[Novablue]

Copy and pasting the data was quicker for me than opening a host account for the file. I plan to do 6 total analysis' on my subie and I'll set up a host at that time, totally unnecessary but I'm a numbers kind of guy. I'll keep all updates here till I do the final 6 then repost if it makes sense. Went through Blackstone because they make it easy with the packages they set up for you.

First number is my engine / second number is universal average for this engine with 4600 miles. This test the oil had 3871 miles on it, still factory stuff. About 90% of that driving was all 60-70mph highway driving. My schedule at work has changed and I'm now driving 75% stop and go and 25% highway speeds. I plan to keep the oil till 7500 miles at this point but if the color degrades too much I might change sooner. I'm close to 5k miles today.



Subaru 2.5L 4-CylMAKE/MODEL: OIL TYPE & GRADE: Subaru 5W/30
UNIGasoline (Unleaded)FUEL TYPE: OIL USE INTERVAL: 3,871 Miles

COMMENTS
DAVID: Don't be alarmed by the high wear and silicon. The metals are from new parts wearing in and silicon is from sealants and sand-casted parts. Both are perfectly normal in new engines like this one.
Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 4,600 miles on the oil. This engine should look that good after a couple of oil changes. The viscosity was mildly thin for 5W/30, but that's harmless. The TBN was strong at 3.3 showing lots of active additive; less than 1.0 is low. We'd change this oil when it's got 5,000 miles on it.

ELEMENTS IN PARTS PER MILLION MI/HR on Oil 3,871
UNIVERSAL AVERAGES MI/HR on Unit 3,871 UNIT /
Sample Date 05/20/12
Make Up Oil Added 0 qts
ALUMINUM 6 / 3
CHROMIUM 0 / 1
IRON 18 / 8
COPPER 18 / 4
LEAD 1 / 3
TIN 0 / 1
MOLYBDENUM 109 / 71
NICKEL 0 / 0
MANGANESE 3 / 3
SILVER 0 / 0
TITANIUM 0 / 0
POTASSIUM 6 / 2
BORON 155 / 49
SILICON 97 / 12
SODIUM 6 / 35
CALCIUM 2067 / 2212
MAGNESIUM 11 / 129
PHOSPHORUS 720 / 713
ZINC 800 / 852
BARIUM 10 / 0

PROPERTIES
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 54.6 / 55-63
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 8.66 / 8.8-11.3
Flashpoint in °F 410 / >365
Fuel % <0.5 / <2.0
Antifreeze % 0.0 / 0.0
Water % 0.0 / <0.1
Insolubles % 0.2 / <0.6
TBN 3.3 / >1.0

* THIS COLUMN APPLIES ONLY TO THE CURRENT SAMPLE
416 E. PETTIT AVE. FORT WAYNE, IN 46806 (260) 744-2380 Blackstone Labs

©COPYRIGHT BLACKSTONE LABORATORIES 2012 LIABILITY LIMITED TO COST OF ANALYSIS

 

[number 41]

What kind've oil did you replace the factory fill with?

 

[AWDFTW]

Looks good to me for a under 4k mile engine.

 

[Novablue]

I did not replace the oil yet but I plan to use Mobile 1.

 

[TooSlick]

Looks about like I'd expect for the factory fill. Most of the Moly is from assembly lube paste and this will dissipate over time, as will the silicone leaching from seals & gaskets. Based on my experience it may take 20k-30k miles for the silicone leaching to stop and for those levels to stabilize.

On a negative note, the oil did shear down to a 20 weight in less than 4000 miles - minimum viscosity for a 5w-30 @ 100C is 9.3 centistokes. If you're not seeing any significant oil consumption (that would indicate the engine's still wearing in), I'd change this oil and put the Mobil 1 in there.

TS

 

[4wheeldog]

On a negative note, the oil did shear down to a 20 weight in less than 4000 miles - minimum viscosity for a 5w-30 @ 100C is 9.3 centistokes. If you're not seeing any significant oil consumption (that would indicate the engine's still wearing in), I'd change this oil and put the Mobil 1 in there.

TS

I wonder if the factory fill is actually a 5w/20? 3800 miles is awfully quick for the viscosity to shear a full grade. If it were a synthetic 5w/20, it would make more sense.

 

[AWDFTW]

Factory is a 5w30 made by Idemitsu. Most any API SM or SN rated oil with the "energy conserving" classification will shear to a 5w20 by 5k miles.

 

[Novablue]

Looks about like I'd expect for the factory fill. Most of the Moly is from assembly lube paste and this will dissipate over time, as will the silicone leaching from seals & gaskets. Based on my experience it may take 20k-30k miles for the silicone leaching to stop and for those levels to stabilize.

On a negative note, the oil did shear down to a 20 weight in less than 4000 miles - minimum viscosity for a 5w-30 @ 100C is 9.3 centistokes. If you're not seeing any significant oil consumption (that would indicate the engine's still wearing in), I'd change this oil and put the Mobil 1 in there.

TS

No notable oil consumption at all using the dipstick method. I always check my oil the same way after the same amount of time during a fuel stop. I have my "born date" as 2/12 so I'm not quite at 7 mo. At 4727 miles now and I'm monitoring the color for now. It's slightly brown now and while color is only one indicator it's a decent one. I'm really curious to see what the oil looks like at 7500 miles since Subaru says that is the change interval. Living in WA I can't say any of my driving could possibly fall in the "severe" category.

This is the longest I've ever been able to go on oil with out it going almost black on me. My two previous cars were a 2001 Jeep 4.0L and a 77 Nova 305/350 (the 305 died, so I...ahhh, upgraded). This is also the first time in my life I've been spending more than 30 min get to and from work so I'm sure the 90% hwy driving has a lot to do with it (ok fine and the different engine).

 

[TooSlick]

With a new engine you're going to get more contamination into the crankcase as parts wear in and the rings fully seat. I don't see the point in pushing the FF out to 7500 miles, although I'd certainly have no problem running Mobil 1 that far for subsequent changes. I ran my FF out to 6000 miles, which was longer than I intended and it seemed pretty beat up when I drained it.

It's very common for a 5w-30 petroleum oil to shear out of grade in 3000-4000 miles. A 10w-30 with less polymer might do marginally better. You can run a 0w-30 synthetic in these 2.5L, non-turbo engines to get the best performance & it will still be very shear
stable.

FWIW, I'd use a lower cutoff of 2.0 on the TBN from a Blackstone analysis. This way you still have some residual detergent & the engine stays super clean inside. You can also use 25% of the baseline TBN as the condemnation limit & this works fine too.

TS

 

[bluesubie]

I'm a little puzzled by the low moly from this uoa.

I've seen some uoa's on the factory fill up at around 1,000 ppm's on some Subaru factory fill uoa's. This is from the assembly lube and from the factory fill Idemitsu oil. I have an email from Idemitsu about high moly in the FF. I wonder if SIA doesn't use Idemitsu or maybe the FF is different between Japan and Indiana. But are the Outback's even using Idemitsu as the FF?

There was actually an article on the old Subaru Tech Info site that some n/a engines were using 20 weights as factory fill although even the n/a's can shear a 30 grade to a 20 grade in a few thousand miles.

-Dennis

 

[TooSlick]

My 2006 Outback had 310 ppm of moly in the FF oil I tested after 4600 miles. It's possible they have several suppliers of oil for new engines. This particular oil also showed quite a bit of boron which was not in my '06 sump.

TS

 

[bluesubie]

That makes sense. I do recall reading at nasioc that there were a couple of different minerals oils used in Indiana.

-Dennis

 

[Novablue]

Ok I finally figured out how to post this stuff...

3871 miles oil was still clear

5432 miles (yes I did that on purpose) oil very dark so I changed it


I now have mobile 1 with about 4k on it. Will be updating this once I change again at 7500 miles (about 3500 to go, about two months)

 

[rico567]

Ok I finally figured out how to post this stuff...

3871 miles oil was still clear

5432 miles (yes I did that on purpose) oil very dark so I changed it


I now have mobile 1 with about 4k on it. Will be updating this once I change again at 7500 miles (about 3500 to go, about two months)

Color change in oil isn't any particular indicator of what shape the oil's in. 50 years ago, it may have been all a person had to go by, but these days, if you really want to know how far your oil can go, see the address in the OP, i.e., send for a sample bottle from Blackstone Labs (it's free) and get a UOA done. I finally did it after fretting about whether I could get by with yearly OCs in my pickup, which is being driven <5K miles per year. I paid for the UOA, and it told me I needn't have worried- the oil (M1 5W-30) was fine.

Dark oil may be just an indicator that the oil is doing its job, e.g, diesel oil goes from new to completely black in <50 miles, and yet the newer oils have change intervals of ≥10,000 miles. It's just the oil picking up the soot from diesel combustion.

 

[Novablue]

Color change in oil isn't any particular indicator of what shape the oil's in. 50 years ago, it may have been all a person had to go by, but these days, if you really want to know how far your oil can go, see the address in the OP, i.e., send for a sample bottle from Blackstone Labs (it's free) and get a UOA done.

In the restaurant, oil color meant the oil was breaking down and we needed to stop using it now. I was mistaken in believing that oil color applied to cars too in the same way.

But I'm learning.

You do realize... I am the OP and I linked the UOA reports...right?

 

[Novablue]

update

UPDATE!!!

10k total miles, 5k on 5w30 Mobile 1

 

[Novablue]

Update.

12k mile on car now, 7450 on this change. Report is rather boring actually.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4zBKINGbuixbG9GRE5rSVNPZ0E/edit?usp=sharing

 

[TooSlick]

Dave,

Looks fine...plenty of oil life after 7500 miles. The silicon is mainly chemical leaching from seals & gaskets. It will dissipate with the next few oil changes.

How do like the thicker, rear sway bar? Thinking of doing this too....


TS

 

[AWDFTW]

Update.

12k mile on car now, 7450 on this change. Report is rather boring actually.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4zBKINGbuixbG9GRE5rSVNPZ0E/edit?usp=sharing

No worries with this report. Easily do the 7500 miles required by warranty. After warranty, likely in the 9k range, maybe 10k bedpending on how that TBN holds out.

 

[TooSlick]

There are a few odd bits of data in these last two reports:

1) You went 50% further on the same batch of oil, yet the TBN didn't drop and you didn't add any fresh oil between tests?

2) The flashpoint of the same used oil improved dramatically in the last test. So there was something rather different in how the two samples were collected?

In order to get consistent data, you need consistent sampling techniques. I sample using a "Fumoto" drain valve with the engine fully warmed up. I allow about 1/2 quart of oil to drain, then position the bottle & take the sample. I'm probably getting oil near the bottom of the oil pan. If anything this adds a degree of conservatism, since this oil is a bit more contaminated then the mid level of the sump.