02 H4 acting a little boggy / spazzy. - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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02 H4 acting a little boggy / spazzy.

plain jane 2.5 2002 4EAT sedan is bogging down a bit climbing long steep grades when you are driving normal and easing off,
(easing off like cresting a steep hill and wanting to be slow on mph / engine speed, due changing road conditions).

if you just stomp the accelerator to climb the hill with gusto, it will climb great.

just noticing today: it gets a little flat footed at stop lights / stop signs. (and takes a second to get going with a stab at the gas)

______

battery is a 2015, I think the battery wires are that old too, so pretty clean and good

no change in running it in Front Wheel Drive mode. (I tried that for the first time ever)

ATF fluid still looks good (cranberry color and checked running), 122,000 miles on car, with maybe 25,000 on the Dex 3 type in there.
front and read diff oil swapped 25,000 ago also.



No dash lights, but pulled some codes with Rom-Raider:

P0712, 724, 768, 1086, 1199. cleared them out,

then got: P0712, 763, 1086, 1199.


its not that bad to drive. a little bit annoying though, been living with it for a while, just kind of feel its worsening.

I don't know if it is costing MPG.

(this old rust bucket outback sedan can still get 29mpg highway when the weather is nice on plain 87 octane).


I will try to make some TCU and ECU logs in a couple days. any ideas? ( @plain OM @Glennda5id @ntippet etc)

(will look for mouse chewing on Trans wires)


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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleeye View Post
. . . but pulled some codes with Rom-Raider:

P0712, 724, 768, 1086, 1199. cleared them out,

then got: P0712, 763, 1086, 1199.
. . .

I will try to make some TCU and ECU logs in a couple days. any ideas? . . . (will look for mouse chewing on Trans wires)
Odd bunch of codes. Not sure if they are valid.

The 2002 FSM has five-character (i.e., P####) transmission codes in the list of engine trouble codes, but none of them correspond to the codes Romraider identified.

I looked at the Romraider definitions file, and found that P1086 and P1199 are for TGV and Differential pressure resp., (not likely on the plain Jane 2.5), the 763 and 768 are for shift solenoids C and D (none identified as C or D in the FSM), and 724 is for a torque converter "brake switch". (These are all Romraider descriptors and might not be the same as Subaru uses.) The P0712 is the only one that is somewhat recognizable, namely, ATF Temperature sensor Low, but the only trouble code reference to the ATF temp sensor in the FSM seems to be P0710.

Did you try the method of reading AT codes using the AT Oil Temp light? https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums...odes-dtcs.html. Perhaps it will reveal only one code.

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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 08:32 AM
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I would try a battery disconnect reset.

any work done recently? thinking pinched wires....? is the trans pan dented?

refresh ground wires?
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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 01:12 PM
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Log any PID's related to the Torque Converter Clutch.
Interested to see what that data shows.

Does the bogging happen regardless of gear?
Does the bogging happen under / over a certain RPM only?
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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 03:17 PM
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Strange codes is right. Can you try pulling codes using FreeSSM?
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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennda5id View Post
Strange codes is right. Can you try pulling codes using FreeSSM?
this particular 2002 H4 was made in November 2001, and FreeSSM does not link to its TCU (just too early for plain jane H4).

(FreeSSM works with my 2002 H6 wagon though made in June 2001)

_______

@plain OM
I got those with Rom-Raider. and I wonder if I am using the right definitions, or if there are good ones for this particular car/ TCU.

Torque Pro for android does not link to this TCU.

I did not try grounding a plug to watch the flashes yet. ...Yet. (cold garage and not enough daylight hours kind of suck....so I maybe out in a paid garage on appointment using various mechanic hand-helds, and a proper pick probe or test light).



_______

@1 Lucky Texan, I cleaned the codes out with Rom-raider and they cam right back, ....I will disconnect the battery and give that a try.

I will get this up a lift sometime looking for rodent damage /nicked wires, but no damage at all. just rust and corrosion. (fist sized rust in the rear doors, it lived a hard life outside before I got it, ...= the previous owner's favorite car for driving in bad weather on salted sand ....and they still miss it)

_______

@ntippet if you climb a mountain like Ken Block on Pikes Peak day, you won't know there is a problem with the car at all. (holds 2nd and 3rd steady).

________

I don't drive this one much at this time of year, (plain new all seasons on it right now, and they don't bite snow or ice very well, and the H6 wagon has studded tires),

So this could take a few weeks to sort.

Thanks all for the ideas so far,

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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 08:10 PM
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Can we get a video of you driving like Ken Block please.
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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Can we get a video of you driving like Ken Block please.
The wagon is a lot more fun to drive at speed. easy / effortless / composed. and with the studded tires it does not spin and the VDC activation light does not come on,
(until you purposely break loose )

the sedan with the same set of studded tires on it last winter, needed a whole lot of emergency steering correction with its LSD rear.
(I mean you could still go out in the real bad stuff,....but boy will you be tired after 2 hours and 60 miles) ...and as nice as it is to ride in on bare pavement,
its a bit busy in the steering going bare pavement to messy.

and running up a mountain at 60mph with ones foot planted trying to keep the car from bogging down does produce such need for emergency correction.
(they sand the living shiit out of that grade).

_______

So if I were to chase down Bill Caswell with his antique $500 BMW 318 rally car,...I think I would take the H6 VDC wagon. (while we clog the track in front of the likes of Ken Block).

but as I just got the wagon out of the body shop from rust mitigation, ...I think I would round up a dented but unrusted 212hp H6 VDC sedan...as the perfect slow rally car.

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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
I got those with Rom-Raider. and I wonder if I am using the right definitions, or if there are good ones for this particular car/ TCU.

Torque Pro for android does not link to this TCU.
Raises an interesting possibility. In the FSM, as mentioned earlier, there are five-character AT trouble codes listed in the Engine Diagnostics section. The list, which also includes all the engine-related codes, follows a page for using the Subaru Select Monitor. The SSM is connected to the ECM, which leads to the possibility that the five-character AT codes can be read from the ECU. (The "read trouble codes" for the AT, in the AT section of the FSM only refers to the two digit codes.) This, overall, suggests that there's two ways to access AT codes, and if there's access to the ECM memory, the five character AT codes would appear, if there are any. (Guess we'll only know if there's a case of the AT Oil Temp light flashing 16 times, and a code reader is connected that accesses the ECM.)

Which raises another point: If the AT Oil Temp light works (e.g. when the ignition is at On), and, it is not flashing then or after the engine is started, then that usually means there's no active AT trouble codes to read.

Quote:
I did not try grounding a plug to watch the flashes yet. ...Yet. (cold garage and not enough daylight hours kind of suck....so I maybe out in a paid garage on appointment using various mechanic hand-helds, and a proper pick probe or test light).
No grounding a plug. See attached.
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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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will pick this up on Saturday / Sunday, when I have daylight and laptop time.

I hope everyone is enjoying a "old time" car problem thread,

...without discussion of lame-o factory batteries.




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