EJ22 swap into EJ25D DOHC vehicle - Page 2 - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-06-2015, 07:36 AM
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This is awesome! I may be doing this in the very near future...
Hahahahahaahaaaaaa yeahhhhh. Not worth it now, should have done this months ago instead of head gasket repair.



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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-18-2015, 05:06 PM
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I for one do appreciate the time you take, and doubly appreciate your no BS answers, thanx,S
I was just looking for your thread on EJ25D head gaskets,...and its gone....going to put in a EJ22 instead.?


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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 01:18 PM
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How many EJ22's are left? Seems like everyone from Vanagon and other VW to replicar and old Suby owners are seeking that engine, and it brings me to wonder about their continuing availability.

Is there still a JDM supply? Or has it come to haunting junkyards in hopes of finding this solution-providing engine model?

After all, they weren't THAT reliable. I had one that 1)lost cam a seal under warranty, then 2) lost that cam seal again under repair warranty (at which point Subaru informed me that they were disallowing my future engine warranty claims because my oil receipts were deemed inadequate, but I think it was really because I continued my commute to their repair reception area and left what remained of the oil pouring out onto their apron), then not long after, 3)developed an on again/off again horrendously loud piston racket after startup that I suspect resulted from Subaru letting the car sit for three weeks unrepaired when I brought their failed cam seal repair back to them, that noise continued very embarrassingly until in it's grand finale' 4) it blew a hole in #3 piston big enough to drive through at 113k miles.

I'd rather have had a potential head gasket issue, I think.

Anyway, after the engine blew I found an indy repair guy who had set up shop after nine years working for our local Suby dealer who sourced a JDM long block, did the change in under a week, and charged me exactly $406.74 (I've never forgotten this one time in which I felt like an auto repair business hadn't at least tried to screw me and I hope the fellow thrived).

That JDM engine went 175k miles without issue until I sold the car running fine with 285k miles. I felt I was pushing my luck, but have often wished I'd kept the car. It was the last of the maual low range transfercase and I've never felt that the '98 5sp AWD OB version measured up to the older GL's.

Last edited by Hill; 08-02-2015 at 09:33 AM. Reason: to change "GT" for the correct "GL". A memory blip.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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They're easily found here, PNW has exorbitantly high prices and demand.

That's a terrible EJ22 and dealership experience but it is anecdotal. I'm surprised you went back to Subaru after that, the service is worse than the engine. If every engine with one bad experience is deemed "unreliable" - then every engine ever made is unreliable. I get it - it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and I avoid stuff for the same reason (like the EJ25) and yes please avoid the EJ22 forever because you'd hate it more to have another issue! (which I've seen the EJ25 have innumberable times). But one experience is a far cry from a robust statistically quantifiable representation of engine reliability played out over a quarter century now.

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-02-2015, 10:00 AM
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They're easily found here, PNW has exorbitantly high prices and demand.

That's a terrible EJ22 and dealership experience but it is anecdotal. I'm surprised you went back to Subaru after that, the service is worse than the engine. If every engine with one bad experience is deemed "unreliable" - then every engine ever made is unreliable. I get it - it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and I avoid stuff for the same reason (like the EJ25) and yes please avoid the EJ22 forever because you'd hate it more to have another issue! (which I've seen the EJ25 have innumberable times). But one experience is a far cry from a robust statistically quantifiable representation of engine reliability played out over a quarter century now.
Sure, it was a dealership issue yet the EJ22 were notorious for dropping oil in a somewhat dramatic style, mostly through the cam seals. Better seals, better technique would and often did resolve that one.

You loft such arguments in favor of EJ22 yet drive the six cylinder instead. Does that not make your anectdotal condemnations of the newer four cylinder also hearsay? This goes to my question directly.

My question is to this net driven adolation of the older engine. It has raised the prices for those engines and I wonder who really is benefitting in light of the fact that the EJ25 engine problems, so often cited, were in fact only on an order of some 10% of overall usage and which have effectively been addressed both in the aftermarket and by Subaru through better sealing/better technique to a point that few owners of newer or update engines experience the cited problems today. It's usually more economical to fix what you have than to enter a mad seeking for a holy grail, a grail generated in whole by a few forum reported direct experiences then blown out of proportion by second hand internet gossip.

Is all.
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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-02-2015, 10:43 AM
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For those of us who have had our hands greasy with both engines on more than one occasion, the desirability of the EJ18/22 is not blown out of proportion.

Given there was no 6 cyl option for the 1st gen, I'm not really seeing the conflict surrounding the fact that Gary drives an EZ30D 2nd gen and has a preference for the EJ22 over the EJ25 for 1st gens.

The EJ25D is more costly and difficult to work on than the EJ22 or EJ18. That's purely objective. . . I can pull up part costs and labor times if you need further proof. Consider valve adjustment if nothing else. . . the bucket & shim arrangement on the 25D is far more costly if you need to grind the valves & set clearances than the simple screw adjusters on the 18/22 and the phase 2 EJ251/2/3 SOHC engines. You've got twice as many cam seals (which seem to be of major concern to you), spark plugs that are more difficult to change, and a timing belt setup with 4 composite pulleys instead of 2 metal ones.

So yeah, the EJ22 is preferred whether you're building an experimental aircraft, converting a Westy, or just wanna keep your 95-99 Outback running a while longer.
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I seem to get a lot of "will xx fit in my car?" emails. . . I'm not the authority on everything Subaru, so I very well may tell you the wrong answer as there's nobody else to check me. Please search or ask via the forums first. . .when I answer you via email, it never gets posted and nobody else can confirm or refute my answer.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-02-2015, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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You loft such arguments
I never argued anything, I'm here to learn and help.

Accurate information and options help people find the best fit for a given situation. This thread presents and option, I'm sorry if it comes across to negative or comparative regarding the EJ25, I really don't care too much about that. It's a great engine in plenty of circumstances and certainly worth repairing, I equally instruct, guide when people need EJ25 help and have repaired people's EJ25 headgaskets for free. Cut me some slack, I'm not that bad of a person I dont' think.

This thread presents another option, because options are good, and it's very attractive for some.
I think it's attractive because:

1. EJ22's are available and cheaper than EJ25's in many areas. see Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market.

Cost and availability alone are frequently attractive, particularly on 20 year old vehicles

2. EJ22's have fewer headgasket issues than EJ25D's.

3. EJ22's blow fewer rod bearings than EJ25's.

This is supported across a wide array of information sources. They can be named, linked too, and found.

If the EJ22 is a worse engine - then tell all, give sources, and show statistically significant failure modes so we can learn to address them. I'm all about it, I love forward movement - headed some where, actually gaining something, winning, and learning. let's do it. name it, claim it, point, link, prove it.

And if we're allowed to laugh a little here - again I'm not arguing or trying to be personal like some of your comments seemed - i'm just discussing and sometimes conversations are funny - seals are a bit funny to mention because the EJ25 and EJ22 have the same seals - same part number in the 1990's and EJ25's have twice as many cam seals of an EJ22 - 4 instead of 2. So statistically speaking (failure rate of a cam seal X every seal installed), they'll have almost twice the failure rate of an EJ22 if viewed as a Fermi problem across decades and 100's of thousands of engines).

(technical note: EJ22 and EJ25 failure rates will differ by very small margins due to heat, head, oil supply differences of design, but those differences will be small compared to the orders of magnitude difference of an EJ25 having twice as many seals and points of failure as an EJ22)

About seals - older seals were worse materials (typically black) than the newer brown (typically) material of OEM seals. Again - true of the EJ25 and lots of other Subaru engines. The older EA82, ER27 stuff had the black seals and they were definitely not as robust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill View Post
You loft such arguments in favor of EJ22 yet drive the six cylinder instead. Does that not make your anectdotal condemnations of the newer four cylinder also hearsay?
I'm not sure what that means?

I drive a 6 cylinder for room, latch (not available in the 90's or 2.2's) and rust has all but ruined the 90's market stuff where I live unless you really just want one.

I did favor the 6 cylinder over the EJ25 to avoid EJ25 headgasket issues and timing belt maintenance. That's a lengthy discussion though, but I'll leave it at that for now.
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 11:16 PM
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Sooo a 1991 EJ22 wouldn't quite plug and play into my 1997 OBW? lol
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-19-2015, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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Sooo a 1991 EJ22 wouldn't quite plug and play into my 1997 OBW? lol
Actually no it doesn't work like you describe but it's easily done.

Bolt a 1995+ intake manifold onto your 1991 EJ22 and follow all the directions in this thread. 94 and earlier all have dual port heads that bolt right up to the EJ25 exhaust, like 1995 EJ22's.

SLAM DUNK
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-12-2015, 12:51 AM
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May I ask. I have a 1997 ej25d obw and just got a 1995 legacy with a 2.2.

Both are 5 speed.

What work would it entail for me to keep the EGR so I can pass emissions? Thanks.


I should note that the 2.5 is running fine. I just rather use it as a project/rally motor in a hatchback shell and would rather the reliable 2.2 in my wagon.

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