Things I HATE most about the Subaru Outback (Gen 5) - Page 24 - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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post #231 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 05:23 PM
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I agree Brucey, I think the hate is misplaced.........But why? I drive through a city and suburb, so I would just have to smash on the brakes because there's another red light 100 yards down the road.

.......I think it's all perception. Because they are used to hearing the rev, and shift, and rev, and shift, they think either they're not going fast enough or they're slower off the line......
From my perspective, hate IS NOT misplaced. CVT just is one of those things that looks good on paper but in practice, it fails to deliver the intent.

Its not about strong accelerations to the next stop light, as you've implied. Rather, tis all about being responsive enough to being able to avoid potentially dangerous situations. If one needs to accelerate quickly to get out of the way of something, but cannot, increases the chance to be involved in an unfortunate incident.

I can honestly tell you that its not about the rev and shift versus single continues acceleration. As noted in my earlier posts, I also own Tesla Model 3 that has 1 speed drive. So there is no shifting. It just accelerates, like most EVs. While there are new EVs coming to the market with two-speed transmission, thus far, I see no need to complicate the mechanical aspect of the vehicle with additional speed gear. The point is, it is responsive at all times because the nature of electric motor and the near constant torque availability.

If CVT responded according to the driver input without the significant lag time, I'd have no issue with the transmission. That is not the case. The lag time far exceeds normal modern AT, let alone MTs.

I almost bought Crosstrek with MT instead of OB, but the vehicle lacked interior space and creature comforts - which my wife wanted. So I drive 80+% of the time on fake manual mode (event that has CVT tendencies at time)....

Again, its not misplaced or perceived hate. While I like the rest of the car, CVT will eventually get me to replace it sooner than later...

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post #232 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 05:31 PM
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You would really hate some GM cars with multiple seat heating options. Heat the seat and the back or just heat the back......
...or just heat nuts.

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post #233 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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From my perspective, hate IS NOT misplaced. CVT just is one of those things that looks good on paper but in practice, it fails to deliver the intent.

Its not about strong accelerations to the next stop light, as you've implied. Rather, tis all about being responsive enough to being able to avoid potentially dangerous situations. If one needs to accelerate quickly to get out of the way of something, but cannot, increases the chance to be involved in an unfortunate incident.

I can honestly tell you that its not about the rev and shift versus single continues acceleration. As noted in my earlier posts, I also own Tesla Model 3 that has 1 speed drive. So there is no shifting. It just accelerates, like most EVs. While there are new EVs coming to the market with two-speed transmission, thus far, I see no need to complicate the mechanical aspect of the vehicle with additional speed gear. The point is, it is responsive at all times because the nature of electric motor and the near constant torque availability.

If CVT responded according to the driver input without the significant lag time, I'd have no issue with the transmission. That is not the case. The lag time far exceeds normal modern AT, let alone MTs.

I almost bought Crosstrek with MT instead of OB, but the vehicle lacked interior space and creature comforts - which my wife wanted. So I drive 80+% of the time on fake manual mode (event that has CVT tendencies at time)....

Again, its not misplaced or perceived hate. While I like the rest of the car, CVT will eventually get me to replace it sooner than later...
Do you have any data or preferably video showing CVT engine RPM compared to TPS ? I would especially like seeing this info compared to a 5EAT also from Subaru for the most fair comparison. I matched a 5EAT 3.6 from 30-90 mph with my CVT. When you say the lack of response is dangerous, could you describe it more?

I am sorry if I'm not understanding this and apologize in advance for my lack of understanding to your satisfaction.
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post #234 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 06:58 PM
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I don’t know if any situations personally where I had to accelerate away from something that I couldn’t have proactively slowed down for in advance. That is one of the arguments for people on the 3.6 vs 2.5 thread, people saying power will get you out of harm’s way; but personally I think an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Meaning, plan ahead and be mindful of what’s going on around you.
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post #235 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 09:52 PM
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Other than wishing the fake shift points could be turned off I don't have any particular issues with having a CVT in general. I've kind of assumed that because most of my driving is in rural areas that maybe the complaints are more geared to city driving and the need to accelerate quickly on freeway entrance ramps. Some of that could be either the CVT or the 2.5i engine. But after recently doing some of that kind of driving I just don't see what the complaints are. I certainly had no problem taking off from a stop and hitting 80mph before I had to merge on a typical entrance ramp, and it isn't even like I had my foot to the floor.
I guess it's all about perception and maybe what you were used to previously. I'm perfectly happy with the performance of my wimpy little 2.5i Premium. Now if only I could work out some of the stupid little quirky details that I like to whine about things would be great.
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post #236 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Pilot1226 View Post
I don’t know if any situations personally where I had to accelerate away from something that I couldn’t have proactively slowed down for in advance. That is one of the arguments for people on the 3.6 vs 2.5 thread, people saying power will get you out of harm’s way; but personally I think an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Meaning, plan ahead and be mindful of what’s going on around you.
I guess the old saying applies that when you have a hammer everything starts to look like a nail. Makes the other old saying: "Gonna put the hammer down" make even more sense when applied to driving fast.
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post #237 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 10:51 PM
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Do you have any data or preferably video showing CVT engine RPM compared to TPS ? I would especially like seeing this info compared to a 5EAT also from Subaru for the most fair comparison. I matched a 5EAT 3.6 from 30-90 mph with my CVT. When you say the lack of response is dangerous, could you describe it more?
I think this is a great question. The lag might very well be the programming of the drive-by-wire system and the rate at which the position of the throttle translates to movement in the throttle body. Pedal Commander has built an entire company around people who want to reprogram their throttle response because they feel like their car doesn't respond to the throttle pedal. Anyone want to spend $329.99 to test this?


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post #238 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 10:26 AM
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I agree with your assessment of rural vs city driving. IMO the CVT is more of a PITA in urban situations than rural.

Someone asked about incidences where you need to hit the accelerator and expect the car to go and they couldn't think of any situations. Well I know that I've had such incidences but can't think of them all. There is one that comes to mind. Driving along at about 40 MPH, out of the yard flies a dog. I was in the Jaguar at the time and the trajectory of the dogs run would have placed him directly in front of the car. I either A: tried to brake which may not have happened in time or B: I stomp on the gas and veer to the left a bit which put me ahead of the dog. I chose B and dog was safe.

With the CVT there have been those times where I hit the gas and get the feeling of what the internet explains as a rubber band feeling. The car feels like it paused for a second and then sling shots you. Would that pause have worked in my dog example? I'm guessing it would have been a more dangerous situation for said doggo.

There was another time on a three lane road that the pickup truck lost its gate. I see it sliding on the road and again hit the gas and divert the car out of the way from the oncoming gate.

Quote:
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I've kind of assumed that because most of my driving is in rural areas that maybe the complaints are more geared to city driving and the need to accelerate quickly on freeway entrance ramps..
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post #239 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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I think this is a great question. The lag might very well be the programming of the drive-by-wire system and the rate at which the position of the throttle translates to movement in the throttle body. Pedal Commander has built an entire company around people who want to reprogram their throttle response because they feel like their car doesn't respond to the throttle pedal. Anyone want to spend $329.99 to test this?
I had mine tuned by our neighborhood tuner, XRT.

It really helped the throttle response. Not that I ever had issue with the factory.

I have been running the factory tune for about 18 months as I drive very defensively and the tune also interfered with the X-Mode operation of the vehicle.

@traildogck can tell you all the tales about the magic of tuning, actually.
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post #240 of 628 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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CVT, it does tend to rev higher, so I think people are perceiving the higher-rev in the (pre-2019?) CVT's as a problem or not generating enough power.

Can't we all just get along?
I can drive the 3.6 CVT all day below 2000 rpm. In fact, I usually do.

I can drive it below 1500 rpm all day and still keep up with traffic.

Maybe it's just my driving style why I have no ill will towards the CVT.

The 3.6/CVT combo reminds me of the car I learned to drive on.

A 4.6 V8 Lincoln Mark VIII. Big, boaty, not slow, not fast. Plenty of power down low so it never needed to rev much. You could if you wanted a laugh.

If I wanted a performance car I wouldn't have bought an Outback.

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