of this kind is comparable to an individual trying to “forestall a personal recession by taking out newer, bigger loans when the old loans can’t be repaid.”
He explains, “Governments cannot create but merely redirect. When the government spends, the money has to come from somewhere. If the government doesn’t have a surplus, then it must come from taxes. If taxes don’t go up, then it must come from increased borrowing. If lenders won’t lend, then it must come from the printing press, which is where all these bailouts are headed. But each additional dollar printed diminishes the value of those already in circulation. Something cannot be effortlessly created from nothing.” |
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| outbackredux |
quote: Originally posted by Hooray
soooo.....whats new with palin | |
who cares at this point - not me |
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| Boxxerace |
quote: Originally posted by outbackredux
who cares at this point - not me | |
I don't think that was rhetorical . ;)
Let's keep the focus on topic and not personal. Thanks. |
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| outbackredux |
| Boxxerace, Everything you have stated is absolutely correct. Every dollar they throw at this is making it worse and prolonging what is going to be a tough recovery. As a society we don't think it's right that people should have to suffer in times like these, but we will. I long ago did what I could to get my finances in order. I don't have any debt except my mortgage and if I can't wear, eat it, shoot it or don't absolutely need it I don't buy. It's to late to do much eles but mitigate the suffering of me and mine as much as I can. I suggest everyone eles do the same. I'm sitting back to watch the other shoe drop. |
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