NO, Subarus don't have problems with their headgaskets!!! (Fake News) - Page 6 - Subaru Outback - Subaru Outback Forums
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post #51 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-24-2017, 09:24 PM
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The reason the Subaru head gaskets fail is because of movement between the block and the head. This movement eventually breaks down the coating on the gaskets. Have you ever noticed that the gaskets fail on the bottom and when you look at them, you can clearly see that the gaskets coating deteriorates in this area

The exhaust exits out the lower portion of the head. This makes it "hotter" than the block in that area. This results in disproportionate expansion and contraction between the block and the head. The disproportionate expansion causes movement in this area. The slight movement over time abraids and tears away the gasket coating. I also think the six bolt design allows for more movement than an engine that has more fastener points.

One key to reducing this type of head gasket wear is having the head machined with equipment capable of a high level of smoothness that matches the factory finish. Roughness in the finish increases the wear. Not all machine shops are capable of this type of finish.

This type of movement wear is also a problem on engines that have cast iron blocks and aluminum heads because of the different expansion rates of the two metals. Some manufacturers do not recommend machining their cylinder heads because of the difficulty in achieving the finish required to prevent head gasket wear.

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post #52 of 73 (permalink) Old 05-24-2017, 11:06 PM
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During the research phase before buying the Outback I stumbled across an article that went into details about the common head gasket failure. The article went in to more detail than I can remember but in general different metals were used for the block and the head which expanded at different rates when heated which led to premature wear and the common failure mode.


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post #53 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-10-2017, 03:28 PM
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(not to wake the dead thread here, stumbled on it searching for other stuff, but...)

Don't worry guys, I'm not heading for another set of gaskets, simply because I'm too stubborn to let it happen...
but I can vouch for the incredible pickiness and weird issues we're liable to come across in the cooling systems on these cars. Bad cooling = overheat. Overheat = risk of popping a gasket. I've got an H6 and burned up HG's a few years ago, but that was likely due to extreme overheating by the prior owner.

On the engine that's in there now I've gone probably 50k miles since it's been put in, at least. I've had some overheat situations, but rectified/monitored them. Interestingly enough, during the course of diagnosing some overheating issues that ended up being an issue with air getting pulled back into the loop, I had a (Subaru) technician report a couple of times that my HG's were burned up. Not the case. ECU numbers are too pretty on the monitor (assuming his dx of a breach between coolant passages and combustion chamber).

Putting my H6 experience/bias aside, I'm on the side of "the older gasket design wasn't quite up to par with the engine design", since most of the ones I've seen that have been fixed up have been holding up, assuming the owners are keeping up on other stuff and not letting things get too hot, because that'll blow 'em out on any vehicle.

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post #54 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-10-2017, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by botenredwolf View Post
(not to wake the dead thread here, stumbled on it searching for other stuff, but...)

Don't worry guys, I'm not heading for another set of gaskets, simply because I'm too stubborn to let it happen...
but I can vouch for the incredible pickiness and weird issues we're liable to come across in the cooling systems on these cars. Bad cooling = overheat. Overheat = risk of popping a gasket. I've got an H6 and burned up HG's a few years ago, but that was likely due to extreme overheating by the prior owner.

On the engine that's in there now I've gone probably 50k miles since it's been put in, at least. I've had some overheat situations, but rectified/monitored them. Interestingly enough, during the course of diagnosing some overheating issues that ended up being an issue with air getting pulled back into the loop, I had a (Subaru) technician report a couple of times that my HG's were burned up. Not the case. ECU numbers are too pretty on the monitor (assuming his dx of a breach between coolant passages and combustion chamber).

Putting my H6 experience/bias aside, I'm on the side of "the older gasket design wasn't quite up to par with the engine design", since most of the ones I've seen that have been fixed up have been holding up, assuming the owners are keeping up on other stuff and not letting things get too hot, because that'll blow 'em out on any vehicle.
yours was one of the earliest EZ30D,..despite having MLS head gaskets, maybe a case of growing pains in that first US spec year. (or so others have said here,)

but when I think of yours, I also think of how your previous owner put junk champion plugs down one side of the engine, and then left the old NGKs in the other. ...(maybe the beer / the pot were setting in making for tiredness,...or the meth lab was just finishing a nice batch,..

.but work stopped...and then you got it ).

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post #55 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-10-2017, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleeye View Post
yours was one of the earliest EZ30D,..despite having MLS head gaskets, maybe a case of growing pains in that first US spec year. (or so others have said here,)

but when I think of yours, I also think of how your previous owner put junk champion plugs down one side of the engine, and then left the old NGKs in the other. ...(maybe the beer / the pot were setting in making for tiredness,...or the meth lab was just finishing a nice batch,..

.but work stopped...and then you got it ).
Who knows, the guy seems like a fairly competent dude as a person, but I don't even know what was going on with the work on that thing. I just know I'm still getting big ass bubbles in the cooling system and I still can't figure out where they're coming from. At least none of the overheats lasted long or were too high (nothing pegged, but quite higher up on the needle), but it's still annoying. EZ30 still kicking ass and taking names though, I'll say that much, just passed 190k miles the other day.

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post #56 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-10-2017, 04:14 PM
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Who knows, the guy seems like a fairly competent dude as a person, but I don't even know what was going on with the work on that thing. I just know I'm still getting big ass bubbles in the cooling system and I still can't figure out where they're coming from. At least none of the overheats lasted long or were too high (nothing pegged, but quite higher up on the needle), but it's still annoying. EZ30 still kicking ass and taking names though, I'll say that much, just passed 190k miles the other day.
get a cooling system pressure test, hopefully a line that is rusted or slightly cracked / loose rubber line sucking fresh air.

...vs. exhaust gasses from a head gasket leak on the 2nd engine.

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post #57 of 73 (permalink) Old 09-10-2017, 04:20 PM
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get a cooling system pressure test, hopefully a line that is rusted or slightly cracked / loose rubber line sucking fresh air.

...vs. exhaust gasses from a head gasket leak on the 2nd engine.
I don't think it's a breach into the combustion chamber, I'd probably see that on the monitor in the car (RomRaider Logger display) as one bank running weird compared to the other. Within 1.5% of each other at idle on long and short term trims. I'm almost thinking micro-crack or something in the heater core. If I start the car and the heater was engaged at startup, entire windshield immediately fogs over and won't go away unless I run the AC. Can also hear a distinctly liquid sounding noise after startup for a while that's somewhere behind the dash mostly on the passenger side. Wondering if there's a tiny hole/crack/something in the unit itself or the hoses leading into it. No visible dripping on the trans housing though, so I don't think it's the hoses. It's weird, but there's air getting in somewhere. All the metal piping was replaced in warranty after the engine swap since we discovered a leak/bubbles inside that warranty period, which has long since expired.

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post #58 of 73 (permalink) Old 10-06-2017, 08:35 PM
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I had a (Subaru) technician report a couple of times that my HG's were burned up. Not the case. ECU numbers are too pretty on the monitor (assuming his dx of a breach between coolant passages and combustion chamber).
Are you saying that you can eliminate the possibility of a head gasket by looking at the data you are seeing from the ECM?
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post #59 of 73 (permalink) Old 10-06-2017, 09:04 PM
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That would be something more in @eagleeye territory, but with my situation, a breach into the combustion chamber would really toss off the numbers on the side with the breach, as the A/F sensor wouldn't know what to make of coolant coming down into the exhaust. Read that way on my old engine.

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post #60 of 73 (permalink) Old 10-06-2017, 09:26 PM
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Are you saying that you can eliminate the possibility of a head gasket by looking at the data you are seeing from the ECM?
I watched one EZ30D heat up from cold, and as soon as the engine reached opperating temp it has misfires on 1/3/5 and the exhaust dumped coolant vapor.

this is ultra rare for this engine to do that, ...more like a old turd EJ25D of 96-99.

this one in particular was a USDM 2004 with 245,000 miles on it.

it was not mine, just one I saw on craigslist. poor guy got it off a crooked used car lot. I wish I was running a rom-raider log on it, (edit: by the time I saw it,...the current owner had changed the water pump,...body was immaculate, but leaking coolant into the exhaust = I told him this was ripe for a JDM used engine, or a part out,...in a few more weeks he sold it for $600 or so)..

________

I wonder if some with head gasket leaks will show things asymmetrical or odd in the cylinders. like pressures or near misfires. but I have not read enough here to see if anyone running rom-raider has pinpointed head gasket leaks with it.

@traildogck? ever read of a internal head gasket leak detected by XRT or rom-raider ?

I asked @plain OM recently when he was looking at data 2.5 N/A from 2007/2008, and he saw no descrepincy,...and this was just before the owner was starting al head gasket job for a Ej253. (edit: that was having cat converter problems too).


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