Emergency brake in mountains - Page 3 - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 11:41 AM
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Lucky texan,

I didn't know that. I think what upsets me most with the new tech is that I lose control over things. I've never been a big fan of ABS, I'm still not but I've learned to live with it. I didn't have ABS in any car I drove until 2010. I can turn off all the other annoying features but ESC and the emergency brake. Although now that I know ABS will kick in and I can pull it off/on I would not hesitate to take the car down the mountain. I feel pretty safe now. Neither the release and go procedure nor the ABS feature are explained in the manual well. I'm glad I opened this thread. I def learned a lot. Thank you all again.

I remember the first time I rolled through a stop sign in an ABS car on a steep downhill in deep snow. Without ABS, the car will pile up snow in front of the tires and stop. With ABS, that doesn't happen. I expect it now but it was a real "WTF" moment the first time it happened. The same the first time I climbed a steep, snow-covered hill with snow tires and the car came to a halt. After a minute or so thinking the engine had died, it dawned on me that the traction control must be doing it. I found the button to disable traction control and continued on my way. Those are the two winter driving strangenesses between old cars and modern cars. On some cars, it's really hard to figure out how to disable the traction control. On an Escape, it's buried 3 layers deep in some menu on the NAV screen.

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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 11:42 AM
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oh yeah, I dunno if I can get accustomed to an electric p-brake, and I think it's been proven that, while advantageous on a road, ABS can actually extend stopping distance in gravel - maybe other surfaces - still, probably an overall benefit.

cars are filled with compromises, add CAFE rules and what seems to be deteriorating driving 'skilz' among the general population, and we get more lightweight stuff and 'nanny' systems. Low oil, lane keeping, distance to empty, TPMS, etc. There's bound to be some overlooked downsides occasionally to this stuff.


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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 11:48 AM
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I have lost brakes on a 2001 subaru completely ... a previous owner did not route the caliper hose thru the shock. The hose rubbed on the tire and cut the line.
Given the failure you describe, you would have lost only half of the car's braking capability, due to the dual brake circuit redundancy required by law on all new cars sold in the U.S. since the late 1960s.
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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 11:49 AM
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are there still 2 circuits from the master cylinder? That is, if you lose a seal at a caliper, don't you still have (temporarily I guess) 1/2 braking ability from the other front and its diagonal rear pair?
Sure does. It's described in the owner's manual.

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...I assume EyeSight is using the electronic rear brakes on hill descents and anti-collision braking? I never use the e-brake and I'd think it sees enough use from EyeSight that it will be there if I need it.
The manual says the VDC system is responsible for the e-brake function, which I believe has independent control over all 4 wheels. The Gen 5 rear calipers have an integrated motor-driven screw which is used to lock them down when the parking brake is activated. I've never seen mention of this function being used as part of the e-brake, however. Presumably because it's slow and could negatively affect your ability to control the vehicle.
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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tsloyan View Post
I have lost brakes on a 2001 subaru completely ... a previous owner did not route the caliper hose thru the shock. The hose rubbed on the tire and cut the line.
Given the failure you describe, you would have lost only half of the car's braking capability, due to the dual brake circuit redundancy required by law on all new cars sold in the U.S. since the late 1960s.
I completely lost my brakes. The pedal went to the floor and I wasn't stopping. I hear what you are saying. I don't know why this happened. I know I fixed the brake line and the issue was fixed. Werid..
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post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 12:16 PM
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I'm guessing eventually you lost all the fluid...????? or the master cylinder had all air in it?

I'm sure it would FEEL like the brakes weren't working - terrifying.

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post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'm guessing eventually you lost all the fluid...????? or the master cylinder had all air in it?

I'm sure it would FEEL like the brakes weren't working - terrifying.
It was! I wasn't mountain driving yet. Once I tied losing your brakes to mountain driving, I realized that I needed a backup plan in case all goes south. I remember you from before when I was pulling my ez30d engine out. Good to hear from you again. I bought a 2019 3.6 touring.
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post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 06:17 PM
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In Vermont, total brake loss on a 10+ year old car is pretty common. The flexible lines in the front rot and the metal brake lines eventually corrode and fail. Vermont vehicle inspection is pretty picky about making sure emergency brakes work since people actually have to use them.
Doesn't it seem like it would be more productive for them to be picky about inspecting the condition of the brake lines?
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post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 07:15 PM
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Losing he conventional braking system is so rare a thing that it's not worth worrying about. You probably have a better chance of being struck by lightning. Just maintain it well and be done with it.
Struck by lightning? You've got to be kidding!

I've personally lost brakes at least 5 or 6 times in multiple vehicles. Brake lines rust and hoses crack, split and tear. Master cylinders go bad, brake boosters fail, wheel cylinders fail, proportioning valves fail, hydroboost units go bad etc, etc. Not a rare occurrence in any way. I'm a Ford technician at a dealership, I see failed brake systems almost daily.



It's a good idea to know how to stop the car without the service brake.
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post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:54 AM
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I've personally lost brakes at least 5 or 6 times in multiple vehicles. Brake lines rust and hoses crack, split and tear. Master cylinders go bad, brake boosters fail, wheel cylinders fail, proportioning valves fail, hydroboost units go bad etc, etc. Not a rare occurrence in any way. I'm a Ford technician at a dealership, I see failed brake systems almost daily.
I did say that the system should be maintained. Sorry, but I have to say that most of the failures you described that you were personally involved in appear to be caused by poor maintenance, poor inspections, or some combination of the two. My guess is that this is also what you experience as a service professional with cars brought in to you.

Systems are redundant to a point, as others here have mentioned, and for brakes to totally go out, it would usually need someone to ignore pretty obvious wrning signs.

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It's a good idea to know how to stop the car without the service brake.
On this we agree.

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