Airbag Recall - Page 18 - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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post #171 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 02:24 PM
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But wait aren't you livid and outraged? Subaru is trying to kill one of your passengers.
Nah, it's not Subaru that's trying to kill you. This debacle is costing the car makers a fortune in likely unrecoverable expenses given Takata's bankruptcy protection plan. Now my opinion of Takata is a different story. They likely knew for quite some time before it became public knowledge that their components had become weaponized.


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post #172 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 06:36 PM
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Nah, it's not Subaru that's trying to kill you. This debacle is costing the car makers a fortune in likely unrecoverable expenses given Takata's bankruptcy protection plan. Now my opinion of Takata is a different story. They likely knew for quite some time before it became public knowledge that their components had become weaponized.

What the **** is going wrong with the world- level headed people on forums are just ruining the internet.

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post #173 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-27-2019, 09:34 PM
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Hey, I get it. I'm really no fun at all. That's the downside of being an engineer! We were taught to think and deal in facts.

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post #174 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 12:38 PM
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How could it possibly be a "bad thing" for vehicle owners to be immediately informed of a potentially life threatening issue; regardless of when the "fix" might be available?

Why shouldn't vehicle owners be provided said information in order to independently evaluate and act upon the risks at play vs. having this decision made for them by default (as a result of not disclosing information)?
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post #175 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 12:56 PM
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How could it possibly be a "bad thing" for vehicle owners to be immediately informed of a potentially life threatening issue; regardless of when the "fix" might be available?
Because it then fills these forums with drivel from the safety police.

Then again, I guess we get it anyway when they don't notify immediately.
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post #176 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 09:21 PM
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Because most would not fully understand the statistical significance of the age & climate on the relative risk, so they would all start screaming at their dealership to "FIX MY UNSAFE DEATHTRAP NOW!!!" And of course the dealers couldn't do so as the supply simply wasn't there.

So this was handled in a coordinated (across multiple car makers) and controlled fashion, in an effort to ensure those at greatest risk received priority, then gradually working down the list.

In other words, the only rational way to deal with a situation like this.
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post #177 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 03:24 PM
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Because most would not fully understand the statistical significance of the age & climate on the relative risk, so they would all start screaming at their dealership to "FIX MY UNSAFE DEATHTRAP NOW!!!" And of course the dealers couldn't do so as the supply simply wasn't there.

So this was handled in a coordinated (across multiple car makers) and controlled fashion, in an effort to ensure those at greatest risk received priority, then gradually working down the list.

In other words, the only rational way to deal with a situation like this.
I agree with you there would likely be an enormous and immediate deluge, but your "rational answer" is nonetheless oriented almost entirely from the perspective of logistical fulfillment vs. consumer empowerment.

If a defect rises to the level to warrant a recall, it has clearly passed a significant safety threshold. Simply because a situation might be variable & fluid across several factors as it relates to the "demographics" of different vehicles, does that negate the existence of there ultimately being a time bomb under the dash?

While you might be 100% correct about relative risk assessment being minimal, do we not all have different tolerances for what risks we are willing to accept?

More to the point: why should any consumer be forced to absorb an unanticipated risk - by virtue of having information withheld - in order to subsidize the costs resulting from the mistakes of those seeking a make a profit?
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post #178 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 03:31 PM
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why should any consumer be forced to absorb an unanticipated risk - by virtue of having information withheld - in order to subsidize the costs resulting from the mistakes of those seeking a make a profit?
The key point is that *there was no choice*. It was logistically impossible to service all of the Takata airbags using ammonium nitrate propellant; the supply simply did not exist. So what could be done? Tell everybody "your car is unsafe" (even though statistically that wasn't accurate) or prioritize the notifications & service based on risk?

I'm 100% convinced the end result of informing everyone before sufficient supply existed would have been to feed a backyard "how to disable your unsafe airbag" minority. And that would have led to far more deaths (either from accidents while trying to disable the airbags or from disabled airbags not preventing death in an accident) than the "dangerous" airbags.
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post #179 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 03:49 PM
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The key point is that *there was no choice*. It was logistically impossible to service all of the Takata airbags using ammonium nitrate propellant; the supply simply did not exist. So what could be done? Tell everybody "your car is unsafe" (even though statistically that wasn't accurate) or prioritize the notifications & service based on risk?

I'm 100% convinced the end result of informing everyone before sufficient supply existed would have been to feed a backyard "how to disable your unsafe airbag" minority. And that would have led to far more deaths (either from accidents while trying to disable the airbags or from disabled airbags not preventing death in an accident) than the "dangerous" airbags.
Why would it have to be a general "your car is unsafe" message and not a more detailed account of the state of affairs? Of course there was a choice, it's just that the consequences of immediate full disclosure would be enormous for the industry and many consumers.

Your take on the way reality might have played out (re: disabling airbag) is not unreasonable, and perhaps there's a utilitarian argument to be made on this front; however, this also sets a precedent. What about the next recall that isn't quite so "slow motion", yet regulators (or powers that be) adopt a similar posture?
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post #180 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 04:06 PM
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take it from me; your car is NOT safe.

no one's is.

there's no such thing as a safe car.

with every mile driven or hour spent in a car, you're increasing the likelihood of a tire blow-out or fire or wreck.

Utopia is not an option.

There IS something related to psychology/human nature here though. people are much more likely to accept risk they choose themselves, than risk they have no/little control over. Locally, there was a victim of a horrible elevator accident. And the story has been on the news a LOT, there're investigations, lawsuits, fingerpointing....etc. But stairs/staircases injure THOUSANDS more people than elevators. yet I never see any of those injuries on the news. Yeah, there's risk getting in an elevator, but choosing the stairs is VASTLY more risky. Yet, we feel 'in control' on the stairs - the elevator makes us 'passive' riders after we choose to get aboard.

I think about 30,000 people are killed annually in cars. If we all were in autonomous vehicles and 'only' 15,000 people were killed annually - I bet folks would feel 'robot car deaths' were at 'epidemic' proportion and we'd be in a national shutdown 'until something is done!!!'

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