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2020 Outback Limited XT Black on Ivory
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Discussion Starter #21
I was driving on a highway at night, very windy, entering into the So Cal area. Probably going about 60-70mph, fairly clear highway. I was using the adaptive cruise control at the largest distance setting for the car in front of me. My front braking was turned off (I always turn it off). A half car size tumbleweed blew across the road in front of me from one side to the other - between the car I was locked to and my car. My car slammed on the brakes for a split second - the tumbleweed must have confused the adaptive cruise control. It just was for a second, and then it continued on, albiet a bit slower. There was a delay, and the tumbleweed blew across pretty quick, but it must have confused the adaptive control that thought the car was way further ahead and suddenly something was right in front of me for a split second.
Yea, I can see where that would scare the heck out of a person. Especially since it was a "false alarm" ( and there is always the real chance of getting rear ended as a result).
That said, it's a good system that seems to work as designed. Had that tumble weed been a kid on a bike, crossing deer etc, I would be gratefull to have it come on.
FWIW, mine did activate once. I had jerk in a big yellow Hummer get tired of waiting and bolted out across traffic/ my lane (from the pot shop parking lot) about 30' in front of me. I was doing about 35 and the brakes came instantly / before I could reach the peddle. I stopped 3-4 feet short of T-boning the idiot . Fortunatly, the guy behind me was not on my tail.
 

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This honestly sounds like a good thing? Why is that the thing that caused you to turn it off? If something bounds in front of the car, I definitely want it to slam on the brakes. A tumbleweed is harmless, of course, but the system doesn’t have a density sensor - I doubt even a Tesla would get that right.
@pgrey
@RocketMan20

I think you all are missing the part where I said there was a DELAY.
The tumbleweed blew across and it was already off the road BEFORE the car slammed on the brakes. There was NO braking as it passed by in front of me.
It all happened fast but it was about a 3-4 lane highway.
To be clear, if that had been a life form, it would have been run down.
 

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2020 Subaru Outback Limited XT Abyss Blue Pearl, Gray Leather Interior
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I’ve been a little underwhelmed with the Harman Kardon system that came in my 2020 Onyx. It’s not that it’s horrible ( and it is a whole lot better than the base system) but I’ve found the sound a little flat and dominated by the center dash midrange driver. To band-aide this effect , I’ve been running the fader back to the rear footwell and turning down the midrange a couple of notches . Both actions seem to help deemphasize the center dash speaker a bit but the music still lacked “fullness” IMHO. However, with my Equalizer and Fader resetting to Zero every other start, this was clearly not a long term solution anyway.
Long story made short, I have been playing around with covering the center speaker to dampen the sound a bit.
I just ordered this soft silicone dash cell phone holder /organizer and dropped it on the dash today.
I can tell you that I immediatly heard the difference . I can still hear the center speaker but it's been tamed. I can now here the corner dash speakers clearer and the sound stage tends to be spread accross the entire dash vs centered. Additionally, I can hear a difference in percieved seperation and dimention. (This is with the fader and midrange EZ settings zero'd as there seems to be no need to dampen midrange any more.)
Anyway, It's not a new set of speakers but to my ears it's a noteable improvement that I hope is lasting .

BTW, the accessory itself sucks at holding my cell phone (cased Moto 6 ) but is pretty handy for holding a couple of pairs of glasses and misc small things. It's gummy enough so it seems to stay put without having to use the two glue patchs that come covered on the bottom. Given our limited driver accesable storage, I think it's a good addition anyway.
$13 well spent.




View attachment 480874
You don't have the HK system on the Onyx. It's only available in the Limited and Touring trims (and Limited XT and Touring XT trims).
 

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2020 Outback Limited XT Black on Ivory
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Discussion Starter #24
You don't have the HK system on the Onyx. It's only available in the Limited and Touring trims (and Limited XT and Touring XT trims).
Jeezz, not sure what I was thinking and /or why I didn't catch that. I have a Limited XT (as in my signiture) not an Onyx. FWIW, still no issues at all with eyesight interfearance. I think this is a keeper.
 

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@RocketMan20
Want to say thank you. I just got this today, and was just in the car blasting tunes I know, experimenting a bit. This definitely does make a bit of an improvement - giving me back a bit of the imaging I would like, taking the emphasis off the center. The fact that it does this and also serves as a place to put my keys is just awesome because since my 2013 push button, I am notorious for not grabbing them out of the car if they arent in my pocket. This will put them right in view to remind me.
It def helps with the sound problem on the HK system. I wish the bottom was denser/thicker even, but it is a def improvement and has double use! Great find!
 

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Discussion Starter #26
@RocketMan20
Want to say thank you. I just got this today, and was just in the car blasting tunes I know, experimenting a bit. This definitely does make a bit of an improvement - giving me back a bit of the imaging I would like, taking the emphasis off the center. The fact that it does this and also serves as a place to put my keys is just awesome because since my 2013 push button, I am notorious for not grabbing them out of the car if they arent in my pocket. This will put them right in view to remind me.
It def helps with the sound problem on the HK system. I wish the bottom was denser/thicker even, but it is a def improvement and has double use! Great find!
Great to here it worked for you, Sequoia! I know you had the same gripes with the sound field in your Touring as I did in my Limited. I also know you have a crittical ear for such things so your confirmation of improvement is especially meanigful. What also surprised me is that the system is sounding pretty good in the flat position and there is no more need to fade everything rear.
As you say, the fact that it adds a little easily accesable storage is icing on the cake. ( I had a dash try built into the van I traded and missed this feature allot. This might be the best $13 I've spent to date on this ride
 

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Great to here it worked for you, Sequoia! I know you had the same gripes with the sound field in your Touring as I did in my Limited. I also know you have a crittical ear for such things so your confirmation of improvement is especially meanigful. What also surprised me is that the system is sounding pretty good in the flat position and there is no more need to fade everything rear.
As you say, the fact that it adds a little easily accesable storage is icing on the cake. ( I had a dash try built into the van I traded and missed this feature allot. This might be the best $13 I've spent to date on this ride
There is a definite difference, subtle perhaps, but as you and I spoke, about disconnecting that speaker, it is part of what I don't like about the system. It's strange to me the center speaker became a "thing" in all cars (gimmicky in my opinion), and my (limited) understanding of it is to create more of a "stereo" imaging for EACH front passenger? but I highly disagree that this is the positive result now that I have a car with it. I get the DSP phasing location tricks that are in place, this stuff is not new and pretty refined now, I had the pleasure as a youth of working in the mid 90s on some of the earliest mixes taking old albums and remixing them in a DTS format (surround sound) with this guy (legendary record producer who was on the forefront of the DSP/surround mixing for music). People were really excited about this tech then, I remember all these Record Company big wigs coming in to demo what he was doing, but it didn't end up taking off with consumers like they had planned, for various reasons. There was a push again in the 2000s for surround sound music, some were releasing their album on dual side DVDs with the surround version on the B side, some of you may remember, but lo and behold, albums are still mixing in stereo for the most part all these years later. The DSP stuff they are doing in cars with the center speaker and trying to fake more of a "surround" sound is just annoying to me. It washes out all the imaging intended in the mix. Just my humble opinion. I wish at LEAST Subaru would program in some control over these things in the system so we could listen how we WANT to listen to our music.
(steps off soap box)

See? All that and I didnt even mention that new to outback function which shall not be named. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Just an update: So I have had this thing sitting on the dash for about 2 weeks now. What I've noticed is:
  • It hasn't moved a 1/4". Despite not using the supplied sticky tabs. It just stays put right where I left it.
  • I have had no issues with the Eyesight system as releated to the tray or it's contents ( even with a couple of pairs of glasses I keep piled into it.)
  • I'm actually preffering to run the system now with the Fader set to factory centerd and the EQ set at/near factory. This is a great thing since the system still remembers my profile settings maybe only 50% of the time. ( I now run my Profile settings at 0,0,+2 just so I can keep track.) It's a major headach gone!
  • For the first time in 4 months of ownership, I find myself "noticing" how "full" certain tracts sound on the HK system .
  • Still sucks at holding my cell phone though :giggle:
481564
 

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Just an update: So I have had this thing sitting on the dash for about 2 weeks now. What I've noticed is:
  • It hasn't moved a 1/4". Despite not using the supplied sticky tabs. It just stays put right where I left it.
  • I have had no issues with the Eyesight system as releated to the tray or it's contents ( even with a couple of pairs of glasses I keep piled into it.)
  • I'm actually preffering to run the system now with the Fader set to factory centerd and the EQ set at/near factory. This is a great thing since the system still remembers my profile settings maybe only 50% of the time. ( I now run my Profile settings at 0,0,+2 just so I can keep track.) It's a major headach gone!
  • For the first time in 4 months of ownership, I find myself "noticing" how "full" certain tracts sound on the HK system .
  • Still sucks at holding my cell phone though :giggle:
View attachment 481564
Mine hasnt moved at all either, and I am not using the stickers on the bottom (Which will likely just melt in a month or so). I love it. My keys proved to rattle while driving in there so I am not putting them in there now but it still works to set my sunglasses down and other things. (I use my upper glasses case for something else so no room for the sunglasses there.
Also no issues with the eyesight - oh wait, I turn that off. ;) Actually I just finally found out how to turn off the rear braking too last week - which made me very happy.
 

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@pgrey
@RocketMan20

I think you all are missing the part where I said there was a DELAY.
The tumbleweed blew across and it was already off the road BEFORE the car slammed on the brakes. There was NO braking as it passed by in front of me.
It all happened fast but it was about a 3-4 lane highway.
To be clear, if that had been a life form, it would have been run down.
Yeah, I did miss that part. I also saw this, and forgot to respond, busy day that day...

Until these systems get more sophisticated (more wide-angle cameras, and better coding, ideally cross-manufacturer), there are certainly physics-limitations, that cannot be overcome.
A tumbleweed's motion is a bit different, than say a deer moving at 20mph, or a ped stepping off the sidewalk, at 2mph, but still, there's physics, if it can't see it in time, in order to make-a-difference in your impact speed (with the object entering the pathway), it would be ideal if it simply didn't react, or just beeped. There's just no way if you're traveling 60, and the tumbleweed/motorcycle/whatever comes across your path, say at 50, that the physics are going to allow for much of a difference in impact.
I bet though, that these are all coded to respond anyway, because if they don't, a car OEM could be held liable, for disregarding the object as "un-escape-able", it's a tricky situation.

If something comes from around a blind corner, at cross-speed, even multiple cams wouldn't be able to manage this. But, the tumbleweed thing is "avoidable", to some degree, given better h/w and s/w (again, for better/worse in that case).
If the camera can register the object, say in 50ms, send the signal in another 3-5ms, and is processed in maybe 300ms, then apply brakes in 500ms, you're still braking in <1s, which is pretty good. No human (perhaps very few animals on the planet really) can respond that quickly, or even see a lot of stuff that an IR/visual camera array can (obviously the IR cam is less likely to see the tumbleweed, but would see the deer/person/raccoon/whatever).
This type of tech is evolving, fast, and would evolve a LOT faster, if manufacturers were more collaborative, my pipe-dream anyway; even Tesla and other high-end systems would be significantly better, today, if they worked together. I bet Tesla would sign up for this (full collaboration) in a heartbeat, but very few other OEMs would, unfortunately...
 

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This type of tech is evolving, fast, and would evolve a LOT faster, if manufacturers were more collaborative, my pipe-dream anyway; even Tesla and other high-end systems would be significantly better, today, if they worked together. I bet Tesla would sign up for this (full collaboration) in a heartbeat, but very few other OEMs would, unfortunately...
You make an interesting point. In some ways, competition drives progress a lot, and in some ways, as you point out it slows it down.
I have a scientist friend who talks a lot about how the newer generation of scientists are a lot more open to collaborating than the older generations. Even taking money out of the equation, the older generations have a "I worked for my knowledge, others have to do the same".
Corporations are still stuck in this older way of thinking, obviously with profits and licensing being so important to them. Say what you want about Tesla and Elon Musk but there is definitely a lot more forward thinking going on there.
I wonder if this will change a bit as the younger generations start taking over everything.
 

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You make an interesting point. In some ways, competition drives progress a lot, and in some ways, as you point out it slows it down.
I have a scientist friend who talks a lot about how the newer generation of scientists are a lot more open to collaborating than the older generations. Even taking money out of the equation, the older generations have a "I worked for my knowledge, others have to do the same".
Corporations are still stuck in this older way of thinking, obviously with profits and licensing being so important to them. Say what you want about Tesla and Elon Musk but there is definitely a lot more forward thinking going on there.
I wonder if this will change a bit as the younger generations start taking over everything.
One can hope.

Much of my career has been spent designing/building/testing standards, for things like USB, PCI, and many, many other buses and devices. Driving common standards, at least in theory, should drive compatibility, which at least enables collaboration, to a large degree.

I would truly like to work on a consortium to this end, perhaps championed by Tesla/Musk, but involving broad industry collaboration, it's very obvious that the needle could be moved, significantly, saving lives, property, etc. Nothing like this has been formed though, to-date, mostly for the reasons you mention, corporate greed among the worst of them.
I hope this will sway, with younger generations, but I think it'll continue as-current, for quite some time; there are many younger business-people and attorneys working for those same companies now, being trained by the old-guard of sorts. Maybe they'll decide they want to break-the-mold, and change things, or maybe they'll decide they just want a giant bonus, it remains to be seen (my work has always been about working for the right group/direction, I could've made a lot more cash, by going other directions, and probably be retired long ago...).

I am fairly surprised that the insurance companies haven't tried to do this, although they're a different type of corporate-profit-entity, I'm not sure how their P/E fits into more/less loss, I bet they have to have some appreciable loss, to be sustainable.

Cool discussion, BTW, perhaps more philosophical to some degree, but still hitting on the technical side!
 
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