A year in - I like it enough, but wouldn't do it again. - Page 9 - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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post #81 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 07:46 PM
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I've also been using my Outback for a year, though it's a 2017 model. Would I lease another one at the end of my current lease? Not if the crappy CVT programming will continue its non-linear behavior, particularly the jerky acceleration from a complete stop. I've had Infiniti Q50 before and while it had its share of issues - I really liked that Infiniti put a "driving mode" selector in it, so when I drove in very slow "stop-and-go" traffic - it accelerated VERY smoothly when put in an "Eco" driving mode. I wish Subaru would add something like this, which would change the way the car uses CVT for more smooth acceleration.

It actually can do that already - when I tried using "X-mode" button, the acceleration was very smooth, without any jerking from CVT, unfortunately "X-Mode" is not meant for constant driving and turns off after certain speed is reached.

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post #82 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:11 PM
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get a base model

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post #83 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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Colorado 4x4 diesels get 28 HWY.

Thats what I was looking at. Fuelly shows an average of 25ish.


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post #84 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 08:14 AM
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Colorado 4x4 diesels get 28 HWY.

Thats what I was looking at. Fuelly shows an average of 25ish.
How are you getting that number? Is that what shows on the dash or by actually math at fill ups? Also did you buy you car new and have you done your first oil change? I found mine went up after the first change, and even better after the second. I’m getting “25ish” calculated with my 3.6. The dash shows 22-23.
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post #85 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 08:29 AM
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Colorado 4x4 diesels get 28 HWY.

Thats what I was looking at. Fuelly shows an average of 25ish.

Considering the way you use your OB (riding around off-road often as you say) I doubt the Colorado will do much better than your OB. My BIL lives in (ironically) Colorado and he off-roads his Colorado quite a bit for his business. He says the fuel economy only impresses him when running long highway trips. Overall the $0.30-$0.50/gallon premium you pay for diesel in most places pretty much wipes out any savings. He originally bought it because the remote area he lives has higher priced gas than diesel. But whenever he leaves town the price flip-flops for the most part.
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post #86 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 09:39 AM
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We're at an interesting point in the automotive world. Back in the day, most upgrades/changes required hardware (you want to retrofit A/C...need hardware, you want power windows/mirrors...hardware). But now with so many things being software based, and people having products that can be updated over-the-air (like cell phones, or smart devices in your home), people are expecting that to flow to their car as well.

For example, you want power folding mirrors, that needs a motor in the housing, so not something that Subaru can "push out" later. But, you want mirror dip (where the mirror turns down within the housing, then comes back up to the previously saved position) when you go into reverse...now we're talking possibly a software code that could be written and integrated to a product line (current or back in the current generation of a model). But what incentive does the manufacturer have to prolong an older model year up to current state product lines? They're not getting a monthly fee for usage (like for cell phones), or a subscription (like in streaming services), so they need you to buy another car to make money (yes, there's maintenance costs, but you don't "need" to go to the dealer for oil changes or XX,XXX mileage/year services, so I'm leaving that out of the equation.)

It'll be interesting to see how things go. Companies like Tesla do offer upgrades to prior customers, some free (patches or bug fixes), and others are at a cost (adding ludicrous mode, or autopilot, etc). Definitely a different world from a decade or so ago.
The incentive is less direct and more long term. No, they wouldn't see a direct impact to the bottom-line today, however, in 7-10 years when that customer goes to buy another car (IIRC, this is the typical ownership period) then at that point they would. I would pay for software improvements if they were offered. One of which you mentioned, and the others would be improvements to the awful headunit and making LKA better along with maybe stop-go for eyesight. I'm not saying it should be 100% free, just that it should be considered as an option to add after purchase and it would go a decent ways for customer retention. Not that I love Tesla, but there is a reason, to some extent, that they have a cult following and it's not always just because it's an EV.


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post #87 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 09:53 AM
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Two things ...

1. A software update isn't simple. It might seem simple to the end user, but actually creating, testing, delivering and supporting the update can be complex. This was the issue with BMW .. my 535i had ~63 ECU's. When one could be updated, it affected many other ECU's, so it was best practice to update them all at the same time to a known matrix of supported firmwares. If one won't update .. you replace that ECU. Therefore ... my local indie shop refused to do ECU updates. He didn't want to be on the hook to replace an unrelated $1000 ECU. Thus, BMW ECU updates are usually only done at dealers under warranty.

To use an analogy to plumbing ... a software update to fix one pipe has to be written to apply to every house's plumbing ... it has to identify whether it's appropriate to fix it, it needs to be tested in all possible configurations, and then supported if something breaks. The fix needs to apply to problem A and B in configurations 1,2,3, problems C D & F in configuration 4, problems A and C in configuration 5 and maybe 6, and not break or make worse things in other configurations etc. It's rare to see a software product that provides a single update to a single customer configuration (we do, but we charge up to $30k for a license to our software and then >$200/hour for development time).

2. I suspect Subaru isn't alone in being slow to provide non-essential software updates. They'll likely do things that will prevent future damage and warranty repairs, or Eyesight updates where safety is concerned, but for things like Bluetooth updates etc. there's no real incentive to put effort into it. As a consumer, we don't know which carmakers are going to be good about improving such things after the sale.
That's explicitly an engineering/design/management problem from the beginning. The design should have been such that it didn't require six new iterations AFTER being put into production. At worst case, there *should* ideally be yearly updates at most in hardware. That sounds more like the contractor is trying to keep their business going after the initial contract is up.
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post #88 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 11:59 AM
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That's explicitly an engineering/design/management problem from the beginning. The [software] design should have been such that it didn't require six new iterations AFTER being put into production. At worst case, there *should* ideally be yearly updates at most in hardware.
Are you sending this reply using Windows, Apple OS, IOS, or Android? If so, I wouldn't think it necessary to explain the difference between theory and reality.
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post #89 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 02:17 PM
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Are you sending this reply using Windows, Apple OS, IOS, or Android? If so, I wouldn't think it necessary to explain the difference between theory and reality.
I use windows and android. Not really relevant. Also, I was speaking to the hardware design. The hardware designs should have been built that it didn't take 6 iterations in a year to get to the proper one that works on the production line. I am an engineer. So yes, I understand theory and reality are different, that is a management/engineering/design issue. I've been told the typical cycle time from concept to production of a new car is about 4-5 years, which seems reasonable. If a terrible company (not in the cars themselves, even if that is debatable, just in function of the company) like Tesla can pick a hardware combination that doesn't require six iterations a year and offer some OTA functionality, then actual car companies can to. There is a difference between not *wanting* to, and not being *able* to. Companies will spend millions on advertising, marketing, etc. But they won't allot a yearly budget toward long term customer satisfaction? What's easier, getting repeat business, or new business? Again, I understand the logistics in making this happen, and I know it's not *easy*, but neither is building a car. However, somehow, a terribly mismanaged company manages to pull this off, so I would think a real car company could do the same.


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post #90 of 119 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 03:39 PM
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About to hit two years of ownership (2015 OB bought used). The car is far from perfect; back from a three-week road trip in a Ford Escape rental this summer, I ended up wishing some features were present in my OB once I got back home. For me the weakest point is the powertrain, with a 2.5 that is certainly not a fun engine to drive, and a 3.6 I found underwhelming during my few hours spent with it.

Still, I'd say that for Eyesight and Quebec-snow-survival-skills alone, I'd probably end up buying an OB again. It's just so practical. But let's face it: I'm just waiting for the 2.4T engine to do a trade in (haven't told my wife about this plan of mine just yet).

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